The unsolvable mystery of Reality Itself

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surreptitious57
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Re: The unsolvable mystery of Reality Itself

Post by surreptitious57 »

Hobbes Choice wrote:
Reality is and always shall be that which each of us construct it to be and modify with fresh experiences
Do not confuse interpretations of reality with reality itself. It is simply what is and transcends interpretation. It existed long before we
ever did and will carry on existing long after we have become extinct and what we think about it is of no importance. Other than to us
but only in the very short time that we are here. Maybe other intelligent species if they exist but they are only passing through as well
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Re: The unsolvable mystery of Reality Itself

Post by Hobbes' Choice »

surreptitious57 wrote: Fri Sep 01, 2017 8:24 pm
Hobbes Choice wrote:
Reality is and always shall be that which each of us construct it to be and modify with fresh experiences
Do not confuse interpretations of reality with reality itself. It is simply what is and transcends interpretation. It existed long before we
ever did and will carry on existing long after we have become extinct and what we think about it is of no importance. Other than to us
but only in the very short time that we are here. Maybe other intelligent species if they exist but they are only passing through as well
"Reality itself" - a completely absurd notion. It does not and cannot be conceived. Our perceptions have to be partial.
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Re: The unsolvable mystery of Reality Itself

Post by Hobbes' Choice »

Dontaskme wrote: Fri Sep 01, 2017 3:42 pm
Hobbes' Choice wrote: Fri Sep 01, 2017 2:34 pm
Reality is and always shall be that which each of us construct it to be, and modify with fresh experiences. Ever changing, never static. A moving target diachronically impossible to pin down.
That which is known, to be ever changing, never static, impossible to pin down is not a mystery.

That which is KNOWN is pretty much all there is to know, however, that which knows the known is an unsolvable mystery.

I think this is kind of what we are talking about.

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What do you mean "that which knows the known is an unsolvable mystery.'
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Re: The unsolvable mystery of Reality Itself

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Hobbes' Choice wrote: Fri Sep 01, 2017 10:47 pm "Reality itself" - a completely absurd notion. It does not and cannot be conceived. Our perceptions have to be partial.
Pointing to the unknown using known concepts is an absurd notion. So the notion of ''Reality itself'' is a conception conceived in the act of perceiving as a perceived perception...aka conceived aka become known as a concept.

That which is perceived, is conceived in the same instant in the immediate unborn unknown now, however, what is known now is already in past tense, in a memory...because there is no gap between a now and another now for a ''knower'' to make the claim ''I am the KNOWER'',

....all actions in reality are seamless without beginning nor end. Beginnings and endings are CONCEPTS KNOWN...AKA reactions after the event, reflections.

HERENOW / NOWHERE there is no room for A perceiver to perceive itself directly in the instant, it can only reflect upon itself as past tense, in a dead memory, and is why I often use the terminology ...''welcome to the zombie jamboree'' ... which I find quite amusing, IT'S the cosmic joke the sages speak of, but not all egos find that funny.

Relatively speaking, all known things are integral parts of the whole that cannot be divided, known by the only knowing there is, which is consciousness. Consciousness can never be known or divided, only the mind is born not you. The mind is thought, and thought divides, albeit illusory.

To solve the mystery of reality one would have to step outside of their consciousness to stand apart, and no one has so far pulled off that trick.

That there are parts is the illusion, parts are concepts,or thought things which appear to divide and separate. In reality no such reality exists. Take away all concepts and thought, and what's left is absolute reality.

Any relative notion in regard to the absolute is the absurd.

The Absolute is the only reality, and it's here right now, nowhere.


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Hobbes' Choice wrote: Fri Sep 01, 2017 10:47 pmWhat do you mean "that which knows the known is an unsolvable mystery.'
Same answer I've given above, also applies to this query.

It's a divine mystery how a phantom can apparently be a knower of a reality where the phantom appears to know it is alive, that is indeed the most powerful unsolvable mystery known to man.

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Something here would have to be separately apart from the whole to be able to look and examine itself in order to solve that mystery. :idea: :?:

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It's the mystery that keeps life exciting,ever fresh and brand spanking new in every moment. If life was no mystery anymore, it would be game over, there would be no more incentive to even bother getting out of bed in the morning, and unfortunately, there are many of us who already feel just like that, there are some people who have no incentive to live, and the reason for this is because they have all their life habitually lived off of other peoples old and worn out ideas that have been passed on to them from one generation to the next, and these ideas have stuck so passionately that the thought that they could have one original thought of their own doesn't even register with them. They are so far stuck in their own dug out grooves they seem unable to get out.

