~ Crypto-Currencies Mark an End to the Nation-State ~

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Bill Wiltrack
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~ Crypto-Currencies Mark an End to the Nation-State ~

Post by Bill Wiltrack »

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Because of the decentralized nature of cryptocurrencies there are no borders.

Fellow philosophers in the world-wide philosophy forum of humanity; The PhilosophyNow Forums, this is our moment. Join me, in welcoming the next generation of individuals who will truly be Citizens of the World!

One step closer to heaven. Joined in a common land; the earth, joined in a common goal; the development of all.

Public, immutable, decentralized, open ledgers put the economic discretion of individual nation-states in the rear view mirror.

The end of worthless, self-serving, central banks is here.


Welcome to the currency of the mind. Of logic. Of a new, world-wide shared common language rooted in the philosophy of mathematics.

We are all welcomed to the world of the mind...let us, as world-wide philosophers, enter.


I have no country to fight for; my country is the earth; I am a citizen of the world.
~~~ Eugene V. Debs ~~~






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bobevenson
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Re: ~ Crypto-Currencies Mark an End to the Nation-State ~

Post by bobevenson »

Quoting a union leader is not quoting a citizen of the world, it's quoting somebody who's against citizens of the world taking jobs from Americans.
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FlashDangerpants
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Re: ~ Crypto-Currencies Mark an End to the Nation-State ~

Post by FlashDangerpants »

Bill Wiltrack wrote: Mon Nov 06, 2017 8:35 pm The end of worthless, self-serving, central banks is here.
Bill Wiltrack wrote: Sun Oct 29, 2017 3:50 pm There will always be central banks & a central banking systems.


Make your mind up idiot.
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Sir-Sister-of-Suck
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Re: ~ Crypto-Currencies Mark an End to the Nation-State ~

Post by Sir-Sister-of-Suck »

I am extremely confused as to how crypto-currency retains its value, and not only that but fluctuates in value. From what I understand, they're just an extremely complex piece of code rendered by a computer. Don't you need something tangible to back that up in real life, and shouldn't their value actually drop as computers advance and are able to 'mine' them easier?
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Bill Wiltrack
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Re: ~ Crypto-Currencies Mark an End to the Nation-State ~

Post by Bill Wiltrack »

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You're not confused at all. Spot-on. Cryptocurrencies are computer code created by developers & coders.


*Presently, miners solve complex computer problems in order to earn Bitcoin or other proof-of-work cryptocurrencies.

Other than that, much of what cryptocurrencies are worth is connotative.



For extra points - What is the tangible asset behind the dollar or whatever your fiat you use?







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FlashDangerpants
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Re: ~ Crypto-Currencies Mark an End to the Nation-State ~

Post by FlashDangerpants »

Crypto currencies are basically mined by running a set of algorithms over and over again until you hit a magic number which exists somewhere in a chain of apparently random stuff much like Pi to the nth position. The problem is that it is easy to find the first few coins - but the next one in the chain takes more cycles to find, and the one after that a few more. Until the cycles involved are no longer possible on a normal desktop computer unless you are prepared to wait a long long time and spend a hell of a lot on electricity to get it. Bitcoin hit that stage years ago and most of the mining for it is done on specially designed cryptographic processors. Unlike Pi, there is an end to the chain, one day all the possible bitcoins will have been mined.

No currency has actual value, all value is imaginary. Even if we went back to the gold standard as some fossilised morons would like us to, the value of gold is imaginary too. The value of a proper currency is however maintained within reasonable limits compared to other imaginary currencies by central banks that apply controls to change the rate at which money flows around the system by either messing with the cost of money by setting the rates at which lenders can lend, or else by creating and destroying notional quantities in order to change the level of demand.

Crypto currencies are not presently subject to creation and destruction in that manner, and there is nobody to apply such controls if it were possible. Which is why their values are on a permanent roller coaster, which is why they cannot replace currency as used in the real economy.

They are in effect completely untethered. Their value derives from two things - scarcity which tends to push prices up on a steady curve, and sentiment, which sends them to the stratosphere until that one minute when all the smart people sell and all the sheep get fleeced. The dirty secret of that stuff of course, is that nobody genuinely knows where the top of that curve lies. Some cheeky bastard will get immensely rich, while others, having sold out early and then seen the thing continue to rise without them will have bought back in.

Willtrack is a techno utopian fantasist of a very particular kind though - he doesn't understand any of this stuff. He wouldn't know encryption if it bit him on the Zü÷»Bµ#?¥dìZs

He also doesn't understand that crypto currency needs a mechanism to maintain predictable prices like those of real money if it is ever to become actual currency for real people to use on a daily basis. Something which will likely happen - when the big banks define their crypto curency which he will HAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAATE so badly. Like these guys or something similar. It will totally be associated with tax avoidance schemes by the way - which is actually one of the things that drives up demand for the currency he put all his savings into.

Also, yes, before very long, probably, there will be such a thing as an actual quantum computer. Those (in theory) count in octal rather than binary and as such can get through the mining process mentioned above way way faster than binary computers. They may also crack some pretty hard core encryption that is deemed impossible to brute force today, rendering some old block chains completely unsound. I hesitate to mention this because we have a number of people other than Bill who don't understand computers but love to fantasise about them in magical ways. But if somebody with one of those to hand decided to go out and pay for it with a big bitcoin mining run, then yes, there would be a flood and the value would collapse. However a computer like that could equally steal all the orphaned bitcoin lost in wallets nobody has the crypto key for anymore. Or they could just empty your wallet.
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Bill Wiltrack
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Re: ~ Crypto-Currencies Mark an End to the Nation-State ~

Post by Bill Wiltrack »

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Think you're assuming a lot about me...but that's okay.


“You never change things by fighting the existing reality.
To change something, build a new model that makes the existing model obsolete.”
~~~ R. Buckminster Fuller ~~~








