What is the use of self?

So what's really going on?

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ken
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Re: What is the use of self?

Post by ken »

Ginkgo wrote:
Btw I think you make a good point when you say a child can experience his/her environment even before they open their eyes. They probably experience being in the womb.
Just to make things clear for everyone. I never made the point above. I never stated anything either way. I just asked you an open clarifying question, and if and when you answer the question openly and honestly, like you did in privacy, then you made the right answer. So, you come to and realize the good point by yourself.

Nearly ALL and every question I ask here in this forum is asked in the same way, that is in a truly open way, with no preconceived ides nor thoughts of what the answer is. I just ask questions in order to gain an understanding of what the person is seeing and where they are coming from. I do this so that both I and them can gain far more clarity and understanding of what the idea is that they are actually putting forward.

For example I am doing this in another post reagarding the differences in races and cultures. I asked openly what are the actual differnces that they see. I am still waiting for an answer.
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GreatandWiseTrixie
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Re: What is the use of self?

Post by GreatandWiseTrixie »

Self isn't really a definable construct. Consciousness exists by definition, because it is existence (Causes existence, caused by existence.)

The ability to perceive past and future is key to the perception of boundaries between the internal and external (skull.) We view a table as not our "self" because of our ability to memorize the fact that the table being altered is not linked to our physical senses and will not return any further stimulus other than visual. Furthermore, our ability for abstract conceptual thought (past and future) associates our avatar bodies as our selves (because of persistent assumption of future appearances of our avatar bodies in mirrors or reflection devices.)

Again, self doesn't really exist in the conventional sense of the word. But it is the result of conceptual ability to exceed the bounds of the "Now" (persistent assumption of future affects of various stimuli. Stimuli without the weighted potentials are perceived as not connected to the self, especially when not localized or linked to the avatar's xyz coordinates.) Self doesn't exist in the conventional sense, it is constantly changing and formless (due the imagination, the non constance of mirrors and the toggleablity of the visual field.)

Possessions, such as property, a semi-extension of the self, a semi-self. Higher weighted potentials but steady xyz linkage to the bounded avatar is not required.

To possess as in a spirit, first Consciousness must be unbounded from the current avatar. Debate is whether or not the new Avatar will be the ruler (Consciousness without transferable personality) or that Consciousness has inherent properties that would hijack and dominate the new Avatar's paradigms and commands.
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waechter418
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Re: What is the use of self?

Post by waechter418 »

bahman wrote:We know that any system is functional if it does X by receiving Y, where X is a set of actions (output) and Y is a set of stimulus (input). The question is what is the use of self if the system, human for example, can function without it?
What is the use of an ant if nature can function without it ?
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bahman
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Re: What is the use of self?

Post by bahman »

waechter418 wrote:
bahman wrote: We know that any system is functional if it does X by receiving Y, where X is a set of actions (output) and Y is a set of stimulus (input). The question is what is the use of self if the system, human for example, can function without it?
What is the use of an ant if nature can function without it ?
What if us including ants only function?
Ginkgo
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Re: What is the use of self?

Post by Ginkgo »

bahman wrote:
waechter418 wrote:
bahman wrote: We know that any system is functional if it does X by receiving Y, where X is a set of actions (output) and Y is a set of stimulus (input). The question is what is the use of self if the system, human for example, can function without it?
What is the use of an ant if nature can function without it ?
What if us including ants only function?
I think there is a self because there is something it is like to be you or me. Some commentators argue that the self delivers the world not the individual.
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henry quirk
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Post by henry quirk »

"Some commentators argue that the self delivers the world not the individual."

And some folks argue...

The human individual and (that particular example, expression of) 'self' are synonomous.

...and...

The world, within which we (you, me, him, her) are situated, exists independent of us (you, me, him, her).

That is: the hunan individual delivers nuthin' but instead utilizes what's already there.
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waechter418
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Re:

Post by waechter418 »

henry quirk wrote: the hunan individual delivers nuthin' but instead utilizes what's already there.
....which requires an awareness, in some cases even the decision making of the "individual", and thus a kind of self-consciousness, which may be derived from "whats already there, or stem from a self-contained unity i.e. individual (Lat: undivided)
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waechter418
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Re: What is the use of self?

Post by waechter418 »

bahman wrote:
waechter418 wrote:
bahman wrote: We know that any system is functional if it does X by receiving Y, where X is a set of actions (output) and Y is a set of stimulus (input). The question is what is the use of self if the system, human for example, can function without it?
What is the use of an ant if nature can function without it ?
What if us including ants only function?
A boring perspective, even though it implies consciousness :wink:
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waechter418
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Re: What is the use of self?

