Philosophy Now Forum

Don't worry, I'm not bothered about the details of when it would be applied just the principle.

So, what if your son declares that he doesn't believe in Islam any more and no longer regards himself as a Muslim. Will he have the same exemption from sharia law that non Muslim foreigners residing in the country will have?

If you answer that he doesn't and shariah law still applies then what about a friend who declared himself no longer a Muslim? What about foreigners who used to be Muslim but no longer consider themselves to be so?




Have you considered that she might love you but just not feel like it at the same time that you do? I wasn't talking about a wife who never wanted to have sex with her husband but see Kayla's question below.

Yes but your case totally differs from the case of sexual freedom in eastern societies . The nature and traditions of people are different . (with putting religion aside) , Arab race is a tough race with tough traditions that's hard to be changed , even with conditioning hollywood movies (haha just kidding ) , for example if a man married a woman and discovered after the wedding that she wasn't virgin , he would make her a scandal and divorce her . The girl's family would probably turn that girl's life into hell for the scandal and shame she brought to them .

No , I mean a man mustn't force her woman to have sex in case she doesn't want , and in case she doesn't want that has no other meaning than Love is gone . And if love is gone , respect is gone too , and any relationship not based on love and respect is meaningless and should end . But I give the right to a woman who does no longer love her man to refuse herself sexually to her husband or whatever is the reason of rejection , the relationship then has to end .

I don't know what should be done with this case , foreigners carry a different nationality so they have a special case in law , and this is how things used to work in Mubarak's rule . but let's think about a similar case , what if a homosexual guy was living in a secular society that forbids homosexuality for any kind of reasons , what he would do ? I think he should travel to another country where he can find more freedom and persons like him. I really can't find a solution for his problem , democracy means the decision or opinion of majority .

So if a women says she isn't feeling well you think she's lying because a refusal to have sex can only mean that she no longer loves her husband? Do you also believe that a woman may not feel like it just because she actually feels exhausted? do you also think that it's impossible for a woman not to want sex for emotional reasons that may be highly specific to particular circumstances?

I suspect that if you think about those reasons you don't really believe them and that there probably are circumstances in which a woman might not want to have sex with her husband that doesn't mean she no longer loves him. If that's the case then maybe you should re-examine some of your attitudes.

If a secular society bans homosexuality the ban will apply to everyone rather than just some.

But it's not a similar case anyway because what I was really asking you about was your position on apostasy and whether you would be prepared to tolerate someone abandoning Islam, particularly if that person was someone close to you.

There's nothing unique about Arab culture in this way it's just that the rest of the world began to realise a while back that there was no justification for treating women as the property of men.

And just because something is a tradition doesn't mean you have to agree with it.

All these reasons are surely acceptable , I thought you were saying if woman has a feeling of rejection or coldness toward her husband not temporary conditions . And as long as there is something called (discussion) , then all reasons can be acceptable and discussed . We are human beings not machines .

If a close person to me abandons Islam , I have nothing to do with him but advising him and discussing the reasons like Noah prophet whose son was a disbeliever , he kept advising him .

You see, I didn't say that but you assumed it's what I meant because you're making statements in terms of absolutes that you possibly don't really mean when you're asked to think about things a bit more.

But would you accept that he should no longer be subject to shariah law?

To end this debate , I suggest the parliament make official public voting on the shape of the country and law applied in it . They can suggest two shapes of constitutions , one with Islamic background and the other secular . Then everybody can practice his right in deciding the future and shape of his country . In the end you can't find a system that might satisfy all sides .

Iran had a referendum on whether the country should be governed by an Islamic constitution after the Shah was deposed so that may be the road you would going down.

Anyway, I'd say the compromise was to allow people the practice their religion but not to don't force anyone to. Just because a decision is arrived at democratically doesn't make it right. After all, if a referendum supported the enslavement of a particular minority group you wouldn't say that was morally right so you can't automatically excuse other impositions on the same basis that is was democratically decided. There's a bit more to democracy than just accepting that the will of the majority must always be right.

And if the state did remain secular would it prevent you from adhering to your religious beliefs? If not then why would you have a problem with it?

It's so not that simple , parents here raise their children with values , morals and religious teachings , we are taught Islam and Christians are taught values of christianity in school . Like I said before , I can't suddenly apply Islamic law and I have to gradually do it . And it's the same with secularism I think , how are you going to deal with current generations grown up with values , morals , eastern traditions and religious teachings , and suddenly come and say secular country is taking place , alcohol is fine , sexual freedom is open , a 16 years old girl has the right to call the police to get rid of parents' control . It's so complicated , you have to change the whole culture and generation and everything . And in the end I told you before , this can't work here , Egyptian people are religious since the time of ancient egyptians lived with faith , so how are you going today to deal with all that ?