bahman wrote:ken wrote:
bahman wrote:
This means that we have an extra sense specialized to experience self. Is that what you suggest?
Yes, exactly.
What is that sense?
As you have just said and I agreed to that we have an
extra sense, therefore if we logically follow on after the five and fifth sense that we are aware of, then that sense must be the sixth sense.
What that actually is and how it actually works I think would take too long for Me to explain it here fully in a forum like this.
bahman wrote:ken wrote:
bahman wrote:
Yes, that sentence is right. I am simply saying that what you experience is simply a sense of self. In simple word, your brain constructs a mental state, sense of self.
If you believe your brain constructs a mental state, sense of self, then what has that got to do with self-awareness?
We experience sense of self directly since it is a mental state so we are self aware. But this doesn't mean that we have self.
There are three things here:
1. You say, "... so we are self aware." If that is so, then what is the answer to who am I (the Self)? If you can not answer that, then 'you' are not self aware. Although that is not to say that I am not self aware. So, please be careful when you use the 'we' word.
2. You say, "But this doesn't mean we have self", by using the 'we' word here implies 'it' is an actual self. By actually stating the words 'we', 'I', or 'you', and them has having or not having something, this infers that there is an actual thing, a self. If this is not true, then what do you mean when you use the words 'we', 'I', and 'you'? What do those words refer to?
3. Here you say, "... so we are self aware", but in reply to hexhammer you say, "You are not really self-aware...", either you are suggesting that hexhammer is not really self aware but bahman and ken are self aware, or, you are not totally sure if 'we', human beings, are self aware or are not self aware. If you want to be understood, then you will need to clear this up for us.
bahman wrote:ken wrote:
bahman wrote:
You don't have any other option at least within materialism/monism. Everything is matter in materialism framework which means that we don't have self within this framework so the self must be created by brain and then be experienced by brain.
Why would any sane person follow any one form of ism?
Well, we need to discuss different system of believes.
But there is only one system of belief - generally known as the belief system - is there not?
A person either believes or does not. What an adult chooses to or wants to believe (in), or not believe (in), is a totally free choice they themselves make.
bahman wrote:ken wrote:
Until you know what self is you would be wrong to assume 'you' have a self and a body.
Dualism is simply an system of belief. We need to discuss it to see whether it allows us to have a sense of self.
Dualism and monism BOTH are necessary to fully explain and understand how two senses of things actually does exist and how there is a self and a Self. The who i think i am self is very much different than the who I really am Self is. This is only fully understood in conjunction with and when understanding how the Mind and the brain work exactly. Parts of both dualism and monism both help in explaining how the Mind and the brain work.
bahman wrote:ken wrote:
bahman wrote:Self cannot experience anything without body and body again grants five senses which each is specialised to experience specific thing but self.
Thus the reason not to assume anything based on what has come through from the five senses.
What do you mean?
If, as you suggest, each of the five senses is specialized to experience a specific thing
but self, then assuming you could arrive at actually discovering and knowing a self or discovering and knowing a sense of self from the information/knowledge that has been grasped by any or all of those five senses just does not make any sense at all. To be able to answer the question who am I, for once and for all, and thus fully understand and be fully self aware, then a new way or new sense, like a sixth sense, is needed.
All of this is very easily achieved, uncovered, and understood with the right know how, but how to explain it to others who a not prepared to or unwilling to learn any of this is another matter.