My Perceptions

Can philosophers help resolve the real problems that people have in their lives?

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TSBU
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Re: My Perceptions

Post by TSBU » Mon Dec 26, 2016 9:34 pm

Osric wrote:Conflict, from my observations is one way in which people come to a solution to a problem.
Oh, you make something. Problems. Savior.
I'm sharing my thoughts and feelings not only to scan the audience to see how much interest there is, but also to vent so I myself don't explode with rage.

I want to see your rage... XD
Then again, maybe I'm just trying to cause conflict in hopes that people will take sides and then have issues with what is going on in the world instead of being so hopeless or passive about things.
So, you are lying about your passivity, or not, about your own feelings, to cause problems in order to solve problems seeing people from above... aham...
So my message is not to go out and cause violence, but to go out and talk to people.

My message is to stop talking when it's useless, but I can't follow it cause it's boring. So I just say what I think to search for people from my planet and get far from people like you.
I think the people of this world have grown complacent, broken, and almost too dependent on representation to lead their lives. I will admit, a good majority of people seem like cattle to me, and I want to get them out of that cattle mentality.

I'm confused, are you being sarcastic? You are saying exactly the oposite of what you think and feel to stop feeling rage and spreading a message of conflict in a world that is very brutal, so you want people to talk with lies, like you, in order to know each other better... ._.
I'm sure people already know about the majority of what goes on in the world, but it seems to me that people just don't care or are in denial.

Really? how did you came to that brilliant conclusion?
Everything is interconnected, and very fragile, especially with nuclear weapons.
Nukes, nukes :lol: ... there is dust on them! someone must throw them!

no more reading...

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Lacewing
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Re: My Perceptions

Post by Lacewing » Mon Dec 26, 2016 9:35 pm

TSBU to Osric wrote:You smell like shit.
I think you're smelling yourself because you're FULL of it.

You don't know anything TSBU. You're just another person flapping their lips... and you don't even do it well. You give aliens a bad name. Surely they would not be so stupid.

Hey HAPPY NEW YEAR everyone!

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TSBU
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Re: My Perceptions

Post by TSBU » Mon Dec 26, 2016 10:24 pm

Lacewing wrote:
TSBU to Osric wrote:You smell like shit.
I think you're smelling yourself because you're FULL of it.

You don't know anything TSBU. You're just another person flapping their lips... and you don't even do it well. You give aliens a bad name. Surely they would not be so stupid.

Hey HAPPY NEW YEAR everyone!
Yeah, yeah, good post flowapowa, very productive, like always. The only reason to become a vexetarian would be to eat people like you.How can you be so stupid to tell other peopele always "it's your opinion" and don't see that we don't give a shit about yours? You are just doing the same I do, but with hiposcrisy. "You know nothing", oh, thanks god you know it, miss "nothing is for sure, unless I say it".

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Lacewing
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Re: My Perceptions

Post by Lacewing » Mon Dec 26, 2016 10:34 pm

TSBU wrote:miss "nothing is for sure, unless I say it".
See, you're apparently incapable of grasping that there are people who don't think like that... which is why you apparently don't notice how absurd you are that you do. 8)

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TSBU
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Re: My Perceptions

Post by TSBU » Mon Dec 26, 2016 10:42 pm

Lacewing wrote:
TSBU wrote:miss "nothing is for sure, unless I say it".
See, you're apparently incapable of grasping that there are people who don't think like that... which is why you apparently don't notice how absurd you are that you do. 8)
Aparently to you flowapowa. I'm sure that there are people who don't think like me, in fact, a very few people think like me, and I don't give a shit. And I know that what I do is absurd to you, and I don't give a shit... can that be in your head?

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Lacewing
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Re: My Perceptions

Post by Lacewing » Mon Dec 26, 2016 11:06 pm

TSBU wrote:
Lacewing wrote:
TSBU wrote:miss "nothing is for sure, unless I say it".
See, you're apparently incapable of grasping that there are people who don't think like that... which is why you apparently don't notice how absurd you are that you do. 8)
Aparently to you flowapowa. I'm sure that there are people who don't think like me, in fact, a very few people think like me, and I don't give a shit. And I know that what I do is absurd to you, and I don't give a shit... can that be in your head?
Why would that matter? You seem to like to blow hot air in people's faces, so I'm clarifying that you're more full of shit than knowing shit, and it doesn't matter if you don't give a shit.

