Do you believe in yourself?

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Dontaskme
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Do you believe in yourself?

Post by Dontaskme »

Do you believe you exist?
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Harbal
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Re: Do you believe in yourself?

Post by Harbal »

Shut up!
osgart
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Re: Do you believe in yourself?

Post by osgart »

physical pain is evidence I exist.

it does it for me!
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Dontaskme
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Re: Do you believe in yourself?

Post by Dontaskme »

osgart wrote: Mon Jun 12, 2017 11:09 pm physical pain is evidence I exist.

it does it for me!
osgart, I'm just going to play around with some ideas of mine, and since you've replied with a very good idea yourself, I'm assuming you are happy to play along too. First let me emphasise that I am in no way attempting to personally attack people by the things I say, but it seems some people on this forum appear to become offended by what I write about, but I would like to emphasize clearly, it is not my incentive to attack people verbally at all. My motive here is to think a little bit differently and to ponder the really hard questions in life, ones that are often ignored in general . I was born to do this, so it's not that I'm rebelling against the accepted norm here. I know I'm different, and I do not care whether people mock me or not, because I really do believe that life has been alive forever and that this experience we call 'planet earth' is just one of an infinite amount of experiences we as life are currently experiencing. I believe we graduate from each experience until we have returned to the Godhead. One of my motives is to prove to the forum that who you actually are is not who you have been led to believe you are, it seems we have been conditioned to believe we are our name. When in reality, I have discovered through a lot of intensive internal research that we are in fact invisible. You do not of course have to believe anything I write about.

Now, my first question to you is....how is physical pain evidence that you exist and can that 'me' who appears to feel pain been seen, also, can the pain be seen?

Or, are all these ideas just a feeling known?

You do not have to answer or play along..but if you do, then I will proceed from the answers you give.

I'm not trying to trick or hurt peoples feelings..or tell people they are wrong and I am right, I'm simply playing around with ideas, and putting them out there. We're all doing the same if we're totally honest with ourselves. Truth is, No one really knows ultimate truth, all we've got is an imagination....and our unique beliefs about those imaginations...I genuinely do think it's time that human beings start to ponder the really difficult questions about existence....instead of just sleep walking through life not giving a damn about what I consider to be an absolute miracle that is so breath takingly precious.

I really find it odd that some people refuse to believe that Something made this life, that they'd rather say it's all happened by pure random chance from nothing. But I don't believe that, I believe life can only come from life, and a rational mind cannot come from a non-rational mind. Something made life, and it is not human.

I really wish for all people that they learn how to acknowledge this free gift known as life. Of course I am aware that some people will not agree with me that life is a wonderful miracle of opportunity toward absolute greatness, in that they'd rather adopt a negative attitude toward being alive even to the point of disliking every minute of it.



.

Thanks.
osgart
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Re: Do you believe in yourself?

Post by osgart »

life must come from life, you are preaching to the choir there. I believe life competes for existence though, it don't own existence.

mockery is a waste of time.

personally I do believe this life is a miracle when you think about all the fine tuning, and just right conditions that have to be.

pain isn't something you can just turn off though. there's a lot of rubbish out there that because we observe things, things exist, when everything tells me the universe exists regardless of my observations.

we aren't even a speck of dust compared to the size of the universe. life, the most important of all things, and it's a beggar in the universe.

personally , I wonder if we cease to exist at death. logic though tells me I am created by an intelligence, so we'll see about that.
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Dontaskme
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Re: Do you believe in yourself?

Post by Dontaskme »

osgart wrote: Tue Jun 13, 2017 1:21 pm life must come from life, you are preaching to the choir there. I believe life competes for existence though, it don't own existence.
Yes, it competes for dominance. It wants to survive. There's something here willing itself to live. And one thing I've noticed is that life doesn't claim anything, in that the sun doesn't claim personal glory for ripening the grape. It does not say grape you owe me for your existence.

osgart wrote: Tue Jun 13, 2017 1:21 pmpersonally I do believe this life is a miracle when you think about all the fine tuning, and just right conditions that have to be.
It is a miracle to be alive. As the saying goes, a hurricane passing through a scrap metal yard does not make a fleet of aircraft.
osgart wrote: Tue Jun 13, 2017 1:21 pmpain isn't something you can just turn off though. there's a lot of rubbish out there that because we observe things, things exist, when everything tells me the universe exists regardless of my observations.
The thing is though, we can't see what's observing. There is a sense of existing, of being something, but we cannot see that something. We see images, but we cannot see where they are coming from. We cannot see the self we believe to exist.
We cannot see thoughts, or feelings, we cannot see the meanings of every word we make up..we cannot see love,or death, or life ..no thing has ever been seen directly, we just believe those things exist. We can't even see the believer.
osgart wrote: Tue Jun 13, 2017 1:21 pmwe aren't even a speck of dust compared to the size of the universe. life, the most important of all things, and it's a beggar in the universe.
In the powers of 10 video...the more we zoom into matter the smaller it gets until it's so small it's invisible, same applies with zooming away from matter, the more we zoom away from matter the smaller it gets until it disappears. But the trick is that it's not gone anywhere, it's still there. There is no where for anything to go...it must have always existed.
osgart wrote: Tue Jun 13, 2017 1:21 pmpersonally , I wonder if we cease to exist at death. logic though tells me I am created by an intelligence, so we'll see about that.
The ideas and concepts and feelings about ourselves cease to exist , just as what I had for dinner 3 weeks ago has ceased to exist in my memory, even though that memory of what I had for dinner 3 weeks ago is still there lurking somewhere.
I believe we don't cease to exist, since we never actually existed in the first place to begin with, except as an idea.

