Don't Vote

How should society be organised, if at all?

Moderators: AMod, iMod

Post Reply
Pluto
Posts: 1856
Joined: Thu May 15, 2008 9:26 pm
Location: Belgium

Don't Vote

Post by Pluto »

Everybody stops voting. It's the moral thing to do. The system is a joke/circus.
Impenitent
Posts: 4329
Joined: Wed Feb 10, 2010 2:04 pm

Re: Don't Vote

Post by Impenitent »

how democratic...

-Imp
User avatar
SpheresOfBalance
Posts: 5688
Joined: Sat Sep 10, 2011 4:27 pm
Location: On a Star Dust Metamorphosis

Re: Don't Vote

Post by SpheresOfBalance »

Come on now, you and I both know voting has absolutely nothing to do with picking the right person for the job, and everything to do with picking the one who shall probably screw it up the least. And if it's all rigged, then it doesn't matter either way, but it's better to hedge your bet by voting for the lesser screw up, in case the greater screw up wins, because then you can use the fact as a disclaimer. ;-)
Wootah
Posts: 223
Joined: Tue Apr 07, 2009 6:43 am

Re: Don't Vote

Post by Wootah »

What makes voting moral or not?
Pluto
Posts: 1856
Joined: Thu May 15, 2008 9:26 pm
Location: Belgium

Re: Don't Vote

Post by Pluto »

To vote today - for what's put forth - is an immoral and denigrating act.
Pluto
Posts: 1856
Joined: Thu May 15, 2008 9:26 pm
Location: Belgium

Re: Don't Vote

Post by Pluto »

Wootah wrote:What makes voting moral or not?
That what your voting for.
User avatar
Arising_uk
Posts: 12314
Joined: Wed Oct 17, 2007 2:31 am

Re: Don't Vote

Post by Arising_uk »

Then stand for election yourself.
bobevenson
Posts: 7349
Joined: Tue Mar 03, 2009 12:02 am
Contact:

Re: Don't Vote

Post by bobevenson »

There is nothing wrong with voting. Many people feel it's the right thing to do, because it has symbolic importance to them, like going to church. But when these same people try to lay a guilt trip on other people who don't vote and don't think it's important to vote, it is quite a different matter, knowing they don't have the slightest fucking idea of what they're talking about. They say, "If you don't vote, you can't complain," or "What if everybody felt that way?" or "A single vote can determine the results of an election," and other such nonsense. They should just waste their time and money going to polling booths to soothe their own superegos, and let it go at that, without making themselves look like fools trying to rationalize their stupidity.
ala1993
Posts: 94
Joined: Sat Jul 19, 2008 6:20 pm

Re: Don't Vote

Post by ala1993 »

One of the arguments in support of voting is that democracy is not a scaffold in which we live our lives but rather the combined effort of those who participate; as such, we vote in order to allow ourselves to continue to make the choice as to whether or not to do so in the future. Another argument is that if more people vote then elected officials (and those who have expressed their wish to be elected/re-elected) find themselves under greater public scrutiny and are less able to act 'under the radar' (i.e. in a manner that we might call 'corrupt').

What we should be asking is not whether or not we should vote, but rather whether voting in and of itself is enough. Can a democracy operate if everyone merely voted and never participated in any other way? In fact, we do participate - through our lifestyles, our jobs, our illegal behaviour - but this is implicit and inescapable. If we do not take a more active stance then we allow elected officials more leeway to manage society without our explicit consent (and we end up resorting to protests and demonstrations in order to express ourselves; an indication that at some point in the recent past the national citizenship was not as politically active as it should be).

Voter turnout is a fantastic expression of political interest; if we choose not to vote then we should at least indicate this in an official manner rather than simply abstaining and leaving it at that. We wouldn't need to do anything more than put an 'x' in a box marked (something like) "no preference" or "none of the above" (or even "not voting"). To not only refrain from voting but fail to make this explicit is tantamout to an undermining of democracy (and not simply of our particular democratic structure). However, to merely vote and not take any other political action is also undermining act.
chaz wyman
Posts: 5304
Joined: Fri Mar 12, 2010 7:31 pm

Re: Don't Vote

Post by chaz wyman »

Pluto wrote:Everybody stops voting. It's the moral thing to do. The system is a joke/circus.
Game theory laughs at your presumption.

If every one agreed to not vote, there would be one or more persons that would actually vote and get the candidate of their choice.

What you need to do is run for office on the "None of the Above" ticket.
chaz wyman
Posts: 5304
Joined: Fri Mar 12, 2010 7:31 pm

Re: Don't Vote

Post by chaz wyman »

Pluto wrote:To vote today - for what's put forth - is an immoral and denigrating act.

