The unsolvable mystery of Reality Itself

So what's really going on?

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jttcom
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Re: The unsolvable mystery of Reality Itself

Post by jttcom »

Dontaskme wrote: Sun Aug 20, 2017 8:32 am You word not mine, projection is futile.
Yes - completely my words. I'm just curious as to why you would be angry that someone was suggesting they were about to show you 'the answer' . This often happens when a person's illusion clashes with reality. A fleeting moment of self doubt that creates barriers. That's not an attack (because I see it in myself all the time), just an observation where I was looking for clarity.
Dontaskme wrote: Sun Aug 20, 2017 8:32 am What's just happening can not be undone, unless to have a time-machine?
That's quite obvious but why would you want to undo it or suggest undoing it would be desireable in any way?
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Re: The unsolvable mystery of Reality Itself

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jttcom wrote: Sun Aug 20, 2017 8:52 am
Dontaskme wrote: Sun Aug 20, 2017 8:32 am You word not mine, projection is futile.
Yes - completely my words. I'm just curious as to why you would be angry that someone was suggesting they were about to show you 'the answer' . This often happens when a person's illusion clashes with reality. A fleeting moment of self doubt that creates barriers. That's not an attack (because I see it in myself all the time), just an observation where I was looking for clarity.
Dontaskme doesn't look for clarity, but if you do, then good for you, hope you find it one day.

Alright lets flip-flop this around ...I'm just curious as to why you would think I would be angry that someone was suggesting they were about to show me 'the answer' ?...But that's not what was said was it?
It was said...'' I am about to give 'you' the greatest surprise of your life.''



You are totally entitled to your interpretation of what was said, and to my response, including thinking it was angry.

I replied the way I did, because I like surprises. Simple as that. Life is full of surprises, but sometimes we don't always get what we want.
No one can give us an answer if we don't have a question.
What's just happening can not be undone, unless to have a time-machine?
jttcom wrote: Sun Aug 20, 2017 8:52 amThat's quite obvious but why would you want to undo it or suggest undoing it would be desireable in any way?
You were the one undoing what was already said, that you and only you misinterpreted.By wanting it to be different than it was said, and probably was because you wanted to own your own interpretation of how you wanted it all to mean which would have been more desirable for you.

.

Reality IS

Any interpretation of it IS NOT.

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ken
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Re: The unsolvable mystery of Reality Itself

Post by ken »

Dontaskme wrote: Sat Aug 19, 2017 9:15 am
Relinquish wrote: Sat Aug 19, 2017 7:58 am
With all due respect Ken, what if EVEN THIS answer you have given turns out to be no more than an assumption? What makes you think it isn't?

What happens when that answer (along with ALL other answers) are finally let go of?

What remains?


:o
Relinquish is right.

We've only got questions that cannot be answered because All our answers are silent. The questioner is never silent when seeking an answer. Paradoxically the questioner already has the answer it seeks.

And that is who you are in a nutshell.
dontaskme is here mistaking human beings with I. dontaskme is right in that 'we', human beings, have got questions, but I do not. I am NOT a human being. I do NOT have questions as I already KNOW ALL the answers. I, ALL parts of the Universe and thus also the Universe, Itself, already has has the answer to ALL questions 'you', human beings ask.

I have explained this already but dontaskme is NOT listening to Me thus dontaskme is NOT yet able to understand what I say.
Dontaskme wrote: Sat Aug 19, 2017 9:15 amYou simply cannot point to who you are using words, words come and go in you, you don't, you stay, you always ARE
Using words what is the 'you' dontaskme is referring to here. 'you' CAN BE the person or the human being, or some other thing.

By the way I can point to who 'you' are and who 'I' am, using words. I have done this a few times already here on this forum. I will do it again right now. Let us see if dontaskme can see it and comprehend this, this time. 'I' am God, or the Universe, or the Mind, or the Spirit, or Allah, or any other word that explains the one and only collective One, which is pure and/or true. 'you', however, are just a person, which is just a part of a human being, which Ken is also one of.

dontaskme and Ken come and go. I, however, do NOT. I always ARE, and in all ways I AM.
Dontaskme wrote: Sat Aug 19, 2017 9:15 amWho you are can't be pointed to in the same context an arrow cannot point to itself, but can point to everything away from it save itself.
Just turn the arrow around and you can see who I am. I have done it so any adult person can also. In fact to see and understand one's own real Self is about the easiest thing to do in Life. That is once you know how to do it, which obviously dontaskme has not yet discovered nor learned this yet.