Just some of my thought osgart.

Thanks for yours.

.
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Greta
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Re: Do you believe in yourself?

Post by Greta »

Dontaskme wrote: Wed Jun 14, 2017 6:15 am
osgart wrote: Tue Jun 13, 2017 1:21 pmpain isn't something you can just turn off though. there's a lot of rubbish out there that because we observe things, things exist, when everything tells me the universe exists regardless of my observations.
The thing is though, we can't see what's observing. There is a sense of existing, of being something, but we cannot see that something. We see images, but we cannot see where they are coming from. We cannot see the self we believe to exist.
We cannot see thoughts, or feelings, we cannot see the meanings of every word we make up..we cannot see love,or death, or life ..no thing has ever been seen directly, we just believe those things exist. We can't even see the believer.
I don't think you addressed osgart's reasonable point. No doubt that our minds play a huge role in how pain affects us. So, the muscle burn that you don't worry about after exercise would be a concern if the pain appeared without obvious cause in the middle of the might. The experience of the pain would be very different but the pain's reality - and refusal to be rationalised away - is solid.

I appreciate the general point of the thread, that appears to be that we medium-sized life forms are parts of larger entities, just as we are comprised of colonies of smaller entities in what is essentially a Russian doll style arrangement. The big concern, at the heart of many threads (yet not spoken) is death. Whatever larger entities we are part of will probably live on after we die, for example:
Gunnery Sergeant Hartman from Kubrick's Full Metal Jacket wrote:Today, you people are no longer pukes. Today, you are Marines. You're part of a brotherhood. From now on, until the day you die, wherever you are, every Marine is your brother. Most of you will go to Vietnam. Some of you will not come back. But always remember this: Marines die. That's what we're here for. But the Marine Corps lives forever, and that means you live forever.
I see reality and the idea of death and afterlife a bit like that. This particular Greta entity that operates as I do in this time and place will one day go away (hopefully to another, friendlier dimension but I'm not sure reality always responds to wish lists). Still, once I die, barring catastrophe, my family, subculture and society, humanity as a whole, the biosphere, the Earth and so forth will live on, just as we live on after our individual cells die.

Any other notion of a conscious afterlife, one where the subjective continues forever, is conjecture, though with more merit than is often supposed, thanks to the research of Ian Stephenson, Sam Parnia and others.

Another possibility I wonder about is that a highly dilated sensation of time in the final minutes of brain function when dying could result in a long "afterlife" experientially. Dream researchers in recent years claim that the sense of time dilation that can occur when one dreams is due to "data compression" of the information in the mind's stories.

For instance, in dreams we rarely remember a full drive from home to another place - usually it's as if we've been teleported. Thus "data compression" - removal of the least important information. In the final minutes it's a cliché that many patients see their life flash before their eyes; that timeline probably won't include you doing the daily domestics! It's more of a highlights reel.

Yet the "life reel" is not so much an afterlife as experiencing memories. At that point in the dying process it's not as though we've gone anywhere, other than to dreamland. After that, however, there's all sorts of interesting stories where we can't be certain what's going on.
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Re: Do you believe in yourself?

Post by Dubious »

Dontaskme wrote: Wed Jun 14, 2017 6:15 am We cannot see thoughts, or feelings, we cannot see the meanings of every word we make up..we cannot see love,or death, or life ..no thing has ever been seen directly, we just believe those things exist. We can't even see the believer.
...but why do we need to see all that? What do you mean by SEE? Seeing, per se, is just one of the senses we have doing what it was meant to do. How do I "see" a thought beyond being unmistakably aware of one? How thoughts are created, which can also be sounds as in music, is a question which has its roots in the physiology of the brain. Life, death, consciousness are physical processes though still encapsulated in many mysteries. Dreams, neither limited by space or time, are very potent examples of those mysteries. They contain the great irony that the dream is never a mystery to itself and never felt as such while dreaming. But once daylight distances the dreamer from the dream what remains is incomprehensibility and of something vastly impersonal going on in the background of one's being. They are mysteries precisely because we "see" and sense them, the unconscious being the internal quantum field which creates them. It's what Jung called the "Spiritus Rector of all biological and psychic events".
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Re: Do you believe in yourself?