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TSBU
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Re: My Perceptions

Post by TSBU » Mon Dec 26, 2016 11:25 pm

It seems it can't be in your head, what a shame.

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Greta
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Re: My Perceptions

Post by Greta » Tue Dec 27, 2016 5:35 am

TSBU wrote:
Greta wrote:
Osric wrote:Life is evil, mainly because the very basis of it requires us to kill and/or destroy other life to sustain our own. One is all, and all is one however. We are all made up of the universe around us, and if we are all one in the grand scheme of things then what does it matter that our material bodies change form or fuel the form of another being? People hold this illusion that life is grand and holy however, which by my perception I see nothing but brutality in the very basis of it. All we have are beings of flesh trying to pass on their genes to the next generations. We are nothing more than sentient beasts in my opinion. Some beasts are just more capable of higher levels of thought and feeling than others.
All fair enough observations IMO, despite protestations from the gallery (that's what they're not paid for).

The idea of the universe being all one thing is interesting because it seems to me that that "one thing" has always been in the process of turning itself into many things. With the separation of galaxies with dark energy, in a sense each galaxy will increasingly become its own universe. Maybe humans will form institutions run by AI that will split off from the rest of humanity in the same way humans split off from nature? It would be hard to blame them if they did ;)
Some day we'll know what do you think alone, without talking about "biology" and all that crap, if you think something.
If you learned something about biology you might understand.

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TSBU
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Re: My Perceptions

Post by TSBU » Tue Dec 27, 2016 10:26 am

Greta wrote:
TSBU wrote:
Greta wrote: All fair enough observations IMO, despite protestations from the gallery (that's what they're not paid for).

The idea of the universe being all one thing is interesting because it seems to me that that "one thing" has always been in the process of turning itself into many things. With the separation of galaxies with dark energy, in a sense each galaxy will increasingly become its own universe. Maybe humans will form institutions run by AI that will split off from the rest of humanity in the same way humans split off from nature? It would be hard to blame them if they did ;)
Some day we'll know what do you think alone, without talking about "biology" and all that crap, if you think something.
If you learned something about biology you might understand.
Greta, I know biology. It isn't my job,but it's something that I like a lot and something I had to study at University.
Starting by evolution, evolution does not necesarily rewards what is the best for the survival of specie, and, out of rewardings, it certeanly has no explanation to all the individuals of a specie.
For example, take lions. Their males, when they get to be the king, like many other mamals, usually kill the actual babies to make new babies, their babies. That's bad for the specie in a long term, and probably for them as individuals too, since they are going to be less when they hunt for a while. It doesn't give better gens for survival to the new generation either, since the last king probably lost because its age and was as strong and fast as the actual one when he was young (lions live around 7 years). It just spread the "killing babies gen", and, of course, that gen, wich is bad for the specie (specially knowing how bad is lions sperm because of their semi endogamic relationships, specially knowing that there are not som many lions), is going to be there for a while, cause those who don't have it will spread their gens less than tose who have it.

Evolution works with mistakes, and some mistakes get here for a while. That's all.

Biology just says that there are some things,like parasytes, that tend to appear, that there are some things, like the form of the fishes, that is going to be there. But biology works more with statistics and pure study, than with theorys (real biology), I mean, the Golgi... how do you call it in English? XD. Well, what I mean, is that biology is not "explanations", it is "facts". It is a real science, not like sociology", first, the facts, the statistics, then, you can give all the theorys and models you want, but the facts are there.

If you talk about biology trying to explain humans behavour, it's like trying to explain human behaviour talking about phisics.Of course, we are ruled by phisics laws, but, hell, that's not enough, and that's far enough of the point to talk about a new subject.