Questioning always leads to more questioning, the mind wants to know, but the mind cannot know, the mind is a concept coming and going in the unknown knowing awareness.

If that is what dontaskme wants to believe is true, then so be it, dontaskme.
Dontaskme wrote: Sat Aug 19, 2017 9:15 amListening is all that is required...then the answer will come quite spontaneously on it's own.
This happens because 'I', the real and true Self, is within 'you', the disillusioned self. When 'you' are believing and/or assuming you know what is right and true, which dontaskme does quite frequently here, then dontaskme is unable to listen to, and thus see and know, the Truth, which is obviously what is happening here.
Dontaskme wrote: Sat Aug 19, 2017 9:15 amIn fact is does not come at all, it's always there silently present in every question, when there is no question, no answer will appear, when there is no answer, no question will appear.

.
If dontaskme stopped persisting, by always presenting, that they them self already knows the truth, without ever being able to clarify, support, nor being able to clear up what they present, then they would shut up, and thus be silent and also be present in the real Truth. Only then they could be able to see, and thus KNOW, that ALL answers can BE known.

If dontaskme wants to know the real Truth, then just be open and honest with your real Self.
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Re: The unsolvable mystery of Reality Itself

Post by ken »

Dontaskme wrote: Sat Aug 19, 2017 9:34 am
ken wrote: Sat Aug 19, 2017 5:12 am
So that I can see and know thy Self. 'I' being the Universe, Itself.

The 'I' is not the universe. The 'I' is that in which the universe appears.
But you wrote before that the I can not know Itself. But here you are trying to explain what the I is.

There is nothing outside, above, nor beyond the Universe. So, there can NOT BE a thing that the Universe appears in.

Also, are you trying to suggest that there is NO physical Universe?
Dontaskme wrote: Sat Aug 19, 2017 9:34 amThe 'I' cannot know or see it self.

It can only BE itself.
The I can both be AND see and know Its Self. I have done it, SO, It is so.
Dontaskme wrote: Sat Aug 19, 2017 9:34 amWhatever 'I' knows and sees is only a presentation of 'I'
Again dontaskme is confusing the 'i' with the 'I'.
Dontaskme wrote: Sat Aug 19, 2017 9:34 amThat which is presenting can never be seen or known, presenting is without beginning nor end.
Just because dontaskme does not yet know some things, does NOT mean other people are unable of finding and discovering things.

What evidence and support does 'dontaskme' have for what they are saying here?
Dontaskme wrote: Sat Aug 19, 2017 9:34 amThere is only the ETERNAL PRESENT forever presenting itself.


.
And this IS exactly who 'I' AM.

'I'm am the ETERNAL PRESENT Universe forever presenting It's Self NOW.

If and when 'you' are fully open and honest, then you also WILL be and to see AND know who 'I' truly AM.

By your own logic you are not even able to dispute this, let alone say it is not true.
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Re: The unsolvable mystery of Reality Itself

Post by Dontaskme »

ken wrote: Sun Aug 20, 2017 10:00 am
If dontaskme wants to know the real Truth, then just be open and honest with your real Self.

There is no Dontaskme to know her real self. That is in essence her real self.

Wait for the echo.

.
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Re: The unsolvable mystery of Reality Itself

Post by Dontaskme »

Relinquish wrote: Sun Aug 20, 2017 12:55 am


All I would add is the recognition that the real reason WHY the ETERNAL PRESENT ever presents itself is absolutely unknowable.

:)
I absolutely agree. :D

.
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Re: The unsolvable mystery of Reality Itself

Post by Dontaskme »

HexHammer wrote: Sun Aug 20, 2017 3:48 amHow do you know it's "ceaselessly cyclic Universal Process" ..no science speaks about such thing.
Science usually deals with what it can measure and see which in finite. It does not deal with the infinite for how could it know anything about that?

.

And like Relinquish as already pointed out...infinity does not require a knower...infinity is self-evident.

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Re: The unsolvable mystery of Reality Itself

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ken wrote: Sun Aug 20, 2017 10:19 amAgain dontaskme is confusing the 'i' with the 'I'.
That which appears to be an 'i' confused, is never confused, simply because nothing can ever be confused.