Post by Dontaskme »

Dubious wrote: Wed Jun 14, 2017 9:38 am
Dontaskme wrote: Wed Jun 14, 2017 6:15 am We cannot see thoughts, or feelings, we cannot see the meanings of every word we make up..we cannot see love,or death, or life ..no thing has ever been seen directly, we just believe those things exist. We can't even see the believer.
...but why do we need to see all that? What do you mean by SEE? Seeing, per se, is just one of the senses we have doing what it was meant to do. How do I "see" a thought beyond being unmistakably aware of one? How thoughts are created, which can also be sounds as in music, is a question which has its roots in the physiology of the brain. Life, death, consciousness are physical processes though still encapsulated in many mysteries. Dreams, neither limited by space or time, are very potent examples of those mysteries. They contain the great irony that the dream is never a mystery to itself and never felt as such while dreaming. But once daylight distances the dreamer from the dream what remains is incomprehensibility and of something vastly impersonal going on in the background of one's being. They are mysteries precisely because we "see" and sense them, the unconscious being the internal quantum field which creates them. It's what Jung called the "Spiritus Rector of all biological and psychic events".
What do I mean by see is to see the invisible, to see that the individual self is an illusion, when that is seen by no one, all delusion falls away and the ever shining clarity is revealed for the first time and last time.
Last edited by Dontaskme on Wed Jun 14, 2017 10:28 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Do you believe in yourself?

Post by Dontaskme »

Greta wrote: Wed Jun 14, 2017 8:08 am
I don't think you addressed osgart's reasonable point. No doubt that our minds play a huge role in how pain affects us. So, the muscle burn that you don't worry about after exercise would be a concern if the pain appeared without obvious cause in the middle of the might. The experience of the pain would be very different but the pain's reality - and refusal to be rationalised away - is solid.
Not sure why you seem to think I'm dissing things away in my writings. But I can understand it from your point of view. My points of view must seem confusing to some. But that's just the way it is.


My opinion is that Pain is a positive, illness and disease are both positives, they inform all is not well with the body, pain is an energetic intelligence a warning sign that is an essential integral part of intelligent life.

I'm also talking about the individual self that cannot be seen, not the whole, the whole is solid enough, it's the stuff surrounding the whole that makes the whole knowable.

Illustrated as follows...http://i.vimeocdn.com/video/531753910_1280x720.jpg
Dubious
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Re: Do you believe in yourself?

Post by Dubious »

Dontaskme wrote: Wed Jun 14, 2017 10:14 am What do I mean by see is to see the invisible, to see that the individual self is an illusion, when that is seen by no one, all delusion falls away and the ever shining clarity is revealed for the first time and last time.
My position on that is simply this. An illusion which questions itself as to whether it is an illusion is one which has breached itself into a reality. This is a view from the bottom up starting with one's individual self as an illusion...if we make that assumption; yours is from the top down beginning with the seeming reality then stripping away its facade to reveal the "shining clarity" as you say. In other words, they amount to the same thing starting from different ends.
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Re: Do you believe in yourself?

Post by Dontaskme »

Dubious wrote: Thu Jun 15, 2017 2:13 am
Dontaskme wrote: Wed Jun 14, 2017 10:14 am What do I mean by see is to see the invisible, to see that the individual self is an illusion, when that is seen by no one, all delusion falls away and the ever shining clarity is revealed for the first time and last time.
My position on that is simply this. An illusion which questions itself as to whether it is an illusion is one which has breached itself into a reality. This is a view from the bottom up starting with one's individual self as an illusion...if we make that assumption; yours is from the top down beginning with the seeming reality then stripping away its facade to reveal the "shining clarity" as you say. In other words, they amount to the same thing starting from different ends.
I absolutely agree so thanks for sharing your wonderful idea from your end. :D
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Re: Do you believe in yourself?

Post by haribol acharya »

This is a philosophical question and most of what is said and could be said are assumptive, that is to say, there can be no benchmarks other than sensory perceptions. In Hinduism all we see is or do is nothing other than the spider's net and the net is expanded or contracted depending on the desire of the spider. In like manner God or something else in the universe creates and destroys. Since everything we see around is ephemeral the existence of the individual is also questionable. When I am writing this piece now it seems I do exist but when I look at myself from a universal prism this phenomenon is debatable.
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Re: Do you believe in yourself?

Post by Dontaskme »

haribol acharya wrote: Thu Jun 15, 2017 7:02 am This is a philosophical question and most of what is said and could be said are assumptive, that is to say, there can be no benchmarks other than sensory perceptions. In Hinduism all we see is or do is nothing other than the spider's net and the net is expanded or contracted depending on the desire of the spider. In like manner God or something else in the universe creates and destroys. Since everything we see around is ephemeral the existence of the individual is also questionable. When I am writing this piece now it seems I do exist but when I look at myself from a universal prism this phenomenon is debatable.
I agree with your views also, thanks.
osgart
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Re: Do you believe in yourself?

Post by osgart »

the intelligence that made us must have been around forever if an intelligence did make us and we are not a fluke emergence.

but we can't be a fluke emergence because their is a logic to our existence.

nothing ideal about the intelligence.

this is no illusion. if it were an illusion, we would just fade away in an instant.

illusions are real. The air craft didn't make itself, no.
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