Truman's folly

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Melchior
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Truman's folly

Post by Melchior » Sat Aug 12, 2017 3:35 am

He should have allowed MacArthur to finish them off....now look what has happened!


http://www.history.com/this-day-in-hist ... s-in-korea

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Gary Childress
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Re: Truman's folly

Post by Gary Childress » Sat Aug 12, 2017 4:26 am

Melchior wrote:
Sat Aug 12, 2017 3:35 am
He should have allowed MacArthur to finish them off....now look what has happened!


http://www.history.com/this-day-in-hist ... s-in-korea
In times of crisis I sort of sometimes turn to The Onion for news and advice.

http://www.theonion.com/article/report- ... assh-17277

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vegetariantaxidermy
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Re: Truman's folly

Post by vegetariantaxidermy » Sat Aug 12, 2017 7:17 am

Melchior wrote:
Sat Aug 12, 2017 3:35 am
He should have allowed MacArthur to finish them off....now look what has happened!


http://www.history.com/this-day-in-hist ... s-in-korea
Finish off who? What 'has happened'?

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vegetariantaxidermy
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Re: Truman's folly

Post by vegetariantaxidermy » Sat Aug 12, 2017 7:18 am

Gary Childress wrote:
Sat Aug 12, 2017 4:26 am
Melchior wrote:
Sat Aug 12, 2017 3:35 am
He should have allowed MacArthur to finish them off....now look what has happened!


http://www.history.com/this-day-in-hist ... s-in-korea
In times of crisis I sort of sometimes turn to The Onion for news and advice.

http://www.theonion.com/article/report- ... assh-17277
How very PC. You don't mind that he's calling for genocide. It's quite amusing to you in fact. Mass murder is fine with you, but 'insults' will NOT be tolerated!

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Gary Childress
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Re: Truman's folly

Post by Gary Childress » Sat Aug 12, 2017 2:21 pm

vegetariantaxidermy wrote:
Sat Aug 12, 2017 7:18 am
Gary Childress wrote:
Sat Aug 12, 2017 4:26 am
Melchior wrote:
Sat Aug 12, 2017 3:35 am
He should have allowed MacArthur to finish them off....now look what has happened!


http://www.history.com/this-day-in-hist ... s-in-korea
In times of crisis I sort of sometimes turn to The Onion for news and advice.

http://www.theonion.com/article/report- ... assh-17277
How very PC. You don't mind that he's calling for genocide. It's quite amusing to you in fact. Mass murder is fine with you, but 'insults' will NOT be tolerated!
I don't agree with Melchior's statement. I posted the satire piece because I thought it would cool him down a little. But you are right, maybe I should have posted a denunciation instead. Melchior's statement is unacceptable and unconstructive in a world that is getting more and more dangerous.

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Gary Childress
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Re: Truman's folly

Post by Gary Childress » Sat Aug 12, 2017 3:41 pm

BTW, VT: Are you sure Melchior is calling for genocide and not rather saying the US should have pursued surrender on the part of NK instead of backing off the war (and apparently leaving the problem to fester into what may be a worse one)?

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Gary Childress
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Re: FYI Melchior

Post by Gary Childress » Sat Aug 12, 2017 5:12 pm

Melchior, feel free to reply to my comments about your OP in my answer to VT's post. I'm up for dialog if it is constructive.

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vegetariantaxidermy
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Re: FYI Melchior

Post by vegetariantaxidermy » Sat Aug 12, 2017 9:56 pm

Gary Childress wrote:
Sat Aug 12, 2017 5:12 pm
Melchior, feel free to reply to my comments about your OP in my answer to VT's post. I'm up for dialog if it is constructive.
I've never seen Melchior have dialogue. He just pops up now and then with a comment then disappears again.

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Gary Childress
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Re: FYI Melchior

Post by Gary Childress » Sun Aug 13, 2017 3:07 am

vegetariantaxidermy wrote:
Sat Aug 12, 2017 9:56 pm
Gary Childress wrote:
Sat Aug 12, 2017 5:12 pm
Melchior, feel free to reply to my comments about your OP in my answer to VT's post. I'm up for dialog if it is constructive.
I've never seen Melchior have dialogue. He just pops up now and then with a comment then disappears again.
I've noticed that too. I have tried a few times to coax dialogue from him and he responded with some thoughtful replies. He seems plenty intelligent, however, he seems a little deficient in compassion and empathy.

Dubious
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Re: FYI Melchior

Post by Dubious » Sun Aug 13, 2017 3:41 am

Gary Childress wrote:
Sun Aug 13, 2017 3:07 am
vegetariantaxidermy wrote:
Sat Aug 12, 2017 9:56 pm
Gary Childress wrote:
Sat Aug 12, 2017 5:12 pm
Melchior, feel free to reply to my comments about your OP in my answer to VT's post. I'm up for dialog if it is constructive.
I've never seen Melchior have dialogue. He just pops up now and then with a comment then disappears again.
I've noticed that too. I have tried a few times to coax dialogue from him and he responded with some thoughtful replies. He seems plenty intelligent, however, he seems a little deficient in compassion and empathy.
There exist circumstances in which compassion and empathy are useless and simply get in the way. It cannot and should not be applied indiscriminately across the board. There are many not worthy of it.

