''Something'' and ''Nothing'' are the same ONE

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Beauty
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Re: ''Something'' and ''Nothing'' are the same ONE

Post by Beauty »

Dontaskme you say, while the no thing in which things appear is permanent. No thing is permanent. I think it's Buddha who said that everything is impermanent, which is to say that nothing is permanent. Now this no thing or in other words emptiness you talk about, as being permanent, if that was true it would go mad in the world always there, trust me. There is nothing in the world that is permanent, everything changes. "Change is the law of nature," and so you must not remain adamant about the no thing (emptiness), that that is always there as a reality, for it is not. By the way if no thing or in other words emptiness as you mean is permanent, how come all this life and things are there, for it is certainly not emptiness? Are you and me emptiness? Are the things around us emptiness? Etcetera.....No. They are not emptiness. So emptiness - no thing, is not permanent, for then it would be the only thing existent, but it is not, we are too. "Change is the law of nature," tells us all that everything must change, and it is in everyone's and everything's best interest that that happen, that is all I'm trying to say. Also, if you mean by no thing that it is permanent like the empty space in a box where I have a bangle as well, then this no thing would be the ever existent thing. But change being the law of nature, nothing is forever existent. So emptiness, we, things come and go. I just filled the emptiness of the box above with water, now where is the no thing or emptiness? So emptiness comes and goes, we come and go, things come and go and so forth. Everything changes. And so "Life goes on," or it would become stagnant, and so life is happy. Also, as an after thought, me to be born in the world, need space - empty space, so I would be first, empty space would be afterwards, so it seems the Spirit occupying no space is first. We need to understand the Spirit. Currently we understand the Physical. Emptiness is physical for we can see it, Spirit cannot be seen, or the spiritual cannot be seen by the physical. You are only considering seeing the empty space that that is the initial reality of the world, but you haven't seen the spirit or the spiritual. So let's just agree on the fact that, "Change is the law of nature," and nature incorporates both realms - the physical and the spiritual. Can we null&void the reality of what cannot be seen? The spiritual realm? No!
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Dontaskme
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Re: ''Something'' and ''Nothing'' are the same ONE

Post by Dontaskme »

Beauty you are completely misinterpreting what I am talking about.
I said ''thing's' come and go in that which is not a 'thing' - And that the no thing in which 'things' appear is permanent because it's not a thing.And that the appearances themselves aka 'things' are not permanent. Things are 'thoughts' arising in that which is not a thought or thing..

I think it best we both just shut up else we'll keep going round in endless circles.

But thanks for your input. You can continue to express your opinions here and I will gladly read them, but I'm not going to be responding to them any more. I can no more understand how you see your reality, than you can understand how I see mine. So be it. Let it be. Each perspective is unique to the beholder.

You were right about these kinds of circumstances being pointless. All we are doing is trying to point to the ineffable with words, pointless indeed.

Words are so restricted.

''There are some people who could hear you speak a thousand words and still not understand you. And there are others who will understand without you even speaking a word.''

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Beauty
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Re: ''Something'' and ''Nothing'' are the same ONE

Post by Beauty »

Beauty wrote:
Let me explain why you are here, who you are, where you are and what you are. It goes as follows:
Earth is like a prison but let's call it exile. In actuality it is Hell. We are all from Heaven due to sinning in thinking there. Interference in another's life with wicked pleasure as intent behind it, is wickedness, and is classified sin. Or in other words wickedness in thinking and/or wickedness in action is sin. Sin brings us down from Heaven into Hell. The sinful dues upon all of us paid, we are back in Heaven. It is quite apparent that if we are wicked here again, then we return to Hell again with a birth & death cycle where life is to learn, not to sin. "For the wages of sin is death." "Know ye not that ye are all Gods, and the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?" We are in Hell. We are classified Devils while we are in Hell, even though we may be morally good now, but due to past sinful dues upon all of us to pay for, we are called Devils in Hell. When we go to Heaven, then we are classified Gods in Heaven. Jesus was a fallen Almighty God, others are fallen Gods here in Hell. "Jesus is risen," we must rise too. "The way" - the way to Heaven, is holiness, no wickedness in thinking and no wickedness in action, or we can also say, all sinful dues paid, we are out of prison/exile/Hell, and back home into Heaven from where we originally are. "I am the way and the truth and the life." The way to Heaven is truth - no wickedness. All sinful dues paid, we have life - eternal life - life in Heaven.

