But how can "choices, actions and intentions" be "causal states in themselves," from a Determinist perspective? After all Determinism is going to have to say they are not "in themselves" anything but the products of prior impersonal forces. Human volition doesn't "start" anything, in Determinism, nor does it even change the dynamics of what is happening. There is no mysterious property like "will" that has any independent ability to initiate.MustaphaTheMond wrote:You could indeed argue that everything is hopeless and pointless, or you could take the view that your choices, actions, intentions are still very real causal states themselves (which have also been caused); which lead to real outcomes in the universe. To realise the truth of determinism does not equate falling into fatalism.Dalek Prime wrote:Just made me think of determinism again. If your a determinist, even the first time through is hopeless. Everything is planned for you. So the rest is just pointless gravy. How funny is that?
Fatalism may not always be the route the Determinist wants to choose: but it's the road he's forced down if he retains any desire to follow the logic of his own position. He can only avoid Fatalism by being rationally inconsistent with his own claims.
Which, of course, Determinists generally choose to be, in my experience; and no wonder, for the strict logic of their position is actually hideous in consequence.