What about enjoying music? When you enjoy a song, are you thinking in why biology and being a human makes you enjoy that song, or are you just enjoying the song and thinking in your own taste? What about gays? What about vegetarians... in the end, everything? Of course, we are mammals (oh, eiffel XD), but we are not equal, we are individuals, and philosophy is not just saying "biology", (and less "sociology") that's the kind of philosophy done by countries specially when they talk about races, talk with a racist and he will talk about biology, but we both know that he doesn't think what he thinks because of biology. Talk with a horny man and (if he is stupid) he will talk about biology... no, man, you are just horny. Brutality? That's a human term, just human, out of biology. And plants taking sun are not brutal by the way. Biology would be a good explanation if you could look at biology and only with that knowing how humans will move, but it's all the oposite, humans do things, and then someone finds a relation with something similar in biology, a curiosity that is never a rule. Are we what we are because of evolution? Yes, of course. Hell but you don't have to say that in every post.

Nanananana, I don't care about that, if someone is talking about causality, for example, I want to know why does he tink what he thinks, I don't want him to say "i think that because of biology", that's not more usefull than saying "I know it because I'm alive, if I were dead I wouldn't know it" or "i feel that way because of phisics laws".

You get it?

"How can you solve that equation?" no need to talk about biology.

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Greta
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Re: My Perceptions

Post by Greta » Wed Dec 28, 2016 1:25 am

TSBU wrote:
Greta wrote:
TSBU wrote:
Some day we'll know what do you think alone, without talking about "biology" and all that crap, if you think something.
If you learned something about biology you might understand.
Greta, I know biology. It isn't my job,but it's something that I like a lot and something I had to study at University.
Starting by evolution, evolution does not necesarily rewards what is the best for the survival of specie, and, out of rewardings, it certeanly has no explanation to all the individuals of a specie.
For example, take lions. Their males, when they get to be the king, like many other mamals, usually kill the actual babies to make new babies, their babies. That's bad for the specie in a long term, and probably for them as individuals too, since they are going to be less when they hunt for a while. It doesn't give better gens for survival to the new generation either, since the last king probably lost because its age and was as strong and fast as the actual one when he was young (lions live around 7 years). It just spread the "killing babies gen", and, of course, that gen, wich is bad for the specie (specially knowing how bad is lions sperm because of their semi endogamic relationships, specially knowing that there are not som many lions), is going to be there for a while, cause those who don't have it will spread their gens less than tose who have it.

Evolution works with mistakes, and some mistakes get here for a while. That's all.

Biology just says that there are some things,like parasytes, that tend to appear, that there are some things, like the form of the fishes, that is going to be there. But biology works more with statistics and pure study, than with theorys (real biology), I mean, the Golgi... how do you call it in English? XD. Well, what I mean, is that biology is not "explanations", it is "facts". It is a real science, not like sociology", first, the facts, the statistics, then, you can give all the theorys and models you want, but the facts are there.

If you talk about biology trying to explain humans behavour, it's like trying to explain human behaviour talking about phisics.Of course, we are ruled by phisics laws, but, hell, that's not enough, and that's far enough of the point to talk about a new subject.

What about enjoying music? When you enjoy a song, are you thinking in why biology and being a human makes you enjoy that song, or are you just enjoying the song and thinking in your own taste? What about gays? What about vegetarians... in the end, everything? Of course, we are mammals (oh, eiffel XD), but we are not equal, we are individuals, and philosophy is not just saying "biology", (and less "sociology") that's the kind of philosophy done by countries specially when they talk about races, talk with a racist and he will talk about biology, but we both know that he doesn't think what he thinks because of biology. Talk with a horny man and (if he is stupid) he will talk about biology... no, man, you are just horny. Brutality? That's a human term, just human, out of biology. And plants taking sun are not brutal by the way. Biology would be a good explanation if you could look at biology and only with that knowing how humans will move, but it's all the oposite, humans do things, and then someone finds a relation with something similar in biology, a curiosity that is never a rule. Are we what we are because of evolution? Yes, of course. Hell but you don't have to say that in every post.

Nanananana, I don't care about that, if someone is talking about causality, for example, I want to know why does he tink what he thinks, I don't want him to say "i think that because of biology", that's not more usefull than saying "I know it because I'm alive, if I were dead I wouldn't know it" or "i feel that way because of phisics laws".

You get it?

"How can you solve that equation?" no need to talk about biology.
My response was okay; we don't all have to take the same angles. The thread would be incomplete without a biological perspective considering that Osric was speaking of life being evil due to all the killing and eating involved.

