In Times of Trouble - what do you do?

Can philosophers help resolve the real problems that people have in their lives?

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Walker
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Re: In Times of Trouble - what do you do?

Postby Walker » Sun Feb 05, 2017 5:53 am

In Times of Trouble - what do you do?

How to break the funk?
You make someone happy.

Make Someone Happy Lyrics - Jimmy Durante
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fznw-AGoENo

As the lyrics say, love is the reason to cling.

It’s the clinging that causes joy and suffering, and that’s the way it is for everyone.

As Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj says, love is the meaning and purpose of duality.
That and implications say everything about relationship.

Jiddu Krishnamurti says that we exist in relationship.
The implication is: no relationship, no duality, no karma, no good times, no bad times, no existence.
A relationship can be with a person, a place, a thing, or an idea.

Uh oh. Just read this thread that asks for advice.

This could easily fall under the suspicion of condescending advice vigilantes.

:(

marjoram_blues
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Re: In Times of Trouble - what do you do?

Postby marjoram_blues » Sun Feb 05, 2017 10:22 am

Walker wrote:In Times of Trouble - what do you do?

How to break the funk?
You make someone happy.

Make Someone Happy Lyrics - Jimmy Durante
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fznw-AGoENo

As the lyrics say, love is the reason to cling.

It’s the clinging that causes joy and suffering, and that’s the way it is for everyone.

As Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj says, love is the meaning and purpose of duality.
That and implications say everything about relationship.

Jiddu Krishnamurti says that we exist in relationship.
The implication is: no relationship, no duality, no karma, no good times, no bad times, no existence.
A relationship can be with a person, a place, a thing, or an idea.

Uh oh. Just read this thread that asks for advice.

This could easily fall under the suspicion of condescending advice vigilantes.

:(


I am sure that all sharing of advice has value :)
Sometimes it is not so much what is said but the way...

There is always a risk that some posters, including myself, take issue with the tone of another. Especially if it smells of a previously odious exchange of views or attitude. Or subtle put-downs.
Either way, it is always a pain/pleasure to read the reactions and point of withdrawal from engagement.

And yes, music is a powerful tool. But some songs and lyrics just don't cut it.
I think 'The tears of a clown' quite good.
Thanks for your contribution.

Walker
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Re: In Times of Trouble - what do you do?

Postby Walker » Sun Feb 05, 2017 3:04 pm

Well, you’re most welcome.

And thank you for your tolerance.

We persevere for sympatico with the multiple and arbitrary acceptable standards of depth and insight.

*

Re: music:

Durante was loved in his day and after his day but not because of his pipes.

Anyone could sing better than Durante.

However, more than most he could touch hearts as a communicator.

Of course, folks had to power up the receivers and Victrolas to hear him.

marjoram_blues
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Re: In Times of Trouble - what do you do?

Postby marjoram_blues » Mon Feb 06, 2017 9:52 am

Walker wrote:Well, you’re most welcome.

And thank you for your tolerance.

We persevere for sympatico with the multiple and arbitrary acceptable standards of depth and insight.

*

Re: music:

Durante was loved in his day and after his day but not because of his pipes.

Anyone could sing better than Durante.

However, more than most he could touch hearts as a communicator.

Of course, folks had to power up the receivers and Victrolas to hear him.


Walker, what stayed in my mind after listening to that song was actually something I have always done for as long as I can remember.
And that is... 'One Smile to Cheer You'

The main thing in my life has been about putting others first. Making people welcome, lessen their anxieties - initially with a smile - even when anxious myself!
However - my recent bereavement has floored me. And, amidst so much else, I have had to sort self out. It's overwhelming at times. Any smile has not reached my dead blue eyes; it hasn't come from my heart or soul.

One of the last things my Mum told me was ' Be good to yourself'.
I'm crying writing this.

So, now I am reminded to Smile for Someone Else. And to live life in a positive way that would bring a smile to Mum's face.
And that :) would cheer, as in comfort, me too. Well, that's the theory...
Thanks.

Walker
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Re: In Times of Trouble - what do you do?

Postby Walker » Tue Feb 07, 2017 10:58 am

I’m pretty sure I know how you feel, but you have the advantage of being a good person.

Just imagine the spiritual depth of challenge to balance, for one who has a different self-realization.

