Why relativity is an illusion.

So what's really going on?

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Dontaskme
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Re: Why relativity is an illusion.

Post by Dontaskme »

Immanuel Can wrote:
We have no "referee." In the absence of reason and evidence, who will declare when a point is going to count in terms of making any progress? :shock:
Life is always a work in progress.....it can never complete, since it's always in constant flux/change...there is no end of a circle so to speak...so why worry about keeping score, you will become aware soon enough after progress is made, never before it is made. It will become apparent to you in the immediate moment it happens one with the knowing.

But at least you've admitted there is no referee. Although there is inference. So who's doing the inference ? If you can't answer that or find that one, then the idea there is an entity pre-existing ''thought'' is a presumption/inference that's appearing in the immediate moment, and not as a pre-meditated action.

You are still assuming there needs to be a reason and some evidence for your existence. Who is demanding reason and evidence, isn't it clear that existence is already the case, as self evidently here? Now, the dilemma is to find the beginning of the 'entity' who is going to validate existence as being your entity. Can you do that? if you can then that will be your evidence of an actually entity surely?

If you cannot find the beginning to or of you, then who or what are you?


I will await your answers?
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Dontaskme
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Re: Why relativity is an illusion.

Post by Dontaskme »

Noax wrote:
Dontaskme wrote:But then doesn't the 'someone' arise in the same moment as the 'thought' ?... for how else could a 'someone' be known .. if it's not the known thought itself arising in the same instant?

If the 'someone' and the 'thought' arise mutually in the same moment.. then it is thought itself that creates a thinker? Absence of 'thought' where is the thinker? Any thinker had to be a thought. The thinking is the thinker itself. The thinker cannot get rid of the thought, they come together as one conjoined package.
In other words, no one is thinking...there's just thinking ?
I rarely can parse, let along agree with, your posts. I notice this one got no reply. Perhaps it is not so easily refuted. I notice IC only replying to one-line snippets pulled out of context after this.
Thanks for the observation. You are right it is difficult to refute. Simply because nothing can capture this immediate moment. There is no one here to capture it. When you express a point of view on certain topics, opinions are seen to be uttered simply based on one's previous conditioning, based on beliefs of how things are or should be, rather than how they actually are. There is no one thinking in the immediate moment, actions happen spontaneously without any thought inferred. There is no ''I'' in thought.There are only thought processes happening that are built on the idea that there is such an entity as a self/I?

Creation, really is born in the immediate moment. What is looked at ''out-there'' is frozen thought..frozen in time and space...in other words dead. What can be seen and known is dead, what cannot be seen and known is alive...metaphorically speaking. I don't think there are many people that will understand that.
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Immanuel Can
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Re: Why relativity is an illusion.

Post by Immanuel Can »

Dontaskme wrote:But at least you've admitted there is no referee.
Oh, I do NOT.

All I say is that you have denied us the possibility of finding one acceptable to us both. Whether or not one actually exists anyway has nothing to do with whether or not you happen to be willing to admit there is one.

I would argue that reason and evidence are the kinds of things we should be using. And I think you're just plain wrong to think otherwise.

I hope that clarifies my actual position.
I will await your answers?
I'll make that my last one. No referees allowed (by your choice, not mine) means no point: there's no going forward.
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Dontaskme
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Re: Why relativity is an illusion.

Post by Dontaskme »

Immanuel Can wrote:
I would argue that reason and evidence are the kinds of things we should be using. And I think you're just plain wrong to think otherwise.

I hope that clarifies my actual position.
Actual reality (actual experience ) is sound, thought, colour, smell, taste and sensation to name but a few. These have always been here but have never been experienced by a separate self...because every ''apparent other'' living sentient creature is functioning exactly the same way. No proof necessary. But good luck trying to find the ''ACTUAL 'ONE'' to whom is experiencing such phenomena. To find that one as the evidence to the ''whom'' in question would require some ''other'' one outside of what is already experiencing life. Who would that be? is there two lifes here? Any idea about that one would be an add on, a made-up, a totally and utterly fabricated imagined entity. I hope that clarifies my non-position.
Immanuel Can wrote:I'll make that my last one. No referees allowed (by your choice, not mine) means no point: there's no going forward.
You are losing sight of what's actually being discussed here. Life is moving forward endlessly with or without your consent. There is no solid fixed you existing in life, everything is constantly changing. The you existing now is like a splash of water colour upon a rushing river.

