The unsolvable mystery of Reality Itself

So what's really going on?

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ken
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Re: The unsolvable mystery of Reality Itself

Post by ken »

Relinquish wrote: Wed Aug 16, 2017 11:35 pm
ken wrote: Tue Aug 15, 2017 10:40 am
Relinquish wrote: Tue Aug 15, 2017 12:19 am Firstly, before we get to the mystery, allow me to point out what CAN be known.

In truth, the naturally occurring 'shape' of the causelessly cyclic Universal Process is the only shape that ever actually occurs in Reality.

Because 'Causeless Shapelessness' is ALWAYS completely structureless, ever-changeless and perfectly symmetrical, the 'Causeless Shape' of this Process can ONLY be the structured ever-changing asymmetry that it is.

Fundamentally, ALL apparent 'things' and 'events' (including 'ourselves') are actually 'features' of this structured ever-changing asymmetry.

Now, the mystery...

WHAT this process REALLY is, and the actual reason WHY it is occurring at all (and why the illusion of separateness and duality EVER arises within the 'experience' of all sufficiently complex features of the process) is absolutely unknowable...
But I already KNOW the answer/s.

Just because 'you' do not know the answer/s, does NOT mean that the answers to simple like questions posed here are unknowable at all.

The process REALLY IS very simple to understand. The actual reason WHY IT is occurring is also very simple to understand.

The process has to be. The Universe is based on two fundamental things - things and no thing. 'Things' are the physical things, and, 'no thing' is the nothing, or the space, between and around things. The space or the nothing allows all the things to move freely about. This process IS constant-change, which has, as far as I am aware, being going on forever. 'Constant-change' allows things to interact with each other, and with every interaction a new thing is created. Every new creation is caused.

If you look at things at different intervals, timed by a clock for example, you can see how all things come into, and out of, existence. This happens at the galaxy level all the way down to the sub-atomic level. But because there is not different or separate intervals the coming into, and out of, apparently separate things is only an illusion, because there is only One thing, which is Itself in a constant state of flowing change, that is constant-change. This is the process the Universe, Itself, is in.

Every action cause a reaction, which IS Creation. There is no definitive or separate action, because on a time or clock scale there is no stop/start process. There is only a constant-change process. So, every reaction is, in of itself, just a re-action, or an(other) action, which is in a constant state of change. Therefore, the One thing, Itself, that is the Universe, IS always changing in shape and form. Like all things that evolve, they change in shape in form. The Universe, being infinite, IS Creating, Its Self, always, and IS also - in all ways - evolving.

There is NO creation versus evolution problem nor debate because both are equally correct, and equally incorrect. Both evolution and creation together co-exist.

Unless I am proven wrong, the Universe IS, obviously, existing and always has been and always will be. The Universe, Its Self, IS what IS.

Now for what the actual reason WHY the Universe is existing is so that 'I', (Consciousness, Awareness, Spritual Enlightenment, God, Allah, or any other word that wants to be used to describe a Higher Being), can see and bear witness to the beauty that 'I' am Creating.

Things have obviously re-acted with each other, which have obviously evolved into creating human beings, who are slowly becoming self-aware beings. The Universe, Itself, although is One thing but when broken down to Its most basic elements is made up of two-things. The Universe is made up of physical things and no thing. Existing physical things moving about freely, due to no thing which also must obviously exist between physical things, is HOW the Universe has created physical human bodies. The Universe, in this physical sense which obviously includes the non-physical also, is the One that IS the Creator or the ALL-powerful, in the physical sense.

But there is also an awareness or consciousness of things, which is also evolving within human bodies. If this consciousness/awareness is actually physical or not, will be discovered soon enough, but for now it is obvious that these things exist. Within every human body there are, obviously 'thoughts', and, there is a 'Mind'. 'Thoughts' existing can not be disputed successfully but as for the 'Mind' we can ignore this for now because 'thoughts' themselves are evidence enough that some thing that has the power to imagine, invent, design, and create exists but when a human body is cut open this thing with so much Creative power can not been seen. So, whether this thing is physical or non-physical does not really matter. We just KNOW it exists. As evidenced by all the human made creations and the seemingly amazing ability to continue learning, and at a ever-progressing rate, this unseen thing, which is always evolving into more and more of a self-conscious being, is the Creator also, but in the unseen, non-physical, or Spiritual sense. When ALL the knowledge from ALL human beings, which is held within or stored within ALL the brains is put together into One knowledge base, this is the ALL-knowing Spiritual One, sometimes referred to 'as above'.