So Dontaskme, you are not just sitting around here on earth but paying your respected dues as we all are too, those paid, we get entry back into Heaven. On the rest, I will comment later.
Leave the debate by all means, but before you leave this debate, also give thought to my words above, as to the exact reason why you want to leave is because you came to know the small mystery - the mystery of Hell, by me. By the way above is just an excerpt from my work of enlightenment of years long, it is only a drop in the ocean comparably.
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Re: ''Something'' and ''Nothing'' are the same ONE

Post by Beauty »

So Dontaskme you are saying that this emptiness-no thing, is not a thing and is permanent whereas everything else is thing and comes and goes. Everything else is thoughts/things arising in that which is not thing. So what is it? Does it have a name?

I never said anywhere, You were right about these kinds of circumstances being pointless.


Also, when we are right, all will hear us. Also people are only as important as we are, don't forget that.

As for Paulo Coelho saying, "Don't waste you time with explanations: People only hear what they want to hear." I only want to say this, that the wicked/ignorant will not give heed to what you say, but the good/intelligent/wise will always listen.
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Re: ''Something'' and ''Nothing'' are the same ONE

Post by Dontaskme »

Beauty wrote:So Dontaskme you are saying that this emptiness-no thing, is not a thing and is permanent whereas everything else is thing and comes and goes. Everything else is thoughts/things arising in that which is not thing. So what is it? Does it have a name?
IT doesn't have a name, shape, or essence. But the named & nameless have to exist in the same moment else nothing would be known. Nothing can be known without it's opposite existing in the same moment.

The truth of who or what 'I AM' is without opposite. IT is Non-dual.

The knower of opposites is knowledge. Knowledge is merely imputed and has no essence. It's a trickless trick in that the knowledge gives birth to an assumed knower. So the knower IS born only of the knowledge(mind) otherwise IT doesn't exist. But this birth is an illusion. In truth no thing is born because no thing is dead. There's just life living itself.

The idea that I AM a man or a woman or a child is of the mind, it's an assumption, an idea, a conceptual impute without essence. The mind of worldly beings are mistaken. There IS only Empty I AM -ness in which I appear. The 'appearance' (I) and the 'I AM-ness' in which I appear are the same ONE appearing as two. It couldn't have been any other way.

Appearances are mirages...because EVERY THING is sourced within itself which is emptiness...appearing as if there are two...as in the seer and the seen, the knower and the known. But the seeing is inseparable from the seen, and the knower is inseparable from the known. So 'things' are only illusions born of knowledge (mind), No one has ever seen a 'thing'...in the same context no one has ever seen a 'thought'...or a mind or a consciousness or an awareness for that matter.

And lets remember where the 'known things' come from again! ...knowledge, the known comes from knowledge, all knowledge is illusory, it has no essence. Same applies to the seer, where does the seer come from, it comes from the seen, where does the seen come from, it comes from knowledge. Reality is built purely of fiction (imagination) that has no essence because IT is ONE ..no one imagines this.

Now that does not mean that reality is nothing at all, the appearance of an image is very real, but there is no thing behind the image in the form of a thing or person being that thing or person, the thing or person exists as a conceptual idea known...aka (empty knowledge) There is no entity in life pulling the strings of things.


Beauty wrote:Also, when we are right, all will hear us. Also people are only as important as we are, don't forget that.
Yes I agree with you. We can only resonate with truth and love because that's who and what we are. It is impossible to resonate with a lie. If someone is living a lie then that someone's life would be like a living hell. No one can be in the true bliss of their natural self while living a lie. The one who has tasted the real self is truly home safely in the arms of the beloved. <<< (not many people are going to understand that, because the majority of people think love is something to be found in the world of things and others, without realising that's a lie, and that love is not a thing to get, and no one can give it to you, ...it is what you/ we are.