If other thread contributors considered the biological angle then I might have found another "gap to fill".

Dalek Prime
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Re: My Perceptions

Post by Dalek Prime » Wed Dec 28, 2016 4:46 am

Greta wrote:
TSBU wrote:
Greta wrote: If you learned something about biology you might understand.
Greta, I know biology. It isn't my job,but it's something that I like a lot and something I had to study at University.
Starting by evolution, evolution does not necesarily rewards what is the best for the survival of specie, and, out of rewardings, it certeanly has no explanation to all the individuals of a specie.
For example, take lions. Their males, when they get to be the king, like many other mamals, usually kill the actual babies to make new babies, their babies. That's bad for the specie in a long term, and probably for them as individuals too, since they are going to be less when they hunt for a while. It doesn't give better gens for survival to the new generation either, since the last king probably lost because its age and was as strong and fast as the actual one when he was young (lions live around 7 years). It just spread the "killing babies gen", and, of course, that gen, wich is bad for the specie (specially knowing how bad is lions sperm because of their semi endogamic relationships, specially knowing that there are not som many lions), is going to be there for a while, cause those who don't have it will spread their gens less than tose who have it.

Evolution works with mistakes, and some mistakes get here for a while. That's all.

Biology just says that there are some things,like parasytes, that tend to appear, that there are some things, like the form of the fishes, that is going to be there. But biology works more with statistics and pure study, than with theorys (real biology), I mean, the Golgi... how do you call it in English? XD. Well, what I mean, is that biology is not "explanations", it is "facts". It is a real science, not like sociology", first, the facts, the statistics, then, you can give all the theorys and models you want, but the facts are there.

If you talk about biology trying to explain humans behavour, it's like trying to explain human behaviour talking about phisics.Of course, we are ruled by phisics laws, but, hell, that's not enough, and that's far enough of the point to talk about a new subject.

What about enjoying music? When you enjoy a song, are you thinking in why biology and being a human makes you enjoy that song, or are you just enjoying the song and thinking in your own taste? What about gays? What about vegetarians... in the end, everything? Of course, we are mammals (oh, eiffel XD), but we are not equal, we are individuals, and philosophy is not just saying "biology", (and less "sociology") that's the kind of philosophy done by countries specially when they talk about races, talk with a racist and he will talk about biology, but we both know that he doesn't think what he thinks because of biology. Talk with a horny man and (if he is stupid) he will talk about biology... no, man, you are just horny. Brutality? That's a human term, just human, out of biology. And plants taking sun are not brutal by the way. Biology would be a good explanation if you could look at biology and only with that knowing how humans will move, but it's all the oposite, humans do things, and then someone finds a relation with something similar in biology, a curiosity that is never a rule. Are we what we are because of evolution? Yes, of course. Hell but you don't have to say that in every post.

Nanananana, I don't care about that, if someone is talking about causality, for example, I want to know why does he tink what he thinks, I don't want him to say "i think that because of biology", that's not more usefull than saying "I know it because I'm alive, if I were dead I wouldn't know it" or "i feel that way because of phisics laws".

You get it?

"How can you solve that equation?" no need to talk about biology.
My response was okay; we don't all have to take the same angles. The thread would be incomplete without a biological perspective considering that Osric was speaking of life being evil due to all the killing and eating involved.

If other thread contributors considered the biological angle then I might have found another "gap to fill".
I think Osric is right on that. Just because something is the way it is, doesn't mean that it's good. It just means the life system is skewed to what we happen to term evil, and we ignore or accept that evil system as a 'good' thing, because there is no alternative to it. It's only when it happens to something or someone we care for, is the illusion we've cultivated as 'good', shattered, becoming something evil or horrific. Eg. The neighbours dog killed and ate your sweet pooch, or a lion ate your baby, or a man ate another man. Then suddenly, the system sucks, and we mentally revolt.