For a non-physical or Spiritual One to be able to 'see', bear witness to and/or understand things, It NEEDS a physical living breathing animal that experiences and with enough senses, and a brain capable of gathering and storing information, gained through its senses, to make sense of the 'world', or the Universe, that it lives in. The Spirit One, which Creates EVERY thing, evolves into a Self-Conscious or Self-aware Being, eventually, and is then thus able to understand exactly the beauty that It IS always Creating.

The Universe was NEVER created, as such at one time or in one moment. The Universe IS being Created always in the HERE, and in the NOW, by the constant-change of ALL physical things with and through a non-physical, limitless and boundary-less surrounding. The moment NOW IS always flowing through the always HERE, and this IS where 'I' am.

'I', the pure One, have always existed deep-down and within ALL human beings. I have been guiding and talking to you ALL always, but you ALL do not stop long enough to listen and be able to here Me. And, just like all found, discovered, or learned knowledge comes to light slowly as a knowing, usually by one person at a time, so will this knowledge.

NO one person is better than nor less than another. EACH person is just the result of, or the sum of, all the past experiences that the body has had, in with they inhabit. So, if one person finds or discover some new/er knowledge before another it is NOT because that person is any better nor smarter but just because they have had different prior experiences.


Relinquish wrote: Tue Aug 15, 2017 12:19 am...and yet, Here It IS...

...Here You ARE...
Just ask the question/s and I will provide the answer/s that I can.
Why is the universe occurring?
So that I can see and know thy Self. 'I' being the Universe, Itself.
ken
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Re: The unsolvable mystery of Reality Itself

Post by ken »

Relinquish wrote: Wed Aug 16, 2017 11:29 pm
Dontaskme wrote: Tue Aug 15, 2017 8:01 am https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/or ... 5d03c4.jpg

.

If it wasn't a mystery, it would lose it's beauty.

Thanks for the Thread, it's beautiful.

.

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/or ... cef9b2.jpg

.
Luckily, there's no possibility of the ultimate mystery (about the true nature of Reality) ever being actually solved.
Is what you say here an assumption or Reality?

What do you mean by, 'the true nature of Reality?', and what is the difference between 'reality' and 'Reality'.
Relinquish wrote: Wed Aug 16, 2017 11:29 pmMany people, myself included, have imagined that they have solved this mystery.
Why would you imagine/assume some thing BEFORE you KNEW for sure? Hopefully you are now fully aware of the consequences of assuming some thing before having the actual knowledge of that thing. As I have continually asked here, why not just look at what IS true before assuming (imagining) any thing?

Relinquish wrote: Wed Aug 16, 2017 11:29 pmHowever, I recently realized that to mentally superimpose ANY concept over Reality is to effectively obscure Reality from view. This realization eventually dissolves the question.
What is that Reality that you were obscuring?
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Re: The unsolvable mystery of Reality Itself

Post by Relinquish »

ken wrote: Sat Aug 19, 2017 5:12 am
Relinquish wrote: Wed Aug 16, 2017 11:35 pm
ken wrote: Tue Aug 15, 2017 10:40 am

But I already KNOW the answer/s.

Just because 'you' do not know the answer/s, does NOT mean that the answers to simple like questions posed here are unknowable at all.

The process REALLY IS very simple to understand. The actual reason WHY IT is occurring is also very simple to understand.

The process has to be. The Universe is based on two fundamental things - things and no thing. 'Things' are the physical things, and, 'no thing' is the nothing, or the space, between and around things. The space or the nothing allows all the things to move freely about. This process IS constant-change, which has, as far as I am aware, being going on forever. 'Constant-change' allows things to interact with each other, and with every interaction a new thing is created. Every new creation is caused.

If you look at things at different intervals, timed by a clock for example, you can see how all things come into, and out of, existence. This happens at the galaxy level all the way down to the sub-atomic level. But because there is not different or separate intervals the coming into, and out of, apparently separate things is only an illusion, because there is only One thing, which is Itself in a constant state of flowing change, that is constant-change. This is the process the Universe, Itself, is in.

Every action cause a reaction, which IS Creation. There is no definitive or separate action, because on a time or clock scale there is no stop/start process. There is only a constant-change process. So, every reaction is, in of itself, just a re-action, or an(other) action, which is in a constant state of change. Therefore, the One thing, Itself, that is the Universe, IS always changing in shape and form. Like all things that evolve, they change in shape in form. The Universe, being infinite, IS Creating, Its Self, always, and IS also - in all ways - evolving.