I've always known that the you is just another me. That we are both One in I AM-ness.
Beauty wrote:As for Paulo Coelho saying, "Don't waste you time with explanations: People only hear what they want to hear." I only want to say this, that the wicked/ignorant will not give heed to what you say, but the good/intelligent/wise will always listen.
Knowing can only come from listening. To listen is to be at one with the silent knower.
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Re: ''Something'' and ''Nothing'' are the same ONE

Post by Dontaskme »

Beauty wrote:
Beauty wrote:
Let me explain why you are here, who you are, where you are and what you are. It goes as follows:
Earth is like a prison but let's call it exile. In actuality it is Hell. We are all from Heaven due to sinning in thinking there. Interference in another's life with wicked pleasure as intent behind it, is wickedness, and is classified sin. Or in other words wickedness in thinking and/or wickedness in action is sin. Sin brings us down from Heaven into Hell. The sinful dues upon all of us paid, we are back in Heaven. It is quite apparent that if we are wicked here again, then we return to Hell again with a birth & death cycle where life is to learn, not to sin. "For the wages of sin is death." "Know ye not that ye are all Gods, and the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?" We are in Hell. We are classified Devils while we are in Hell, even though we may be morally good now, but due to past sinful dues upon all of us to pay for, we are called Devils in Hell. When we go to Heaven, then we are classified Gods in Heaven. Jesus was a fallen Almighty God, others are fallen Gods here in Hell. "Jesus is risen," we must rise too. "The way" - the way to Heaven, is holiness, no wickedness in thinking and no wickedness in action, or we can also say, all sinful dues paid, we are out of prison/exile/Hell, and back home into Heaven from where we originally are. "I am the way and the truth and the life." The way to Heaven is truth - no wickedness. All sinful dues paid, we have life - eternal life - life in Heaven.

So Dontaskme, you are not just sitting around here on earth but paying your respected dues as we all are too, those paid, we get entry back into Heaven. On the rest, I will comment later.
Leave the debate by all means, but before you leave this debate, also give thought to my words above, as to the exact reason why you want to leave is because you came to know the small mystery - the mystery of Hell, by me. By the way above is just an excerpt from my work of enlightenment of years long, it is only a drop in the ocean comparably.
Dear beauty, I'm not leaving the debate because I became aware of the mystery of hell. I actually completely and utterly understand everything you have written in the above quote regarding the idea of hell. But what I've discovered during my earthly sojourn is that we cannot get into heaven without first being dragged through hell. But in truth we have never left heaven. These places are not actually real, and only exist in the dream of separation/opposites. However, dreams are definitely here to stay, they are what's happening unavoidably, but the difference between a non-identified person and an identified person is the non-identified person will see through the illusion of ''other/self'' and will know there is only 'ONE SELF' experiencing itself as 'other' over and over again and again and again.

I am writing about the same idea as you, but I wouldn't put it in the same context as you, but what we are attempting to say in our words is of the same idea. When I read what you have written I see the exact same message as what I am attempting to convey as well.
But I don't use the religiously inclined connotations the way you use them because I know that most people are sick and tired of religious connotation simply because they take the words too literally. But please know that we are only using different analogies and terminologies to say the same thing. So I thank-you for your presence and your words here on this thread.

Carry on talking beauty - it's always nice to hear other peoples perspectives on the awakening mind. And I really do love it when I meet in realtime another awakened being......(even though it's all just a fictional story no one tells itself..LOL)

But lets pretend like little children, lets play make-belief and to know that we are always loved and at home with the beloved.
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Re: ''Something'' and ''Nothing'' are the same ONE

Post by Beauty »