My point is..There's no ''I'' existing in thought, there are only thought processes happening that are built on the idea that there is such an entity as a self/I?

Any referee would be a memory, a stone dead virtual memory, but handy in that it is a useful tool for any re-cognition to take place of an experience ever having happened. The phantom self continually dips into it's artificially invented archive of it's assumed self via the memory in order to give autonomy and continuity to the still, empty blank, ever present immediate moment that can only be filled with the total recall of memory. The virtual sense of ''I'' plucked from this infinite store-house of memory is the only self available that gives you the sense of living life now and now and now ..... :shock:

Dear IC..you are on a metaphysical thread, what do you except from me? :shock: If you're not comfortable with what you are supposed to be talking about... then move on to something you are... :idea:
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Dontaskme
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Re: Why relativity is an illusion.

Post by Dontaskme »

Immanuel Can wrote: Either you need to become rational in your claims, or evidentiary in your treatment of the subject, or I need to develop an enthusiasm for gnostic rhetoric.

There is nothing rational about talking about the concept that all is oneness.

The ego fights tooth and nail to exist, and always want's to believe it lives. So the ego aka wave ...will always rule the ocean, but only because the ocean already knows it is the wave and the ocean as one, so it lets the wave play it's game of wanting to be a separate ruler.

As for gnostic rhetoric, I agree, you have to practice what you preach. No commercial airline pilot ever got to their position without many years of study and practice in a simulator :shock: ..no input, no output.

There's no output without input. Output can be seen and known, but not what's inputting the output...so that should tell you everything you need to know about the output :shock: :evil:
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Noax
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Re: Why relativity is an illusion.

Post by Noax »

Dontaskme wrote:Thanks for the observation. You are right it is difficult to refute. Simply because nothing can capture this immediate moment. There is no one here to capture it. When you express a point of view on certain topics, opinions are seen to be uttered simply based on one's previous conditioning, based on beliefs of how things are or should be, rather than how they actually are.
Indeed, opinions are based on beliefs, not truth. But truth is unknowable, and you seem to do exactly what you criticize here: declaring that there is no one here to capture this immediate moment. Isn't that just as much an unfounded assumption as the more common view of a sort of persistent homunculus doing the capturing of the moment?

My view, not asserted, is that there is a thinker of thoughts, but not one which is in any way persistent.
Creation, really is born in the immediate moment. What is looked at ''out-there'' is frozen thought..frozen in time and space...in other words dead. What can be seen and known is dead, what cannot be seen and known is alive...metaphorically speaking. I don't think there are many people that will understand that.
You want to ease suffering of others by having them take this view? Not saying it is wrong, but it seems to conflict with your other thread.

I think I understand it, and I even find an alien peace to it more than I do with the promise of an endless orgasmic afterlife.
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Dontaskme
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Re: Why relativity is an illusion.

Post by Dontaskme »

Noax wrote:
My view, not asserted, is that there is a thinker of thoughts, but not one which is in any way persistent.
Thoughts appear.

If thoughts appear in a human, please tell me, does that mean the human is thinking the thought?
Noax wrote:But truth is unknowable, and you seem to do exactly what you criticize here: declaring that there is no one here to capture this immediate moment. Isn't that just as much an unfounded assumption as the more common view of a sort of persistent homunculus doing the capturing of the moment?
Truth is unknowable only in the context of what is known, what is known is illusory which brings one to truth.

There's only concepts and opinions appearing from, to and in no thing.
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Noax
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Re: Why relativity is an illusion.

Post by Noax »

Dontaskme wrote:Thoughts appear.

If thoughts appear in a human, please tell me, does that mean the human is thinking the thought?
You tell me. I didn't say that thoughts appear.
Richardovellee
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Why relativity is an illusion

Post by Richardovellee »

Now the video has at least 100 reasons why evolution is stupid. Can you take one and debunk it? Just ONE.
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Dontaskme
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Re: Why relativity is an illusion

Post by Dontaskme »

Richardovellee wrote:Now the video has at least 100 reasons why evolution is stupid. Can you take one and debunk it? Just ONE.
One debunks everything you have ever thought about yourself and the world you live in.
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