What does it mean "to Exist"?

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JSS
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What does it mean "to Exist"?

Post by JSS »

The Rational Foundation of Metaphysics

What is the essential property to which we refer when we say, "it exists"? That seems to have been a difficult question for thousands of years. If you look up the word "exist" in a dictionary, you can get a number of substitute words, but with each the question remains.
ex·ist (ĭg-zĭst′)
intr.v. ex·ist·ed, ex·ist·ing, ex·ists
1. To have actual being; be real.
2. To have life; live: one of the worst actors that ever existed.
3. To live at a minimal level; subsist: barely enough income on which to exist.
4. To continue to be; persist: old customs that still exist in rural areas.
5. To be present under certain circumstances or in a specified place; occur: "Wealth and poverty exist in every demographic category" (Thomas G. Exter).
All of those words correctly imply "to exist". Each can be used as substitute for "to exist". Yet none of them tell you of what it is. The "definitions" given carry no additional meaning. They aren't actual definitions or explanations, merely substitutes hinting at at a meaning. If one asks for the definition of "color", one gets an explanation involving light, not merely other words for "color".

And I found that if one proposes what it means to exist, one gets little more than argumentation; "How do you know?", "Maybe it means different things to different people", "It just is what it is", "It's just all in our minds". "It is just whatever is real".

Any word might mean different things to different people, but then without reasonably uniform definition, there is no language. And it seems to me that everyone throughout history, gauging from what they say concerning that which exists, has had one particular concern in mind, although never spoken. They argue that this exists or that exists. They argue about whether various kinds of things do or don't exist. But precisely how does one discern existence from non-existence? That has apparently been an illusive question that I propose to answer here and now.

There could possibly be many things meant by that fundamental word, but there is one thing I have found in common with all of the implications and inferences. In every case, when the word is used, the speaker seems to be saying that which exists has potential affect upon something and that which doesn't exist has no affect.

The concept "to affect" gives meaning to an otherwise elusive definition for "to exist". Affecting something directly implies changing it in some way, thus to exist implies the potential to change something, perhaps; block the light, weigh down the paper, inspire activity,.... And by consequence to affect something must include the potential to prevent a change that would have otherwise taken effect.

In addition there are practical issues involved. If something is said to exist yet is known to have absolutely no affect upon anything, why bother to say that it exists? Why even bother to be thinking about it? Billions of things could be mentioned which have absolutely no affect upon anything (eg. three headed elephants, whatever). The word and implication of "to exist" would lose all relevance if such things were to be included as being existent.

Thus to be rational, and since a common dictionary fails to sufficiently provide, one must declare his intent for the word, and preferably without deviating far from what others have actually always meant even though never really explaining.

So merely by declared definition with the following supportive rationale,
Existence is that which has affect or potential to affect.
  • a) Detectable Empiricism - We decide that something exists only when we detect that something is having affect. All of our senses function based on the affect that something else has upon them. We use equipment to increase our sensory ability, but still if nothing affects the equipment in any way, we declare that nothing was there.
    b) Common Usage - In reality, people are already using the word "exist" to mean this definition. They often never think about it, but in every case, the person really means that something having existence means that it has the potential to affect something; be seen, touched, smelled, or detected in some way even if not already detected.
    c) Support from Science - Science concluded long ago that in reality all existing things have at least some minuscule affect on all other things through chains of events.
    d) Rational Relevance - If something has truly no affect on anything whatsoever, we really don't care if it exists in any other sense. We can propose trillions of things that might exist but don't have affect. What would be the point? It would be a waste of mind time.
But affect upon what?

To exist means to affect, which means to cause change, but what is being changed? What is being affected?

The answer is simply "other existence" (eg. You). That is easy enough. But look more carefully at what that means.

It is saying that existence, the compendium of affects, is merely the affecting other affects, affect upon affect. And that is the fundamental essence of all existence. It can be no other.

The very foundation of Metaphysics:
Existence ≡ Affects upon affects, Affectance, whatever complexity arises from that fundamental essence, and nothing else.

The rest of the story involves:
1) How does one measure this Affectance? - "Science".
2) How long has this Affectance been around" - "Cosmology"
3) How can this Affectance lend to our knowledge? - "Epistemology"
4) How can this Affectance be organized and understood? - "Ontology".
5) How can an understanding of Affectance relate to our lives? - "Psychology", "Sociology", "Economics",...
Obvious Leo
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Re: What does it mean "to Exist"?