I believe that we all came from nothing into something and being something, and that this coming is initially as spiritual quarks, whether the physical is made by formed spirit, I don't know of as yet, but from spiritual quarks, the spirit I believe gets made by itself, very similar to an idea coming to us itself. As the spirit came from quarks --> atoms --> molecules --> spiritual substance(spirit) forming itself eventually, so does idea come to spirit itself. Idea is spiritual - knowledge. Now, nothing is what we came from. Some will argue that nothing is nothing and so has nothing in it, so how could we come from it, but if we couldn't, then how would we go into becoming nothing, we would not. It seems then we would go, but only into the elements of this Cosmos' environment. But then we would have to say that the elements - basic elements of this Cosmos have always been in existence. Now either that is truth, or we come from nothing into quarks first - spiritual quarks - dot, line, curve, letters, words, phrases, sentences, paragraphs, essay, stories, books, databases of information, memory, thinking, feeling, understanding, spirit etcetera. And then the spirit makes the physical reality - dark, empty space, seed(coding the seed for the plant to sprout), its own physical body coding as to how it should come up. So whatever is truth is truth. In our life here, we do not see anything coming from nothing. We see things coming from something. When pen is here today gone tomorrow, then it has only gone to the elements of this Cosmic environment. But if we came from nothing - that is to say that energy(quarks(spiritual)) creates itself, and so would also be able to destroy itself. Only on that basis would our coming from nothing be, for how could we go into becoming virtually nothing, if we could not come from it, in the sense of energy destruction, energy creation respectively. In so much as the idea of energy - quarks coming up from nothing is unthinkable, but not any more so than an idea coming to us itself. Since idea coming from nowhere, nothing, to us is there, then we(spirit), coming from nothing must also be there, for spirit and idea are spiritual things, spiritual matter - there's thinking, feeling, understanding, database of information, memory, knowledge, the spiritual organ - mind that thinks, feels, understands etcetera, because spiritual matter is in nothing and nowhere. For example: I said a, where is it, the said a? Spirit, idea is like that - spiritual matter. This is how I believe are the two possibilities of the Cosmos coming up and going down. Since energy creation and destruction is not here on earth, but conservation is here, so we cannot understand our coming from nothing, in which case reality would be that this Cosmos always existed. How? The only answer would be beginning from spiritual quarks. Quarks are quantum particles, very minute, quantas of energy. Since we do not see the spirit, but due to that we cannot null&void its existence for we can feel it, therefore in the spiritual world, energy creation and destruction must be there. We have proof of that even - essay written, essay deleted.
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Re: ''Something'' and ''Nothing'' are the same ONE

Post by Dontaskme »

Beauty wrote:By the way above is just an excerpt from my work of enlightenment of years long, it is only a drop in the ocean comparably.
Well thanks for sharing here.

I understand when you use the drop in ocean analogy. It's like there is so much to say about this. For me, it's like an endless undoing of falsehoods to reach truth even though no thing has ever strayed from truth and love, it's always been here all along.The problem is God is not invisible,God is here now.God can never be invisible,it is (us) the fictional character that makes God seem invisible, this character has to die in order for God to reveal itself.The shadow has to stop eclipsing the sun so to speak...using the sun as an analogy, the sun has always existed behind every cloud, as it's ever self shining self. < ( just a metaphor)
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Re: ''Something'' and ''Nothing'' are the same ONE

Post by Beauty »

My dear Dontaskme,
God is in Heaven, Devil is in Hell. God does not go through pain/suffering, disease, death. Devil goes through pain/suffering, disease, death. Cause of suffering is wickedness/sin as also mistakes. God in Heaven is holy. Devil in Hell is classified unholy at least while in Hell, although inside, person may not be a Devil anymore, and so bound to go to Heaven after unholy/sinful dues paid. In Heaven there is joy/happiness and no pain/suffering, in Hell there is pain/suffering also together with joy/happiness. Evidently, we are all Devils in Hell. "For the wages of sin is death." We will all go through death. So God is not here. God is in Heaven. We are all Devils here, to go through death, as punishment for past life sin/s. All pain/suffering is due to wickedness and mistakes. For wickedness/sin there is incarceration in Hell, not for mistakes. No sin upon us and past dues all paid, we find ourselves in Heaven. This is truth. "Ye shall know truth and truth shall set ye free." Heaven is freedom from captivity/Hell/pain&suffering.
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Re: ''Something'' and ''Nothing'' are the same ONE

Post by Dontaskme »

Beauty wrote: God is in Heaven,
Non-identification with a separate 'me' called self. (wholeness, and abundance love)
Beauty wrote:Devil is in Hell.
Identification with separate self, aka 'me' (fear and lack)
Beauty wrote:God does not go through pain/suffering, disease, death.
No one ever suffered, pain is inevitable, it can arise anywhere, but no one ever suffered that pain, pain is not personal, pain is accepted as just happenstance.
Beauty wrote:Devil goes through pain/suffering, disease, death.
There is a 'me' to whom this pain is arising. And I don't like or want it...go away pain...this can't be happening to 'me'
Beauty wrote:Cause of suffering is wickedness/sin as also mistakes.
Life does not sin, neither does it make a mistake. A mistake is what should not have happened, what should not have happened is impossible.
Beauty wrote:God in Heaven is holy.
There is only here, and no one is in it, everything is it, it is neither holy, nor heaven except as conceptual idea.
Beauty wrote: Devil in Hell is classified unholy at least while in Hell, although inside, person may not be a Devil anymore, and so bound to go to Heaven after unholy/sinful dues paid.
The devil is God in disguise. God plays all parts, since there is only God. Therefore, there is no sacrifice to be made.