.
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Re: The unsolvable mystery of Reality Itself

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ken wrote: Sun Aug 20, 2017 10:19 amThe I can both be AND see and know Its Self. I have done it, SO, It is so.

Just because dontaskme does not yet know some things, does NOT mean other people are unable of finding and discovering things.

Okay Ken, I get it. You don't have to keep telling me you get it. I get that you get it.

As for 'me' the only thing I get is that there is nothing to get. You can get what you want, but you can't ever get it from me, for where would I be getting it from?

.
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Re: The unsolvable mystery of Reality Itself

Post by ken »

Dontaskme wrote: Sun Aug 20, 2017 12:29 pm
ken wrote: Sun Aug 20, 2017 10:19 amThe I can both be AND see and know Its Self. I have done it, SO, It is so.

Just because dontaskme does not yet know some things, does NOT mean other people are unable of finding and discovering things.

Okay Ken, I get it. You don't have to keep telling me you get it. I get that you get it.
Show Me that dontaskme truly does get. Stop saying that some things are unknown, and then I will stop questioning and challenging that ridiculous presumption.
Dontaskme wrote: Sun Aug 20, 2017 12:29 pmAs for 'me' the only thing I get is that there is nothing to get. You can get what you want, but you can't ever get it from me, for where would I be getting it from?

.
I am unable to get a clarification of what 'I' am from dontaskme's perspective because dontaskme says that they can NEVER know what I am, so I am unable to know how to answer this question for you properly.
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Re: The unsolvable mystery of Reality Itself

Post by ken »

Relinquish wrote: Sun Aug 20, 2017 12:55 am
Dontaskme wrote: Sat Aug 19, 2017 9:34 am
ken wrote: Sat Aug 19, 2017 5:12 am
So that I can see and know thy Self. 'I' being the Universe, Itself.

The 'I' is not the universe. The 'I' is that in which the universe appears.

The 'I' cannot know or see it self.

It can only BE itself.

Whatever 'I' knows and sees is only a presentation of 'I'

That which is presenting can never be seen or known, presenting is without beginning nor end.

There is only the ETERNAL PRESENT forever presenting itself.


.
I absolutely resonate with all that you have said here.
Of course you would. You both strongly hold onto the exact same belief.
Relinquish wrote: Sun Aug 20, 2017 12:55 amAll I would add is the recognition that the real reason WHY the ETERNAL PRESENT ever presents itself is absolutely unknowable.

:)
So, how does relinquish know the "real" reason when others do not, and, why does relinquish know the "real" reason, when others do not?
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Re: The unsolvable mystery of Reality Itself

Post by ken »

Relinquish wrote: Sun Aug 20, 2017 2:37 am We don't REALLY know why Movement is happening, though it seems that It can only happen AT Stillness.
Relinquish may NOT know why movement is happening, but to Me it is very obvious.
Relinquish wrote: Sun Aug 20, 2017 2:37 amJust as the opposite of 'down' does not need to know how to be 'up', the opposite of Causeless Stillness does not need to know how to be the 'structured ever-changing asymmetry' that is Causeless Movement.

Why would Reality Itself follow ANYTHING other than 'the path of least resistance' if it doesn't need to?
Who says reality would follow any thing other than the path of least resistance?
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Re: The unsolvable mystery of Reality Itself

Post by jttcom »

Dontaskme wrote: Sun Aug 20, 2017 9:33 am Alright lets flip-flop this around ...I'm just curious as to why you would think I would be angry that someone was suggesting they were about to show me 'the answer' ?...But that's not what was said was it?
It was said...'' I am about to give 'you' the greatest surprise of your life.''
I'll start with this - the best definition of Faith that I have found (so far) is from Anthony De Mello:

"Faith: an openness to the truth, no matter what the consequences, no matter where it comes from, no matter where it leads you. Faith is insecurity, you don’t know, you are ready to listen. Faith does not mean being gullible. You have to challenge everything, but challenge it from an attitude of openness"

Your reply to the offer of a surprise was sarcasm = anger = fear. Not a problem if it is recognised as such but I am not sure you truly do.

I see a deep thinker in you who has shaken off a great deal of illusion but only built another one and, like a person who rediscovers Christianity, lives in fear of losing it rather than flowing from it.
ken wrote: Sun Aug 20, 2017 10:19 am If and when 'you' are fully open and honest, then you also WILL be and to see AND know who 'I' truly AM.
Ken provides a great many signs to follow and ones that that deep thinker that was in you could use - not to lose what you have but to grow further from, even if it were to realise Ken's philosophy is lacking in some way. Ken's thinking needs thinking but the speed of your responses shows a reluctance to do this.