Post by Obvious Leo »

JSS. The tense of the verb is also relevant. I agree that in order for a physical entity to be said to exist it must be able to effect change in another physical entity which also exists. However such change must always proceed in an orderly and generative fashion in conformity with the order of time. Effects must always be preceded by causes and never the other way around. However to exist also means "to be in a state of existence" and this refers specifically to the present moment. One can't say I exist yesterday or I exist tomorrow because I only exist NOW. For sure I can say that I also existed yesterday and with luck I will also exist tomorrow but this is not to make the same statement about the nature of my existence. My state of existence today has been determined by the events which led up the present moment and by tomorrow an additional cascade of events will have contributed to my state of existence tomorrow. Physically I will not be the same Leo because in fact every atom which makes up the Leo I imagine myself to be is changing into a different atom at the speed of light. I am myself BECOMING and since I am simply composed of matter and energy like everything else in the universe what is true for me must be true for all of physical reality.

The universe is itself BECOMING. That's what it means to exist.
JSS
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Re: What does it mean "to Exist"?

Post by JSS »

Obvious Leo wrote:JSS. The tense of the verb is also relevant. I agree that in order for a physical entity to be said to exist it must be able to effect change in another physical entity which also exists. However such change must always proceed in an orderly and generative fashion in conformity with the order of time. Effects must always be preceded by causes and never the other way around. However to exist also means "to be in a state of existence" and this refers specifically to the present moment. One can't say I exist yesterday or I exist tomorrow because I only exist NOW. For sure I can say that I also existed yesterday and with luck I will also exist tomorrow but this is not to make the same statement about the nature of my existence. My state of existence today has been determined by the events which led up the present moment and by tomorrow an additional cascade of events will have contributed to my state of existence tomorrow. Physically I will not be the same Leo because in fact every atom which makes up the Leo I imagine myself to be is changing into a different atom at the speed of light. I am myself BECOMING and since I am simply composed of matter and energy like everything else in the universe what is true for me must be true for all of physical reality.
Until one knows what it is, it is pointless to wonder of when it happens.
Obvious Leo wrote:However to exist also means "to be in a state of existence"
A tautology.
Obvious Leo wrote:The universe is itself BECOMING. That's what it means to exist.
Another tautology: "becoming what? - Itself?"
Obvious Leo
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Re: What does it mean "to Exist"?

Post by Obvious Leo »

JSS wrote: Obvious Leo wrote:
The universe is itself BECOMING. That's what it means to exist.


Another tautology: "becoming what? - Itself?"
Becoming what is a stupid question which reveals your profound lack of understanding of the nature of determinism? This question was satisfactorily answered by a true metaphysical giantess of the 20th century.

"Que sera sera".....Doris Day.

Your mind is trapped in a Newtonian and creationist cul-de-sac.
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Greta
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Re: What does it mean "to Exist"?

Post by Greta »

Obvious Leo wrote:The universe is itself BECOMING. That's what it means to exist.
JSS wrote:... "becoming" what? - Itself?
Eventually not much, at least physically. It's what happens between birth and death that is of most interest to us. Every entity has its own "personal temporal Goldilocks zone" - a stage of existence that follows the chaotic tempest of formation and precedes decay and disintegration.

During that "mature" period a system becomes ever more integrated and complex as the information it encounters is accepted and builds up over time. During this optimal time span a system will "become ever more itself" unless it is damaged. Accretions build and break down, some persist more than others, and some take a more active role in their persistence than others.
JSS
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Re: What does it mean "to Exist"?

Post by JSS »

One obsessed with when it is, the other with what happens to it.

It is becoming the becoming of the becoming of the becoming and getting more and more complex as it becomes more of itself, the .. emm .. complex becoming.

The question was what is "it"?

Yeah affectance, affect upon affect, is affecting the effect that affects the effect that affects the effect and it gets very complex. So yeah, I don't entirely disagree with either of your thoughts. But to say that existence is "the becoming" doesn't really tell us anything other than whatever it is, it seems to grow (which isn't really entirely true) and that it gets more complex as it grows is partially true too, but isn't exactly true either.

For how long has affectance been around?

That is the follow up question. And that also answers the question of whether it is growing and growing more complex.
Dubious
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Re: What does it mean "to Exist"?

Post by Dubious »

That which creates in the cradle of emptiness (soil) and keeps on growing and compounding from there. The effects subsequent to a cause. Move the Cause backward and every Effect becomes a Cause of its own moving forward sprouting further existences from rocks to super brains.

Or one can think of Existence as "the collusion of events in proximity" being a measure of Co-Incidence...(intentionally hyphenated), in a ceaseless state of multiplying, ordering and reordering.

...but when referring to the exact title of the OP, Existence derives its full meaning from what it was born in and forever equal to: NOTHING.