Beauty wrote:In Heaven there is joy/happiness and no pain/suffering, in Hell there is pain/suffering also together with joy/happiness.
There is only 'here now'where pain and joy arise and fall leaving no trace.

Beauty wrote: Evidently, we are all Devils in Hell. "For the wages of sin is death." We will all go through death.
There is no 'we' except as an idea. There is no death, for nothing was born. There is only life living itself, also known as God.

Beauty wrote:So God is not here. God is in Heaven.
God is a concept arising here. Here can be what ever this here imagines, God is not in heaven, heaven is in God..aka life... as a concept.
Beauty wrote:We are all Devils here, to go through death, as punishment for past life sin/s. All pain/suffering is due to wickedness and mistakes. For wickedness/sin there is incarceration in Hell, not for mistakes. No sin upon us and past dues all paid, we find ourselves in Heaven. This is truth. "Ye shall know truth and truth shall set ye free." Heaven is freedom from captivity/Hell/pain&suffering.
The only death the religions are talking about is the death of the ego self, or the assumed separate 'me'
Once this separate 'me' is seen through, then what's left is just life living itself. And that the idea there was a separate self living life was an illusion.Like I said earlier, life is not a sinner, if it was, the universes natural elements ie: category 5 hurricanes responsible for wreaking death and destruction to life on earth would be in prison for murder.
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Re: ''Something'' and ''Nothing'' are the same ONE

Post by Beauty »

My dear, I just gave you an insight into truth making us all free. I am pretty sure that if you would have complimented me on my beautiful, brilliant and informative posts, you would not look any lesser than me. I happen to believe that praising others we are not made small but we sit big. So how about some compliments as to my beautiful, brilliant and informative posts above? By the way, I see no point in more discussion here, so I'm going to leave this thread now and go to other threads. It was nice talking to you in this thread. Bye!
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Re: ''Something'' and ''Nothing'' are the same ONE

Post by Dontaskme »

Beauty wrote:My dear, I just gave you an insight into truth making us all free. I am pretty sure that if you would have complimented me on my beautiful, brilliant and informative posts, you would not look any lesser than me. I happen to believe that praising others we are not made small but we sit big. So how about some compliments as to my beautiful, brilliant and informative posts above? By the way, I see no point in more discussion here, so I'm going to leave this thread now and go to other threads. It was nice talking to you in this thread. Bye!
My dear, May I ask you where do you get all your ideas from for your enlightenment writing? have they come directly from you? or were you inspired from outside of you which triggered enlightenment thoughts in you? The reason I ask is because you could not have known the words Hell or Heaven or Sin if you hadn't read these words from a book or maybe someone else had spoken these words to you. Tell me, where did you get the words Hell, Heaven, and Sin from? were they your original thoughts, or are they second hand knowledge?

What I'm saying is there is no original thought. Only ignorance is original.
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Re: ''Something'' and ''Nothing'' are the same ONE

Post by Beauty »

Dontaskme wrote:
Beauty wrote:My dear, I just gave you an insight into truth making us all free. I am pretty sure that if you would have complimented me on my beautiful, brilliant and informative posts, you would not look any lesser than me. I happen to believe that praising others we are not made small but we sit big. So how about some compliments as to my beautiful, brilliant and informative posts above? By the way, I see no point in more discussion here, so I'm going to leave this thread now and go to other threads. It was nice talking to you in this thread. Bye!
My dear, May I ask you where do you get all your ideas from for your enlightenment writing? have they come directly from you? or were you inspired from outside of you which triggered enlightenment thoughts in you? The reason I ask is because you could not have known the words Hell or Heaven or Sin if you hadn't read these words from a book or maybe someone else had spoken these words to you. Tell me, where did you get the words Hell, Heaven, and Sin from? were they your original thoughts, or are they second hand knowledge?