Placement of attention is the key element, and habit determines where attention is placed. Most recoveries simply require adherence to form. To routine, structure, and habit. Attention placed on form rather than meaning allows time to naturally heal the routine of habit, with a new habit.

Habit is a process: Cue, routine, reward. Cues can remain the same but when routines are disrupted by circumstances beyond control, the rewards are gone. The routine will be repaired in time even when there is no initiative to do so. Consciousness of the habit process as it unfolds allows for patience.

Time does a wonderful job of ironing out the details of how this naturally happens.
The tragedy is often to not give time its due.
The only action required in the psychic trauma of bereavement is to maintain daily form until time creates the natural urge to make someone happy. When this happens, this is the uncalculated, natural, biological, and non-intellectual realization from which philosophical principles are formed.

marjoram_blues
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Re: In Times of Trouble - what do you do?

Postby marjoram_blues » Wed Feb 08, 2017 12:03 pm

Walker wrote:I’m pretty sure I know how you feel, but you have the advantage of being a good person.

Just imagine the spiritual depth of challenge to balance, for one who has a different self-realization.

Placement of attention is the key element, and habit determines where attention is placed. Most recoveries simply require adherence to form. To routine, structure, and habit. Attention placed on form rather than meaning allows time to naturally heal the routine of habit, with a new habit.

Habit is a process: Cue, routine, reward. Cues can remain the same but when routines are disrupted by circumstances beyond control, the rewards are gone. The routine will be repaired in time even when there is no initiative to do so. Consciousness of the habit process as it unfolds allows for patience.

Time does a wonderful job of ironing out the details of how this naturally happens.
The tragedy is often to not give time its due.
The only action required in the psychic trauma of bereavement is to maintain daily form until time creates the natural urge to make someone happy. When this happens, this is the uncalculated, natural, biological, and non-intellectual realization from which philosophical principles are formed.


OK, I've read this through a few times, and here are some thoughts.
I am not sure that there is an advantage or disadvantage in being either a 'good', 'bad or 'indifferent' person when it comes to dealing with loss, in any of its forms or force. An individual is neither all good, or bad - and can have different self-realizations at any particular time. Some of those might be accurate and correspond to reality, other times not so much. Balance of life and emotions in complex situations is challenging no matter any degree of 'spiritual depth', whatever that is.

I agree about the importance of time in any healing process; but disagree that it is sufficient or that the only action is to 'maintain daily form or routine'.
Indeed, I am not sure that it is disruption in the routine of habit that is the problem.

Mostly, life goes on. And when bereaved people are asked how they are, often the reply is 'I'm getting there...'
and that is enough for superficial social interaction, even if there is more going on, and people know it.

The different ways of returning to some sense of balance are as different as personal circumstance and context.
Some might stick to daily routine, as necessary, to deal with others' needs as well as their own.
Some might have other bereavements heaped on top of one another - no time to recover.
Some look to others for help and support; and this can be a calculated realisation - therefore not 'uncalculated' or 'non-intellectual'.
Others just might have endured a lengthy period of caring - and head for the hills, or a cruise, or other kinds of escapism.

I would say that there is no single answer but we have more knowledge, experience and support systems from which to choose any way forward.
Anyway, I am no expert in this field...simply sharing some ideas.
Thanks for yours.

duszek
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Re: In Times of Trouble - what do you do?

Postby duszek » Wed Feb 08, 2017 1:51 pm

What works with me is for example listen to the video on youtube of the last song in "Much Ado about Nothing", the title is "Strike up the Pipes".

And then sing it in a soprano voice yourself (not too loud because of the neighbours).

What I did this morning is to sing in a soprano voice (soprano is up-lifting and waking up) a folkloristic Polish tune (don´t fall rain, don´t fall) as it it were an aria from an opera.

Oh my darling, Clementine, would work too.

Singing has helped people for millenia.

marjoram_blues
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Re: In Times of Trouble - what do you do?

Postby marjoram_blues » Wed Feb 08, 2017 2:26 pm

duszek wrote:What works with me is for example listen to the video on youtube of the last song in "Much Ado about Nothing", the title is "Strike up the Pipes".

And then sing it in a soprano voice yourself (not too loud because of the neighbours).

What I did this morning is to sing in a soprano voice (soprano is up-lifting and waking up) a folkloristic Polish tune (don´t fall rain, don´t fall) as it it were an aria from an opera.

Oh my darling, Clementine, would work too.