.

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ken
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Re: The unsolvable mystery of Reality Itself

Post by ken »

Dontaskme wrote: Sat Sep 02, 2017 8:04 am
Hobbes' Choice wrote: Fri Sep 01, 2017 10:47 pm "Reality itself" - a completely absurd notion. It does not and cannot be conceived. Our perceptions have to be partial.
Pointing to the unknown using known concepts is an absurd notion. So the notion of ''Reality itself'' is a conception conceived in the act of perceiving as a perceived perception...aka conceived aka become known as a concept.

That which is perceived, is conceived in the same instant in the immediate unborn unknown now, however, what is known now is already in past tense, in a memory...because there is no gap between a now and another now for a ''knower'' to make the claim ''I am the KNOWER'',

....all actions in reality are seamless without beginning nor end. Beginnings and endings are CONCEPTS KNOWN...AKA reactions after the event, reflections.

HERENOW / NOWHERE there is no room for A perceiver to perceive itself directly in the instant, it can only reflect upon itself as past tense, in a dead memory, and is why I often use the terminology ...''welcome to the zombie jamboree'' ... which I find quite amusing, IT'S the cosmic joke the sages speak of, but not all egos find that funny.

Relatively speaking, all known things are integral parts of the whole that cannot be divided, known by the only knowing there is, which is consciousness. Consciousness can never be known or divided, only the mind is born not you. The mind is thought, and thought divides, albeit illusory.

To solve the mystery of reality one would have to step outside of their consciousness to stand apart,
Is that the ONLY way?

If it is, how does dontaskme KNOW this?

Did the born thoughts inside that head conceive up the idea that there is only one way to solve the, so called, "mystery" of reality?
Dontaskme wrote: Sat Sep 02, 2017 8:04 am and no one has so far pulled off that trick.
How does dontaskme, supposedly, KNOW this?
Dontaskme wrote: Sat Sep 02, 2017 8:04 amThat there are parts is the illusion, parts are concepts,or thought things which appear to divide and separate. In reality no such reality exists. Take away all concepts and thought, and what's left is absolute reality.
'Absolute reality' is the KNOWER KNOWS ALL, including who and what It IS.

Any relative notion in regard to the absolute is the absurd.
Dontaskme wrote: Sat Sep 02, 2017 8:04 amThe Absolute is the only reality, and it's here right now, nowhere.
Extremely contradictory. Can dontaskme explain the contradiction here?

Dontaskme wrote: Sat Sep 02, 2017 8:04 am
Hobbes' Choice wrote: Fri Sep 01, 2017 10:47 pmWhat do you mean "that which knows the known is an unsolvable mystery.'
Same answer I've given above, also applies to this query.

It's a divine mystery how a phantom can apparently be a knower of a reality where the phantom appears to know it is alive, that is indeed the most powerful unsolvable mystery known to man.
But contrary to dontaskme's beliefs that, so called, mystery was very easy to come to, understand and KNOW.
Dontaskme wrote: Sat Sep 02, 2017 8:04 amSomething here would have to be separately apart from the whole to be able to look and examine itself in order to solve that mystery. :idea: :?:
Not necessarily so.

WHY does dontaskme BELIEVE that that this is the ONE and ONLY WAY?

dontaskme has no idea and thus does NOT know that this is the case at all, so why does dontaskme assume this to be absolutely the truth?

The actual Truth is you just have to learn how to be able to look at and see how ALL things, besides the One, Itself, are seemingly separated and what in fact separates ALL physical things as well as be able to look at and see HOW ALL things make up and are a part of the ONE and ONLY One, which is who and what I truly am. To be able to KNOW what IS, which is the apparent mystery, is to just be in a position to be able to see, understand, and KNOW ALL. This is done by being able to have My story revealed to you. This does NOT involve in being separately apart from at all, but in fact being united with ALL. To KNOW thy Self is to be thee One with ALL.

HOW do I KNOW all of this IS because I have already done this.
Dontaskme wrote: Sat Sep 02, 2017 8:04 amIt's the mystery that keeps life exciting,ever fresh and brand spanking new in every moment. If life was no mystery anymore, it would be game over, there would be no more incentive to even bother getting out of bed in the morning,
HOW does dontaskme supposedly KNOW this?