I'm not sure I agree with ken or I disagree with you on the substance, I'm only talking about the response ....
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Re: The unsolvable mystery of Reality Itself

Post by ken »

surreptitious57 wrote: Tue Aug 15, 2017 1:35 pm
ken wrote:
surreptitious57 wrote:
Space is a physical thing because it has property and dimension and neither is it empty. Because so called empty space
is not empty at all unless it is an artificially created absolute vacuum. Also a supreme knowledge base does not have to
be spiritual as it just has to be absolute in the same way supreme consciousness does not have to be spiritual. Existence
transcends both knowledge and consciousness because minds will not always exist whereas existence will and always has
The space between physical things has to be free of physical things. Otherwise there could not be any movement at all
This is not true as physical objects can and do move through space which is not empty. This is possible because what appears empty from
a classical perspective is not so from a quantum one. And there is no negligible force being applied which makes all movement impossible
But physical objects are ironically mostly empty space anyway. Although this cannot be observed at the classical level


So, you start out trying to disagree with Me but end up totally agreeing with Me.

Are you saying only human beings can create space absolute vacuum
Absolute vacuums do exist in nature but only at the quantum level

I obviously did not express clearly. I was just saying that thoughts themselves are invisible like a spirit is
Thoughts may be invisible but they can be experienced so are not like a spirit which is more metaphysical

What does 'metaphysical' mean to you?

I have asked you before to define mind I do not recall seeing you doing this
I have many times defined mind as a function of the brain so try to remember this from now on

Sorry I did not explain that well. You define mind as a function of the brain but just like walking is a function of the legs and writing is a function of the hands and speaking is a function of the mouth, none of this exactly defines what walking actually is, what writing actually is, and what speech actually is. I also am no clearer to understanding how you define what the mind actually is.

Also, how do you differentiate between thoughts and the mind? They both are functions of the brain. And, if we want to look down deep even walking, writing, and speaking are also functions of the brain.

I have already explained how I define Mind so to Me Mind does always exist just like existence does. They belong together as One
Mind and mind are obviously not the same and I do not use the former term myself only the latter.

Correction, you mean they are obviously not the same to you. To Me obviously One exists while the other does not.

As I prefer the terms Existence
or Reality or Universe for unlike Mind none of them imply a never ending consciousness that is only temporary rather than infinite

Are you referring to temporary in relation to surreptitious57 only here?
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Re: The unsolvable mystery of Reality Itself

Post by Dontaskme »

jttcom wrote: Sun Aug 20, 2017 2:51 pm
Dontaskme wrote: Sun Aug 20, 2017 9:33 am Alright lets flip-flop this around ...I'm just curious as to why you would think I would be angry that someone was suggesting they were about to show me 'the answer' ?...But that's not what was said was it?
It was said...'' I am about to give 'you' the greatest surprise of your life.''
I'll start with this - the best definition of Faith that I have found (so far) is from Anthony De Mello:

"Faith: an openness to the truth, no matter what the consequences, no matter where it comes from, no matter where it leads you. Faith is insecurity, you don’t know, you are ready to listen. Faith does not mean being gullible. You have to challenge everything, but challenge it from an attitude of openness"

Your reply to the offer of a surprise was sarcasm = anger = fear. Not a problem if it is recognised as such but I am not sure you truly do.

I see a deep thinker in you who has shaken off a great deal of illusion but only built another one and, like a person who rediscovers Christianity, lives in fear of losing it rather than flowing from it.
ken wrote: Sun Aug 20, 2017 10:19 am If and when 'you' are fully open and honest, then you also WILL be and to see AND know who 'I' truly AM.
Ken provides a great many signs to follow and ones that that deep thinker that was in you could use - not to lose what you have but to grow further from, even if it were to realise Ken's philosophy is lacking in some way. Ken's thinking needs thinking but the speed of your responses shows a reluctance to do this.

I'm not sure I agree with ken or I disagree with you on the substance, I'm only talking about the response ....
Think what you like ...none of what thought thinks is real...


.There is here an energetic resonance to what's being discussed ...it's not a contest to see who best describes it.


.There is only resonance, self to self resonance. The cry of the beloved.

.
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