Singing has helped people for millenia.



:D Yay, strike up the pipes...or pipers even !
Watched the YouTube vid...made me want to go to Italy again. Such a beautiful setting - looks like Tuscany - I wonder where exactly...

My tonsils wouldn't cope with soprano - last time I sang was in church, ' How Great Thou Art' and even though I am an ex-believer...I sang it loud and clear for Mum. And it felt good.

marjoram_blues
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Re: In Times of Trouble - what do you do?

Postby marjoram_blues » Thu Feb 09, 2017 3:05 am

Poetry puzzles.

'One Art' - Elizabeth Bishop

'The art of losing isn't hard to master;
...

RickLewis
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Re: In Times of Trouble - what do you do?

Postby RickLewis » Tue Feb 14, 2017 6:53 pm

marjoram_blues wrote:Do you seek comfort in 'Philosophical Counselling' ?
Do you say Stuff the World and Everyone In it ?
Do you read the news and wonder about Alternative Facts ?
Do you need a new dictionary to translate what is a traitor?
Do you stop asking questions...
...and simply accept...
All Things Must Pass


I once had a greetings card with a picture of a sad-looking rabbit on the front. The text on the front said:

When you're all alone and the going is tough

And you fear that your best is not good enough

When you feel like a rabbit and life is a hound...


And inside the card it has a picture of the rabbit pulling a funny face and blowing a raspberry, and the text reads:

... THEN STICK OUT YOUR TONGUE AND MAKE A REAL FUNNY SOUND!

PPPPPPPHHHHHPPHHHHTTTTTTTTTTTTTPPPPP!!!!!!



(Ah well, it made me laugh anyway, and I try to apply this approach to real life.)

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henry quirk
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Postby henry quirk » Tue Feb 14, 2017 7:08 pm

“I have heard there are troubles of more than one kind. Some come from ahead and some come from behind. But I've bought a big bat. I'm all ready you see. Now my troubles are going to have troubles with me!” ― Dr. Seuss

marjoram_blues
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Re: In Times of Trouble - what do you do?

Postby marjoram_blues » Tue Feb 14, 2017 8:25 pm

RickLewis wrote:
marjoram_blues wrote:Do you seek comfort in 'Philosophical Counselling' ?
Do you say Stuff the World and Everyone In it ?
Do you read the news and wonder about Alternative Facts ?
Do you need a new dictionary to translate what is a traitor?
Do you stop asking questions...
...and simply accept...
All Things Must Pass


I once had a greetings card with a picture of a sad-looking rabbit on the front. The text on the front said:

When you're all alone and the going is tough

And you fear that your best is not good enough

When you feel like a rabbit and life is a hound...


And inside the card it has a picture of the rabbit pulling a funny face and blowing a raspberry, and the text reads:

... THEN STICK OUT YOUR TONGUE AND MAKE A REAL FUNNY SOUND!

PPPPPPPHHHHHPPHHHHTTTTTTTTTTTTTPPPPP!!!!!!



(Ah well, it made me laugh anyway, and I try to apply this approach to real life.)


You blow raspberries ! :P
In public ? 8)
In London ? :shock:

marjoram_blues
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Re:

Postby marjoram_blues » Tue Feb 14, 2017 8:27 pm

henry quirk wrote:“I have heard there are troubles of more than one kind. Some come from ahead and some come from behind. But I've bought a big bat. I'm all ready you see. Now my troubles are going to have troubles with me!” ― Dr. Seuss


Oh, I like that one - ta, dear hennery :)

Ooh, I misread it; thought it said 'big hat' ...

Walker
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Re: In Times of Trouble - what do you do?

Postby Walker » Sat Feb 18, 2017 7:27 am

This might do the trick.
The video, not doing what's in the video.
Although that might work, for someone.

Dreamlines 4 Wingsuit Proximity
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8W36TWiSKaI

marjoram_blues
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Re: In Times of Trouble - what do you do?

Postby marjoram_blues » Sat Feb 18, 2017 7:46 am

American billionaires build bunkers in New Zealand.
Apocalypse insurance.

>>>>

Trouble for locals when prime land being gobbled up.
Exceptional natural landscape > gaudy oversized mansions lying empty for most of the year.

>>>>

Money wins.
Fear is the Deil. ( Deal/ 'Deil' is Scottish word for Devil )


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