If dontaskme has NOT had any first hand experience of solving and KNOWING ALL of Life's so called "mysteries", then how would dontaskme KNOW that this would be the outcome?

Also, did you notice that a very human perspective is being placed onto such a very large outcome?
Dontaskme wrote: Sat Sep 02, 2017 8:04 am and unfortunately, there are many of us who already feel just like that, there are some people who have no incentive to live, and the reason for this is because they have all their life habitually lived off of other peoples old and worn out ideas that have been passed on to them from one generation to the next, and these ideas have stuck so passionately that the thought that they could have one original thought of their own doesn't even register with them.
This 'living off of others' perspective and 'not being able to discover to new thoughts/ideas' seems to really shine through dontaskme and their continued past on thinking that the, so called, 'mysteries' can NOT be solved. dontaskme is so entranced in their own belief, which has obviously come from and been passed on down through other people's beliefs, that dontaskme can NOT even entertain the idea that just maybe there is another way to discover the solution to all of the so called mysteries of Life, nor can dontaskme even consider that some one has already done this. This original thought does NOT even register with dontaskme.

Dontaskme wrote: Sat Sep 02, 2017 8:04 am They are so far stuck in their own dug out grooves they seem unable to get out.

.

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Which dontaskme is proving is actually so true all the time here in this forum.
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Re: The unsolvable mystery of Reality Itself

Post by Hobbes' Choice »

Dontaskme wrote: Sat Sep 02, 2017 8:04 am
Hobbes' Choice wrote: Fri Sep 01, 2017 10:47 pm "Reality itself" - a completely absurd notion. It does not and cannot be conceived. Our perceptions have to be partial.
Pointing to the unknown using known concepts is an absurd notion. So the notion of ''Reality itself'' is a conception conceived in the act of perceiving as a perceived perception...aka conceived aka become known as a concept.

That which is perceived, is conceived in the same instant in the immediate unborn unknown now, however, what is known now is already in past tense, in a memory...because there is no gap between a now and another now for a ''knower'' to make the claim ''I am the KNOWER'',

....all actions in reality are seamless without beginning nor end. Beginnings and endings are CONCEPTS KNOWN...AKA reactions after the event, reflections.

HERENOW / NOWHERE there is no room for A perceiver to perceive itself directly in the instant, it can only reflect upon itself as past tense, in a dead memory, and is why I often use the terminology ...''welcome to the zombie jamboree'' ... which I find quite amusing, IT'S the cosmic joke the sages speak of, but not all egos find that funny.

Relatively speaking, all known things are integral parts of the whole that cannot be divided, known by the only knowing there is, which is consciousness. Consciousness can never be known or divided, only the mind is born not you. The mind is thought, and thought divides, albeit illusory.

To solve the mystery of reality one would have to step outside of their consciousness to stand apart, and no one has so far pulled off that trick.

That there are parts is the illusion, parts are concepts,or thought things which appear to divide and separate. In reality no such reality exists. Take away all concepts and thought, and what's left is absolute reality.

Any relative notion in regard to the absolute is the absurd.

The Absolute is the only reality, and it's here right now, nowhere.


.
Hobbes' Choice wrote: Fri Sep 01, 2017 10:47 pmWhat do you mean "that which knows the known is an unsolvable mystery.'
Same answer I've given above, also applies to this query.

It's a divine mystery how a phantom can apparently be a knower of a reality where the phantom appears to know it is alive, that is indeed the most powerful unsolvable mystery known to man.

.

Something here would have to be separately apart from the whole to be able to look and examine itself in order to solve that mystery. :idea: :?:

.

It's the mystery that keeps life exciting,ever fresh and brand spanking new in every moment. If life was no mystery anymore, it would be game over, there would be no more incentive to even bother getting out of bed in the morning, and unfortunately, there are many of us who already feel just like that, there are some people who have no incentive to live, and the reason for this is because they have all their life habitually lived off of other peoples old and worn out ideas that have been passed on to them from one generation to the next, and these ideas have stuck so passionately that the thought that they could have one original thought of their own doesn't even register with them. They are so far stuck in their own dug out grooves they seem unable to get out.

.