There is NO creation versus evolution problem nor debate because both are equally correct, and equally incorrect. Both evolution and creation together co-exist.

Unless I am proven wrong, the Universe IS, obviously, existing and always has been and always will be. The Universe, Its Self, IS what IS.

Now for what the actual reason WHY the Universe is existing is so that 'I', (Consciousness, Awareness, Spritual Enlightenment, God, Allah, or any other word that wants to be used to describe a Higher Being), can see and bear witness to the beauty that 'I' am Creating.

Things have obviously re-acted with each other, which have obviously evolved into creating human beings, who are slowly becoming self-aware beings. The Universe, Itself, although is One thing but when broken down to Its most basic elements is made up of two-things. The Universe is made up of physical things and no thing. Existing physical things moving about freely, due to no thing which also must obviously exist between physical things, is HOW the Universe has created physical human bodies. The Universe, in this physical sense which obviously includes the non-physical also, is the One that IS the Creator or the ALL-powerful, in the physical sense.

But there is also an awareness or consciousness of things, which is also evolving within human bodies. If this consciousness/awareness is actually physical or not, will be discovered soon enough, but for now it is obvious that these things exist. Within every human body there are, obviously 'thoughts', and, there is a 'Mind'. 'Thoughts' existing can not be disputed successfully but as for the 'Mind' we can ignore this for now because 'thoughts' themselves are evidence enough that some thing that has the power to imagine, invent, design, and create exists but when a human body is cut open this thing with so much Creative power can not been seen. So, whether this thing is physical or non-physical does not really matter. We just KNOW it exists. As evidenced by all the human made creations and the seemingly amazing ability to continue learning, and at a ever-progressing rate, this unseen thing, which is always evolving into more and more of a self-conscious being, is the Creator also, but in the unseen, non-physical, or Spiritual sense. When ALL the knowledge from ALL human beings, which is held within or stored within ALL the brains is put together into One knowledge base, this is the ALL-knowing Spiritual One, sometimes referred to 'as above'.

For a non-physical or Spiritual One to be able to 'see', bear witness to and/or understand things, It NEEDS a physical living breathing animal that experiences and with enough senses, and a brain capable of gathering and storing information, gained through its senses, to make sense of the 'world', or the Universe, that it lives in. The Spirit One, which Creates EVERY thing, evolves into a Self-Conscious or Self-aware Being, eventually, and is then thus able to understand exactly the beauty that It IS always Creating.

The Universe was NEVER created, as such at one time or in one moment. The Universe IS being Created always in the HERE, and in the NOW, by the constant-change of ALL physical things with and through a non-physical, limitless and boundary-less surrounding. The moment NOW IS always flowing through the always HERE, and this IS where 'I' am.

'I', the pure One, have always existed deep-down and within ALL human beings. I have been guiding and talking to you ALL always, but you ALL do not stop long enough to listen and be able to here Me. And, just like all found, discovered, or learned knowledge comes to light slowly as a knowing, usually by one person at a time, so will this knowledge.

NO one person is better than nor less than another. EACH person is just the result of, or the sum of, all the past experiences that the body has had, in with they inhabit. So, if one person finds or discover some new/er knowledge before another it is NOT because that person is any better nor smarter but just because they have had different prior experiences.





Just ask the question/s and I will provide the answer/s that I can.
Why is the universe occurring?
So that I can see and know thy Self. 'I' being the Universe, Itself.
With all due respect Ken, what if EVEN THIS answer you have given turns out to be no more than an assumption? What makes you think it isn't?

What happens when that answer (along with EVERY other answer) is finally let go of?

What remains?


:o
Last edited by Relinquish on Sat Aug 19, 2017 2:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Dontaskme
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Re: The unsolvable mystery of Reality Itself

Post by Dontaskme »

Relinquish wrote: Sat Aug 19, 2017 7:58 am
With all due respect Ken, what if EVEN THIS answer you have given turns out to be no more than an assumption? What makes you think it isn't?

What happens when that answer (along with ALL other answers) are finally let go of?

What remains?


:o
Relinquish is right.

We've only got questions that cannot be answered because All our answers are silent. The questioner is never silent when seeking an answer. Paradoxically the questioner already has the answer it seeks.

And that is who you are in a nutshell.

You simply cannot point to who you are using words, words come and go in you, you don't, you stay, you always ARE
Who you are can't be pointed to in the same context an arrow cannot point to itself, but can point to everything away from it save itself.