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Re: My Perceptions

Post by TSBU » Wed Dec 28, 2016 1:13 pm

Good has two meanings, the oposite of evil, and the same as "right", but evil is not the same as "wrong".
But even if it were, only humans (thinking things) can be wrong or evil.
And even if you call evil to everything you don't like (very common), you can't say that all nature is "evil".
If you always see eating as "evil", for example, a baby eating his mother milk,a cow eating grass on the grown, plants eating air and sun, etc, maybe you should check your psichology.
If wolfs eat your cows, hunt them :D

Only humans are evil. But... well, problems don't came from "evil psichology", a destroyed soul after a life of suffering, with sadistic and psichopatic feelings, isn't necesaroly a bad person, it may use a boxing bag, porn, whatever, or it may cause harm to humans, but that's not very common. Most of problems come from "stupid mind", that is, people hurting each other and themselves in the name of a wrong idea: vegetarians in rage when you eat a hamburger, sheep-humans giving money to drug addicts, parents teaching lies to their children, people atacking what they don't understand and fear, what is different... they aren't "worse" in psichology than the common human being, and that's what create "monsters" in the end.

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Greta
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Re: My Perceptions

Post by Greta » Thu Dec 29, 2016 3:40 am

Dalek Prime wrote:
Greta wrote:The thread would be incomplete without a biological perspective considering that Osric was speaking of life being evil due to all the killing and eating involved.

If other thread contributors considered the biological angle then I might have found another "gap to fill".
I think Osric is right on that. Just because something is the way it is, doesn't mean that it's good. It just means the life system is skewed to what we happen to term evil, and we ignore or accept that evil system as a 'good' thing, because there is no alternative to it. It's only when it happens to something or someone we care for, is the illusion we've cultivated as 'good', shattered, becoming something evil or horrific. Eg. The neighbours dog killed and ate your sweet pooch, or a lion ate your baby, or a man ate another man. Then suddenly, the system sucks, and we mentally revolt.
I've never been a fan of the brutality of nature*. We do tend to accept "evil", ie. entropy because there's no choice, not if we hope to enjoy life. George Carlin's "I just watch the show" approach was an inspiration for me.

Everything in nature must be destroyed to make way for the next things, which in turn will be destroyed, re-used and replaced. I think The System sucks too but my emotional response doesn't matter. It's fascinating in a David Attenborough-ish way to see how nature is restructuring itself, suggesting how humans will essentially supersede themselves via institutional aggregations.


* when I say "nature" on the forum, assume that it includes both the cosmos and humans.

Dalek Prime
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Re: My Perceptions

Post by Dalek Prime » Thu Dec 29, 2016 2:04 pm

Greta wrote:
Dalek Prime wrote:
Greta wrote:The thread would be incomplete without a biological perspective considering that Osric was speaking of life being evil due to all the killing and eating involved.

If other thread contributors considered the biological angle then I might have found another "gap to fill".
I think Osric is right on that. Just because something is the way it is, doesn't mean that it's good. It just means the life system is skewed to what we happen to term evil, and we ignore or accept that evil system as a 'good' thing, because there is no alternative to it. It's only when it happens to something or someone we care for, is the illusion we've cultivated as 'good', shattered, becoming something evil or horrific. Eg. The neighbours dog killed and ate your sweet pooch, or a lion ate your baby, or a man ate another man. Then suddenly, the system sucks, and we mentally revolt.
I've never been a fan of the brutality of nature*. We do tend to accept "evil", ie. entropy because there's no choice, not if we hope to enjoy life. George Carlin's "I just watch the show" approach was an inspiration for me.

Everything in nature must be destroyed to make way for the next things, which in turn will be destroyed, re-used and replaced. I think The System sucks too but my emotional response doesn't matter. It's fascinating in a David Attenborough-ish way to see how nature is restructuring itself, suggesting how humans will essentially supersede themselves via institutional aggregations.


* when I say "nature" on the forum, assume that it includes both the cosmos and humans.
Very valid observation. Funny how I never saw killing or eating as entropy before, though it clearly is. Ta Greta (and thanks for some earlier posts... you know...)
Last edited by Dalek Prime on Fri Dec 30, 2016 12:04 am, edited 1 time in total.

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TSBU
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Re: My Perceptions

Post by TSBU » Thu Dec 29, 2016 3:55 pm

I want to laugh, can you tell me your entropy definition? Including, of course, your "order" definition.
Chaos is that wich can't be predicted and controlled. Now we know that everything you can't controll or predict is evil.

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