.
As I thought. No mystery at all. Reality is that which is conceived to be the case from the subject of experience, sensation and memory. The idea that reality is "in itself" is not a possible object of perception. We can agree about the existence of a tea cup by the comparison of subjective evidence. But reality cannot be shared in this way. Just does not make sense. All we have is that which knows the known, and is not mysterious being the fundamental substrate of all we can construct. Just wake up and there you are.
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Re: The unsolvable mystery of Reality Itself

Post by Dontaskme »

Hobbes' Choice wrote: Sat Sep 02, 2017 3:07 pm
As I thought. No mystery at all. Reality is that which is conceived to be the case from the subject of experience, sensation and memory.
The idea that reality is "in itself" is not a possible object of perception. We can agree about the existence of a tea cup by the comparison of subjective evidence. But reality cannot be shared in this way. Just does not make sense. All we have is that which knows the known, and is not mysterious being the fundamental substrate of all we can construct. Just wake up and there you are.
It's no mystery that you ARE by virtue of actual 'being' itself.



Who or What is being ''BEING'' ? .. can that be known?

.

What can you use to point to that which is BEING ?

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Re: The unsolvable mystery of Reality Itself

Post by Harbal »

Dontaskme wrote: Sat Sep 02, 2017 6:13 pm
What can you use to point to that which is BEING ?
A stick?
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Re: The unsolvable mystery of Reality Itself

Post by Hobbes' Choice »

Dontaskme wrote: Sat Sep 02, 2017 6:13 pm
Hobbes' Choice wrote: Sat Sep 02, 2017 3:07 pm
As I thought. No mystery at all. Reality is that which is conceived to be the case from the subject of experience, sensation and memory.
The idea that reality is "in itself" is not a possible object of perception. We can agree about the existence of a tea cup by the comparison of subjective evidence. But reality cannot be shared in this way. Just does not make sense. All we have is that which knows the known, and is not mysterious being the fundamental substrate of all we can construct. Just wake up and there you are.
It's no mystery that you ARE by virtue of actual 'being' itself.



Who or What is being ''BEING'' ? .. can that be known?

.

What can you use to point to that which is BEING ?

.
I am. That is enough.
Get over it.
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Re: The unsolvable mystery of Reality Itself

Post by Dontaskme »

Hobbes' Choice wrote: Sat Sep 02, 2017 6:44 pm
I am. That is enough.

I am is known because ''I am not'' cannot be known.

So the I am is ONE WITHOUT A SECOND

One can only be, one cannot see or know itself.


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One can only see and know itself in a reflection, as a mirror image in the form of an imageless image.

.
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Re: The unsolvable mystery of Reality Itself

Post by Harbal »

Dontaskme wrote: Sat Sep 02, 2017 7:04 pm one cannot see or know itself.
Why not? What's to stop it?
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Re: The unsolvable mystery of Reality Itself

Post by Dontaskme »

Harbal wrote: Sat Sep 02, 2017 6:34 pm
Dontaskme wrote: Sat Sep 02, 2017 6:13 pm
What can you use to point to that which is BEING ?
A stick?
A stick can point to any number of parts of a being, but can it point directly to what is being the being ?

Sensible answers only please! :idea:

.
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Re: The unsolvable mystery of Reality Itself

Post by Dontaskme »

Harbal wrote: Sat Sep 02, 2017 7:08 pm
Dontaskme wrote: Sat Sep 02, 2017 7:04 pm one cannot see or know itself.
Why not? What's to stop it?
Can that which has no beginning nor end be seen or known or stopped?

.
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Re: The unsolvable mystery of Reality Itself

Post by Harbal »

Dontaskme wrote: Sat Sep 02, 2017 7:12 pm
A stick can point to any number of parts of a being, but can it point directly to what is being the being ?
That depends on the definition of "being". If you mean the verb "being" then no, just like you can't point to any verb. A verb is just a label for a concept and concepts do not have a physical presence that is visible. When "being" is a noun it can be pointed to.
Dontaskme wrote: Sat Sep 02, 2017 7:15 pm
Can that which has no beginning nor end be seen or known or stopped?
Again, it depends on what you mean by "having no beginning nor end" but I don't see why the lack of a beginning or end would render something unseeable or unknowable. As far as unstoppable is concerned, what would it be doing that we couldn't stop?
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Re: The unsolvable mystery of Reality Itself

Post by Philosophy Explorer »

Dontaskme wrote: Sat Sep 02, 2017 7:15 pm
Harbal wrote: Sat Sep 02, 2017 7:08 pm
Dontaskme wrote: Sat Sep 02, 2017 7:04 pm one cannot see or know itself.
Why not? What's to stop it?
Can that which has no beginning nor end be seen or known or stopped?

.
In answer to your second metaphor, a circle.

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