Questioning always leads to more questioning, the mind wants to know, but the mind cannot know, the mind is a concept coming and going in the unknown knowing awareness.

Listening is all that is required...then the answer will come quite spontaneously on it's own. In fact is does not come at all, it's always there silently present in every question, when there is no question, no answer will appear, when there is no answer, no question will appear.

.
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Re: The unsolvable mystery of Reality Itself

Post by Dontaskme »

ken wrote: Sat Aug 19, 2017 5:12 am
So that I can see and know thy Self. 'I' being the Universe, Itself.

The 'I' is not the universe. The 'I' is that in which the universe appears.

The 'I' cannot know or see it self.

It can only BE itself.

Whatever 'I' knows and sees is only a presentation of 'I'

That which is presenting can never be seen or known, presenting is without beginning nor end.

There is only the ETERNAL PRESENT forever presenting itself.


.
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Re: The unsolvable mystery of Reality Itself

Post by Dontaskme »

Hobbes' Choice wrote: Thu Aug 17, 2017 10:38 am naturally occurring 'shape' of the causelessly cyclic Universal Process is the only shape that ever actually occurs in Reality.


A word of advice. 1) If you are trying to describe something you might like to consider a lexicon that is already in common use.
2) Try not to confuse the actuality of a thing, the reality of a thing, and the perception of a thing; which it seems if what you are doing.


i rest my case.
Go on then, show us all how you rest your case?

Describe what the confusion is over the actuality / reality of a thing, and the perception of a thing. :?: :idea: :arrow:

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Relinquish
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Re: The unsolvable mystery of Reality Itself

Post by Relinquish »

Dontaskme wrote: Sat Aug 19, 2017 9:34 am
ken wrote: Sat Aug 19, 2017 5:12 am
So that I can see and know thy Self. 'I' being the Universe, Itself.

The 'I' is not the universe. The 'I' is that in which the universe appears.

The 'I' cannot know or see it self.

It can only BE itself.

Whatever 'I' knows and sees is only a presentation of 'I'

That which is presenting can never be seen or known, presenting is without beginning nor end.

There is only the ETERNAL PRESENT forever presenting itself.


.
I absolutely resonate with all that you have said here.

All I would add is the recognition that the real reason WHY the ETERNAL PRESENT ever presents itself is absolutely unknowable.

:)
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Re: The unsolvable mystery of Reality Itself

Post by Relinquish »

We don't REALLY know why Movement is happening, though it seems that It can only happen AT Stillness.

Just as the opposite of 'down' does not need to know how to be 'up', the opposite of Causeless Stillness does not need to know how to be the 'structured ever-changing asymmetry' that is Causeless Movement.

Why would Reality Itself follow ANYTHING other than 'the path of least resistance' if it doesn't need to?
Last edited by Relinquish on Sun Aug 20, 2017 5:50 am, edited 4 times in total.
ken
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Re: The unsolvable mystery of Reality Itself

Post by ken »

Relinquish wrote: Sat Aug 19, 2017 7:58 am
ken wrote: Sat Aug 19, 2017 5:12 am
Relinquish wrote: Wed Aug 16, 2017 11:35 pm

Why is the universe occurring?
So that I can see and know thy Self. 'I' being the Universe, Itself.
With all due respect Ken, what if EVEN THIS answer you have given turns out to be no more than an assumption? What makes you think it isn't?
This answer can NOT be an assumption. I can NOT and do NOT assume and know what I see and know. I see what I see, and, I know what I know.

If what I know is actually correct or not is another matter.
Relinquish wrote: Sat Aug 19, 2017 7:58 amWhat happens when that answer (along with EVERY other answer) is finally let go of?

What remains?


:o
What remains is still everything that exists now, less obviously ALL answers.
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Re: The unsolvable mystery of Reality Itself

Post by HexHammer »

Dontaskme wrote: Wed Aug 16, 2017 7:21 am
HexHammer wrote: Wed Aug 16, 2017 5:02 amSure sounds like some skitzo ravings!! :shock:
That's what I used to think about all the stuff teachers tried to ram down my throat during my imprisoned days at that weird institution they call school, which I later called a holding pen for all the farm animals..
Well ..you see what you learn in school isn't skitzo ramblings, but mere what some autistic savant has made up, more or less completely irrelevant 99% of it! ..but none the less it makes sense!