Post by waechter418 »

GreatandWiseTrixie wrote:)

Again, self doesn't really exist in the conventional sense of the word. But it is the result of conceptual ability to exceed the bounds of the "Now"
Since "Now" has no time (nor space) bounds - "Self" may be its essence (or Point of View)
osgart
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Re: What is the use of self?

Post by osgart »

who has right to enjoy life more than another? let that person do so. The self is for the other. The self use is for the benefit of all . this world wasted a lot of selves. I truly think the main goal of society should be to help people help other people.
that is what the self is for. only so much time. might as well take joy in work and mind your inner circles. And be respectful to all those outer circles.
one time or many anyone can choose to help others and make a difference.
Belinda
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Re: What is the use of self?

Post by Belinda »

osgart wrote:who has right to enjoy life more than another? let that person do so. The self is for the other. The self use is for the benefit of all . this world wasted a lot of selves. I truly think the main goal of society should be to help people help other people.
that is what the self is for. only so much time. might as well take joy in work and mind your inner circles. And be respectful to all those outer circles.
one time or many anyone can choose to help others and make a difference.
I appreciate both your idea and your plain and :) explicit language.
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Dontaskme
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Re: What is the use of self?

Post by Dontaskme »

Belinda wrote:
osgart wrote:who has right to enjoy life more than another? let that person do so. The self is for the other. The self use is for the benefit of all . this world wasted a lot of selves. I truly think the main goal of society should be to help people help other people.
that is what the self is for. only so much time. might as well take joy in work and mind your inner circles. And be respectful to all those outer circles.
one time or many anyone can choose to help others and make a difference.
I appreciate both your idea and your plain and :) explicit language.

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/or ... 9ecfb1.jpg

If like you say the Bible is load of old crock then why do you think the legal eagles use it in a human court of law to swear an oath in honor of truth and justice?

Look forward to your reply .. :mrgreen:
Belinda
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Re: What is the use of self?

Post by Belinda »

Dontaskme wrote:
If like you say the Bible is load of old crock then why do you think the legal eagles use it in a human court of law to swear an oath in honor of truth and justice?

Look forward to your reply .. :mrgreen:
The law does follow current morality although the law takes some time to adjust to current morality.

The ritual of swearing oaths in a court of law take from old historical practises that are often based in religious beliefs.

I did not say The Bible is what you wrote. The Bible is a collection of works by different authors and editors.There is a lot of good stuff in The Bible . I recommended The Book of Job in my post in another thread a few minutes ago. However The Bible is composed by human authors, not by God.

It is dangerous to believe that The Bible is composed by God, because there are a lot of very bad examples of very nasty ancient heroes in The Bible.
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Dontaskme
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Re: What is the use of self?

Post by Dontaskme »

Belinda wrote:Dontaskme wrote:
If like you say the Bible is load of old crock then why do you think the legal eagles use it in a human court of law to swear an oath in honor of truth and justice?

Look forward to your reply .. :mrgreen:
The law does follow current morality although the law takes some time to adjust to current morality.

The ritual of swearing oaths in a court of law take from old historical practises that are often based in religious beliefs.

I did not say The Bible is what you wrote. The Bible is a collection of works by different authors and editors.There is a lot of good stuff in The Bible . I recommended The Book of Job in my post in another thread a few minutes ago. However The Bible is composed by human authors, not by God.

It is dangerous to believe that The Bible is composed by God, because there are a lot of very bad examples of very nasty ancient heroes in The Bible.
Thanks for your reply, but why not just rely on the white wigged judges and jury to pass judgement on a human ..why include the bible if the bible was only authored by humans anyway, what benefit would a book authored by humans amount to, surely that would be like swearing on a copy of Beauty and the Beast and other fairy tales... why wouldn't they just trust in their own judgement ..why the need for the ritual? why include the Bible to support the evidence as to if one is telling the truth or a big fat porky lie or not....this all sounds a bit fishy to me...
osgart
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Re: What is the use of self?

Post by osgart »

the Bible signifies for them the higher eternal authority . I can't believe they still sware an oath on it in a court of law. I suppose it depends on the judge you get.
it used to deliver a profound effect. As if your eternal soul was on the line because of it.

The framers of the Constitution firmly believed that man is corruptible ; by way of their Christian convictions. in a major sense it's true of so many humans that immorality must never go unchecked by law. They were wary of the fact that power corrupts.
So the American government is founded on the bible's teachings that human nature is sinful.
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