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Bill Wiltrack
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Re: ~ Crypto-Currencies Mark an End to the Nation-State ~

Post by Bill Wiltrack »

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Oh yeah...Your, these guys are NOT on a blockchain.

So, there's that...




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Arising_uk
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Re: ~ Crypto-Currencies Mark an End to the Nation-State ~

Post by Arising_uk »

Bill Wiltrack wrote:“You never change things by fighting the existing reality.
To change something, build a new model that makes the existing model obsolete.”
~~~ R. Buckminster Fuller ~~~[/size]
Are you actually building something then Bill?
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Arising_uk
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Re: ~ Crypto-Currencies Mark an End to the Nation-State ~

Post by Arising_uk »

Bill Wiltrack wrote:Oh yeah...Your, these guys are NOT on a blockchain.
But the institutions of Capitalism will be sooner or later so what will change?

You're the same kind of fellow who talked about the Interweeb being the saviour of democracy and look where that has led. Although if they'd followed Ted and not Tim and he'd not been such a nerd we might have had something that at least paid us for our thoughts.
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Bill Wiltrack
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Re: ~ Crypto-Currencies Mark an End to the Nation-State ~

Post by Bill Wiltrack »

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Quote I used of Buckminster Fuller was to exemplify that blockchains & crypto-currencies are new. New & different characteristics than we are accustomed to in the fiat currencies that we grew-up with.


Something new. I've really learned a lot about myself in the last couple of years, in no small part because of my discovery & exploration of cryptocurrencies. Introspective. Philosophical.






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Arising_uk
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Re: ~ Crypto-Currencies Mark an End to the Nation-State ~

Post by Arising_uk »

Bill Wiltrack wrote: Quote I used of Buckminster Fuller was to exemplify that blockchains & crypto-currencies are new. New & different characteristics than we are accustomed to in the fiat currencies that we grew-up with. ...
Blockchains are going to be used by central banks, financial institutions and government in future. Other than drugs-dealers and assorted criminals ans tax-dodgers, crypto-currencies will only take off when a government accepts them as payment for taxes.
Something new. I've really learned a lot about myself in the last couple of years, in no small part because of my discovery & exploration of cryptocurrencies. Introspective. Philosophical.
From what I saw you were just trying to make a tawdry buck.
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FlashDangerpants
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Re: ~ Crypto-Currencies Mark an End to the Nation-State ~

Post by FlashDangerpants »

Bill Wiltrack wrote: Tue Nov 07, 2017 1:17 am Oh yeah...Your, these guys are NOT on a blockchain.

So, there's that...
Oh yeah, odd they used to be. Looks like they must have decided to be a platform for other blockchains now. That's computer chaps for you.

I guess they must have decided there are too many of these big bank blockchain things going on and they couldn't win that battle. I mean there are just so fucking many. But of course that was just a few from the banks, but there's the whole wider asset management industry to consider. And of course the insurance industry.

All using blockchains for the ledger - which is useful - but mostly not the currency because that part is inherently unstable.
Bill Wiltrack wrote: Tue Nov 07, 2017 1:17 am Think you're assuming a lot about me...but that's okay.
You don't hide much, you have a massively inflated sense of your own value and are willing to broadcast all of it at maximum volume. You are blatantly ignorant with respect to both computers and economics, if you weren't it would have been noticeable before now.
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Bill Wiltrack
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Re: ~ Crypto-Currencies Mark an End to the Nation-State ~

Post by Bill Wiltrack »