..however OP doesn't make sense at all!
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Re: The unsolvable mystery of Reality Itself

Post by HexHammer »

Relinquish wrote: Wed Aug 16, 2017 11:46 pm
HexHammer wrote: Wed Aug 16, 2017 5:02 amSure sounds like some skitzo ravings!! :shock:
In what way?
In truth, the naturally occurring 'shape' of the causelessly cyclic Universal Process is the only shape that ever actually occurs in Reality.
What truth is there about a naturally occurring 'shape'?!?!

How do you know it's "ceaselessly cyclic Universal Process" ..no science speaks about such thing, so it seems you pull it straight out of your ass!

There are too much more, which I can't bother to make account for!
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Re: The unsolvable mystery of Reality Itself

Post by Dontaskme »

HexHammer wrote: Sun Aug 20, 2017 3:42 am
Dontaskme wrote: Wed Aug 16, 2017 7:21 am
HexHammer wrote: Wed Aug 16, 2017 5:02 amSure sounds like some skitzo ravings!! :shock:
That's what I used to think about all the stuff teachers tried to ram down my throat during my imprisoned days at that weird institution they call school, which I later called a holding pen for all the farm animals..
Well ..you see what you learn in school isn't skitzo ramblings, but mere what some autistic savant has made up, more or less completely irrelevant 99% of it! ..but none the less it makes sense!
All knowledge is made-up. The words skitzo and autistic do not really exist in reality, they're just labels added onto what already is...Labels are the minds way of making what it cannot know into something it believes it knows.

As for the OP making sense...

If what the sense of I is reading is not making any sense to your sense of I, it's because you believe in some other belief that makes sense to you, something that you have read somewhere else, or someone else has told you about, something that you have found elsewhere and have believed it for yourself simply because when you were first born, you had no knowledge of your own, so all your knowledge was learned from an outside source. Then you had to wait until you were coherent enough to be able to parrot that learnt information and regurgitate it back to yourself. All the sounds that were made by other people were transformed into words, and filtered by you as you interpreted the sounds to fit to your own model of reality, one that suited your particular set of belief structures that were important to you. You did this all your life with yourself because it made you feel good about yourself and your life, and mostly because without your story what on earth would you have been?

When we first existed inside our mothers womb, we didn't know we existed, but then our mother gave us a name, and that was when we knew we existed.. I knew, because my name gave me an identity, I became a known I

...even though I already existed before I knew I did... but in order to know, I had to wear the artificial name-tag to prove it.

The name tag being an add on illusory 'me' over what I already was.

It's the same with all knowledge, knowledge is just a collection of symbols, letters and numbers forming meaning where there isn't any, except what the mind makes-up.

.

Does that make sense?

It makes perfect sense to me.


.
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Re: The unsolvable mystery of Reality Itself

Post by jttcom »

Now why can't I get my head around the jump from
Relinquish wrote: Wed Aug 16, 2017 11:45 pm Therefore, 'the tree' could not possibly be occurring in exactly the way that it is without the ENTIRETY of 'not the tree' (i.e. the rest of the universe) occuring in exactly the way that it is.
to
Relinquish wrote: Wed Aug 16, 2017 11:45 pm In this way, 'the tree' naturally includes the entirety of the rest of the universe within it's own existence, and so there is no REAL difference between 'the tree' and 'not the tree'. As such, neither 'the tree' nor 'not the tree' exist.
Yes - the tree is only the 'tree' because of 'not the tree' but how does this make the 'tree' also be 'not the tree'
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Re: The unsolvable mystery of Reality Itself

Post by jttcom »

Dontaskme wrote: Tue Aug 15, 2017 3:48 pm
ken wrote: Tue Aug 15, 2017 12:39 pmI am about to give 'you' the greatest surprise of your life.
Gees, I can hardly wait. My goo balls are popping out of my head with over excited anticipation..and my mouth is dripping wet with hunger for something new, I hope it's worth waiting for?
Why does this make you angry?
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Re: The unsolvable mystery of Reality Itself

Post by Dontaskme »

jttcom wrote: Sun Aug 20, 2017 8:29 am
Dontaskme wrote: Tue Aug 15, 2017 3:48 pm
ken wrote: Tue Aug 15, 2017 12:39 pmI am about to give 'you' the greatest surprise of your life.
Gees, I can hardly wait. My goo balls are popping out of my head with over excited anticipation..and my mouth is dripping wet with hunger for something new, I hope it's worth waiting for?
Why does this make you angry?
You word not mine, projection is futile.

What's just happening can not be undone, unless to have a time-machine?

.
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