As Goethe put it, since you once offered a fellow poster an explanation in German:

Epirrhema

Müsset im Naturbetrachten
Immer eins wie alles achten.
Nichts ist drinnen, nichts ist draußen;
Denn was innen, das ist außen.
So ergreifet ohne Säumnis
Heilig öffentlich Geheimnis!

Freuet euch des wahren Scheins,
Euch des ernsten Spieles!
Kein Lebend'ges ist ein Eins,
Immer ist's ein Vieles.
Obvious Leo
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Re: What does it mean "to Exist"?

Post by Obvious Leo »

JSS wrote: The question was what is "it"?
The universe is a journey of information within time.
Dalek Prime
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Re: What does it mean "to Exist"?

Post by Dalek Prime »

Consciousness is good enough for a person to know that you exist, particularly high level consciousness aka self-awareness. And anything that can be perceived by the consciousness that is maintained (persists) through lapses In consciouness can also be said to exist. What does it mean though? Meaning only exists within the conscious framework, and only the consciousness can decide that for itself. A rock doesn't give a crap, nor a star.
JSS
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Re: What does it mean "to Exist"?

Post by JSS »

Obvious Leo wrote:
JSS wrote: The question was what is "it"?
The universe is a journey of information within time.
But then, "What is information?"

The term "information" tells of its own meaning: "in-form-ation" - that which is cast into a form. But "form" refers merely to the shape (and typically merely a mental shape). What is it that is being cast into a form? What is the clay of the statuettes called "information"?

Affectance is that clay, whether merely mental or actually physical.
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Re: What does it mean "to Exist"?

Post by Obvious Leo »

JSS wrote:What is the clay of the statuettes called "information"?
I've already answered this question several times in a different context. Information is physical and at the fundamental scale it is quantised in the form of packets of energy. Thus one could say that an observation of reality is a snapshot of the energy density map of the cosmos smeared over a finite number of passed time intervals, but only the informational packets themselves can be said to "have existed" in an ontological sense. The statuettes are merely phenomena and thus merely a construct of the consciousness of the observer of them.
JSS
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Re: What does it mean "to Exist"?

Post by JSS »

Obvious Leo wrote:
JSS wrote:What is the clay of the statuettes called "information"?
I've already answered this question several times in a different context. Information is physical and at the fundamental scale it is quantised in the form of packets of energy.
Emmm... no.

The universe is NOT made of bits of information (the wet dream of the Quantum Magi). And whether information is the physical or a representation of the physical is variant and arbitrary to most discussions.

Information merely refers to something as being distinguishable. Yes, a property (as in one of potentially many) of an existence is that of being distinguishable. It is not a defining property. But how is it to be distinguished (a conscious act, btw) if not by its affect? It must have distinguishable affect if it is to be distinguished.
Obvious Leo wrote:one could say that an observation of reality is a snapshot of the energy density map of the cosmos...
I could go with you that far, but not the rest.
Obvious Leo
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Re: What does it mean "to Exist"?

Post by Obvious Leo »

JSS wrote: The universe is NOT made of bits of information (the wet dream of the Quantum Magi).
This has nothing to do with the quantum theory as it is currently defined in physics because quantum physics concerns itself only with the behaviour of subatomic particles and NOT with the energy quanta which encode for them. Subatomic particles are NOT quantum entities, as was made perfectly clear by Max Planck.
JSS wrote: And whether information is the physical or a representation of the physical is variant and arbitrary to most discussions.
It shouldn't be, although I agree that it often is. A distinction needs to be maintained between information as that which is fundamental and organised information as that which is emergent and therefore merely phenomenal. This is what Wheeler was banging on about when he spoke of the "it from bit" universe of sublime austerity and it is also strongly reminiscent of Leibniz's monadology without the transcendent trappings.

Look up ontic structural realism for a more comprehensive overview of these ideas. It's a rather complex concept which probably goes somewhat beyond the scope of this conversation but is nevertheless relevant to the periphery of it.
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Re: What does it mean "to Exist"?

Post by attofishpi »

JSS wrote:What does it mean "to Exist"?
Ultimately it means what mean means.
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Re: What does it mean "to Exist"?

Post by uwot »

I may have missed it, JSS, but from what I can tell, all you are doing is lumping all the forces of nature into one epistemological field of influence. There is not doubt that matter is moved this way and that, it is certainly 'affected', but it isn't clear that you are making an ontological claim. That is your prerogative, but in view of the discovery of gravitational waves, it looks more and more as if the universe is made of something that has physical properties, that it is made of 'stuff' rather than just influences, or affectance, if you wish. It exists ontologically and not just epistemologically as you, and in fact Leo, albeit according to a different model, appear to imply.
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