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Have to admit, the element of possible profit may have entered into my initial excitement about crypto - even if that element of excitement was not intellectualized within me.


As you already know, I have been championing The Third Industrial Revolution; The Digital Revolution for years here now. Cryptocurrencies and blockchains represent the economic aspects of this disruptive Digital Revolution that we find ourselves in.


Funny story. The reason I initially was exposed to this new, exciting technology a few years ago is directly related to my relationship to The PhilosophyNow Forums.


You stated that blockchains are going to be used by central banks, financial institutions and government in future. That is true.

But on your next statement you seem like you may be under the influence of some glaring falsehoods... You can find some drug-dealers, criminals & tax dodgers operating within the scope of crypto but they also exist in the world of fiat. Actually more-so in fiat.

Interactions using cryptocurrencies leaves a clear, definite, traceable footprints in most cases. Some of the major exchanges will now block users who make purchases on some particular sites - like the Dark Net. Profits & losses in crypto are handled just as stock gains or losses are handled in fiat in regards to taxes.


Good luck to you & HAPPY TRADING!






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Arising_uk
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Re: ~ Crypto-Currencies Mark an End to the Nation-State ~

Post by Arising_uk »

Bill Wiltrack wrote:Have to admit, the element of possible profit may have entered into my initial excitement about crypto - even if that element of excitement was not intellectualized within me. ...
In English?
As you already know, I have been championing The Third Industrial Revolution; The Digital Revolution for years here now. Cryptocurrencies and blockchains represent the economic aspects of this disruptive Digital Revolution that we find ourselves in. ...
:lol:

Funny story. The reason I initially was exposed to this new, exciting technology a few years ago is directly related to my relationship to The PhilosophyNow Forums.
Yeah! You tried to get paid for your 'content'.
You stated that blockchains are going to be used by central banks, financial institutions and government in future. That is true.

But on your next statement you seem like you may be under the influence of some glaring falsehoods... You can find some drug-dealers, criminals & tax dodgers operating within the scope of crypto but they also exist in the world of fiat. Actually more-so in fiat.
Sure for the small dealers, etc but the big-boy international traders can't use the banking system so easily anymore so they have moved to crypto-currencies.
Interactions using cryptocurrencies leaves a clear, definite, traceable footprints in most cases. Some of the major exchanges will now block users who make purchases on some particular sites - like the Dark Net. Profits & losses in crypto are handled just as stock gains or losses are handled in fiat in regards to taxes. ...
Ever thought that the large criminal concerns may have already set up their own mining exchanges? That they are exactly the ones with the scale of funding to do so? That the traceability is only really useful if a mistake is made by the market buyers and vendors as still crypto-currencies are pretty pseudo-anonymous as it does not link to actual identities but IP addresses?

Here's another angle, the techniques that are being developed to reveal bitcoin owners also appear to be being used by your security services who appear to be hoovering-up the transactions on a large scale so major government surveillance. If this does become apparent then 'market systems' that use Bitcoin will probably tank along with Bitcoin as it is the 'anonymous' part that appeals in such a 'currency' and much more likely is that someone else will produce another 'market system' using different algorithms to preserve anonymity.

To top it off, as I've said, governments, financial institutions, et al will be using this technology in the future so your dreams of the collapse of whatever system it is you've got a bee about will be just pipe ones.
Good luck to you & HAPPY TRADING![/size]
At present I'd stick to stocks and shares and even the FX market if you wish to trade in an attempt to bolster one's income. But remember, never ever trade money you can't afford to lose.
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