Given the pathetic choices.
tbieter
Posts: 1206
Joined: Wed Oct 17, 2007 6:45 pm
Location: St. Paul, Minnesota, USA

Re: Don't Vote

Post by tbieter »

ala1993 wrote:One of the arguments in support of voting is that democracy is not a scaffold in which we live our lives but rather the combined effort of those who participate; as such, we vote in order to allow ourselves to continue to make the choice as to whether or not to do so in the future. Another argument is that if more people vote then elected officials (and those who have expressed their wish to be elected/re-elected) find themselves under greater public scrutiny and are less able to act 'under the radar' (i.e. in a manner that we might call 'corrupt').

What we should be asking is not whether or not we should vote, but rather whether voting in and of itself is enough. Can a democracy operate if everyone merely voted and never participated in any other way? In fact, we do participate - through our lifestyles, our jobs, our illegal behaviour - but this is implicit and inescapable. If we do not take a more active stance then we allow elected officials more leeway to manage society without our explicit consent (and we end up resorting to protests and demonstrations in order to express ourselves; an indication that at some point in the recent past the national citizenship was not as politically active as it should be).

Voter turnout is a fantastic expression of political interest; if we choose not to vote then we should at least indicate this in an official manner rather than simply abstaining and leaving it at that. We wouldn't need to do anything more than put an 'x' in a box marked (something like) "no preference" or "none of the above" (or even "not voting"). To not only refrain from voting but fail to make this explicit is tantamout to an undermining of democracy (and not simply of our particular democratic structure). However, to merely vote and not take any other political action is also undermining act.
RE: "If we do not take a more active stance then we allow elected officials [ and un-elected bureaucrats] more leeway to manage society without our explicit consent (and we end up resorting to protests and demonstrations in order to express ourselves;"

A simple, but powerful, mode of political activity is the carefully drafted argumentative letter to the editor published in the local newspaper.

Twice my published letters directly yielded the action that I advocated.

One morning I read about a legislative hearing involving the Faribault School for the Deaf. http://www.msad.state.mn.us/index.aspx A "planner" in the state department of administration had recommended that the school be closed and the deaf kids be transferred ("main-streamed") into the local school system.

I exploded in rage. I knew a lot about that excellent school and about specialized education. And most important, my grandmother had lived and taught at the school. Each summer, as a young boy, I would go and stay with her for a week on the beautiful campus. I'd play with deaf kids my age.

I spent the morning drafting my letter. My secretary sent copies to the editor, to the chairman of the legislative committee, to the mother of the deaf boy featured in the newspaper article, and to all of the legislators in northeastern Minnesota (my cover letter to the legislators demanded that they oppose the proposed closure)

About a month later I received a call from the mother. She informed me that the proposal had been tabled and was dead. She said that my letter was read into the record and that a NE Minn. legislator informed the committee chairman that the entire delegation was opposed to the proposed closure. She thanked me for my action. She also said that the staff at the school remembered my beloved grandmother with fondness.

Thanks to my effort the school flourishes today and my grandmother rests in peace.
User avatar
Bill Wiltrack
Posts: 5468
Joined: Sat Nov 03, 2007 1:52 pm
Location: Cleveland, Ohio, USA
Contact:

Re: Don't Vote

Post by Bill Wiltrack »

.



...I'd play with deaf kids my age.




Props & big ups on you .



.
Pluto
Posts: 1856
Joined: Thu May 15, 2008 9:26 pm
Location: Belgium

Re: Don't Vote

Post by Pluto »

chaz wyman wrote:
Pluto wrote:To vote today - for what's put forth - is an immoral and denigrating act.

Given the pathetic choices.
Yes, that and the whole thing.

...if we choose not to vote then we should at least indicate this in an official manner rather than simply abstaining and leaving it at that.
This could be good, though you would then have to openly defend the decision and you would lose. A silent turning away from all political activities is needed. This could be coordinated quietly through, word of mouth, non-commercial channels, some other way. Presently all are locked in to the circus and this is what they want. Leaders' legitimacy needs to be removed. The people's collective strength and decency shown. We need to show the true nature of the machine, let it do its worst at home, this will have to happen before any of this will change for the better. To continue supporting and adhering to the madness by way of a vote is only prolonging it and in turn actually damages the individual within the group. Through the present political climate one is brought down to their (designed/preferred) level of awareness. As a start, people must step out of this in some way. Many already do it, but it needs to become a consciously collective enterprise for real change.
Last edited by Pluto on Mon Jan 09, 2012 9:43 pm, edited 4 times in total.
Pluto
Posts: 1856
Joined: Thu May 15, 2008 9:26 pm
Location: Belgium

Re: Don't Vote

Post by Pluto »

Impenitent wrote:how democratic...

-Imp
Isn't it.
Game theory laughs at your presumption.
Game Theory is anti-human so let it laugh.
Post Reply