What I'm saying is there is no original thought. Only ignorance is original.
Ignorance is original in the context where knowledge is next. Original thought is there in the context where next - second - another thought arises. How were the books written? Upon original thought? No? Yes! At least that is how it should be. So there must be a first person to whom the words Hell, Heaven and Sin came to as original thoughts. Original thought would have to be there, or so much knowledge afterwards in continuation could not be there. So like original ignorance is there, original thought is also there. And they both have their source in origin. So this world began from the origin. What does origin look like? Well definitely it would not be nothing because nothing itself originates from the origin, it's a concept in its own right, it's a word like any other word in the dictionary, and it means zero containing nothing. In the same way it can be argued that origin is also a word in the dictionary, but then it is origin - giving way to the origination of things. And how could it be from nothing? From zero? Not possible, or the definition of nothing/zero changes. So origin is something because this world/life is something and nothing is a concept in there.
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Re: ''Something'' and ''Nothing'' are the same ONE

Post by Dontaskme »

Beauty wrote:
Ignorance is original in the context where knowledge is next. Original thought is there in the context where next - second - another thought arises. How were the books written? Upon original thought? No? Yes! At least that is how it should be. So there must be a first person to whom the words Hell, Heaven and Sin came to as original thoughts. Original thought would have to be there, or so much knowledge afterwards in continuation could not be there. So like original ignorance is there, original thought is also there. And they both have their source in origin. So this world began from the origin. What does origin look like? Well definitely it would not be nothing because nothing itself originates from the origin, it's a concept in its own right, it's a word like any other word in the dictionary, and it means zero containing nothing. In the same way it can be argued that origin is also a word in the dictionary, but then it is origin - giving way to the origination of things. And how could it be from nothing? From zero? Not possible, or the definition of nothing/zero changes. So origin is something because this world/life is something and nothing is a concept in there.
I think I've already explained this to you before, but here it is again, since you seem to keep missing it.
There is only YOU but this you is not a thing. It's No Thing appearing as everything, same one.

There is no first person. You have never seen your original face, you only see your reflected face/mirage.

There is only you without beginning or end... unknown/unborn)

Knowledge of you is a mentally constructed thought, an appearance born(known) in the unborn/unknown you.... therefore the known you is a fiction. The unknown you is real.

You have always existed, but not in name and form. Your name and form is a fictional character arising in you.. You are the dreamer of the dream, and also the character in the dream, but the character is a fiction, and not who you really are. Characters come and go in you leaving no trace, while the real you never leaves. The dreamer is real, but the dreamer cannot be known by the character it dreams because the character doesn't know anything, it doesn't exist in and of itself, apart from the dreamer.

The dreamer awareness (real self) IS and is only known in relation to what it dreams, what it IS/NOT (fictional self) the relationship is an illusion of the ONE...A mirror image.
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Re: ''Something'' and ''Nothing'' are the same ONE

Post by Beauty »

So do you mean that we are No Thing - emptiness, appearing as Some Thing?
But then if we need to be non-existent then we just become no thing - emptiness again?
If your idea could be believed, you would still have to explain this no thing which you say is emptiness. Isn't emptiness also a thing? And the space in which the emptiness is contained is also a thing, so how can you say to all that that it is no thing? Obviously then we arise from something into something. And if we consider energy creation/formation then coming from nothing, nothing loses definition. So the only plausible explanation is that the universe/cosmos - basic elements, always existed, and we - things(life and things) come and go - existent or non-existent. Now the basic elements always there in this world existing of themselves, we do not understand. Dark is something always there because the sun out and darkness disappearing is only so long as light is there, for darkness is back once the sun is out, so it is always there, but not present in the presence of light. Like me absent from school yet there. So dark, cold is not Some Thing? Because they would be there in the emptiness. Besides as I already stated earlier, emptiness in itself is something, so your "Something" and "Nothing" are the same ONE has no meaning, unless we consider creation of energy from nothing which makes the definition of nothing become null and void and so consequently something also loses definition. Anyways I just wanted clarification on us coming from no thing - emptiness, from you first? What I am saying is that this emptiness - no thing is also something, so it's something from something, and so you have no argument at all because something and something is the same.
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