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Gary Childress
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Re: FYI Melchior

Post by Gary Childress » Sun Aug 13, 2017 4:21 am

Dubious wrote:
Sun Aug 13, 2017 3:41 am
Gary Childress wrote:
Sun Aug 13, 2017 3:07 am
vegetariantaxidermy wrote:
Sat Aug 12, 2017 9:56 pm


I've never seen Melchior have dialogue. He just pops up now and then with a comment then disappears again.
I've noticed that too. I have tried a few times to coax dialogue from him and he responded with some thoughtful replies. He seems plenty intelligent, however, he seems a little deficient in compassion and empathy.
There exist circumstances in which compassion and empathy are useless and simply get in the way. It cannot and should not be applied indiscriminately across the board. There are many not worthy of it.
I agree. People who commit heinous acts are not deserving of compassion and empathy. For example Kim Jong Un seems to be unworthy of any compassion and I don't have any for him. However, I have enough empathy and compassion for many soldiers and civilians on both sides of the conflict during the war in Korea that I support Truman's decision not to pursue the war further. Pursuing it further would have resulted in many more lives being lost on both sides.

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vegetariantaxidermy
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Re: FYI Melchior

Post by vegetariantaxidermy » Sun Aug 13, 2017 5:18 am

Gary Childress wrote:
Sun Aug 13, 2017 4:21 am
Dubious wrote:
Sun Aug 13, 2017 3:41 am
Gary Childress wrote:
Sun Aug 13, 2017 3:07 am


I've noticed that too. I have tried a few times to coax dialogue from him and he responded with some thoughtful replies. He seems plenty intelligent, however, he seems a little deficient in compassion and empathy.
There exist circumstances in which compassion and empathy are useless and simply get in the way. It cannot and should not be applied indiscriminately across the board. There are many not worthy of it.
I agree. People who commit heinous acts are not deserving of compassion and empathy. For example Kim Jong Un seems to be unworthy of any compassion and I don't have any for him. However, I have enough empathy and compassion for many soldiers and civilians on both sides of the conflict during the war in Korea that I support Truman's decision not to pursue the war further. Pursuing it further would have resulted in many more lives being lost on both sides.
Why would you 'need' to have compassion for Kim? He's not suffering is he? Are you saying that if you don't have 'compassion' for someone then that gives the green light to attack them?

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Gary Childress
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Re: FYI Melchior

Post by Gary Childress » Sun Aug 13, 2017 7:28 am

vegetariantaxidermy wrote:
Sun Aug 13, 2017 5:18 am
Gary Childress wrote:
Sun Aug 13, 2017 4:21 am
Dubious wrote:
Sun Aug 13, 2017 3:41 am


There exist circumstances in which compassion and empathy are useless and simply get in the way. It cannot and should not be applied indiscriminately across the board. There are many not worthy of it.
I agree. People who commit heinous acts are not deserving of compassion and empathy. For example Kim Jong Un seems to be unworthy of any compassion and I don't have any for him. However, I have enough empathy and compassion for many soldiers and civilians on both sides of the conflict during the war in Korea that I support Truman's decision not to pursue the war further. Pursuing it further would have resulted in many more lives being lost on both sides.
Why would you 'need' to have compassion for Kim? He's not suffering is he? Are you saying that if you don't have 'compassion' for someone then that gives the green light to attack them?
I guess as an American, since KJU is acting very aggressive and threatening to us, I sort of feel unable to care if something bad were to happen to him. My heart wouldn't bleed for him.

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vegetariantaxidermy
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Re: FYI Melchior

Post by vegetariantaxidermy » Sun Aug 13, 2017 9:56 am

Gary Childress wrote:
Sun Aug 13, 2017 7:28 am
vegetariantaxidermy wrote:
Sun Aug 13, 2017 5:18 am
Gary Childress wrote:
Sun Aug 13, 2017 4:21 am


I agree. People who commit heinous acts are not deserving of compassion and empathy. For example Kim Jong Un seems to be unworthy of any compassion and I don't have any for him. However, I have enough empathy and compassion for many soldiers and civilians on both sides of the conflict during the war in Korea that I support Truman's decision not to pursue the war further. Pursuing it further would have resulted in many more lives being lost on both sides.
Why would you 'need' to have compassion for Kim? He's not suffering is he? Are you saying that if you don't have 'compassion' for someone then that gives the green light to attack them?
I guess as an American, since KJU is acting very aggressive and threatening to us, I sort of feel unable to care if something bad were to happen to him. My heart wouldn't bleed for him.
Mine wouldn't either, but the US is just looking for an excuse to attack YET another country. And do you seriously think the bad haircut one is going to be able to sneak up on the US and attack it? Or send nuclear missiles all that way without being intercepted? Give me a break. Your country is the most aggressive on the planet but you seem to think that's ok. Do you not think it aggressive that the US has surrounded China with 400 bases in a deliberate act of provocation? What would you do if China did the same thing to you? People don't realise that the US is the one being aggressive in Asia. The idiots think this Kim guy is just spouting off for nothing, threatening poor, innocent Amorrica. Your country is a cunnt and that's all there is to it. Well it looks like your apocalyptic morons will get the annihilation they have wet dreams about.

'' “When it comes to how we should deal with evildoers, the Bible, in the book of Romans, is very clear: God has endowed rulers full power to use whatever means necessary — including war — to stop evil,” Jeffress said. “In the case of North Korea, God has given Trump authority to take out Kim Jong Un.”
….
The biblical passage Romans 13 gives the government authority to deal with evildoers, Jeffress said. “That gives the government to [sic] the authority to do whatever, whether it’s assassination, capital punishment or evil punishment to quell the actions of evildoers like Kim Jong Un,” he said. ''
--Trump adviser Robert Jeffress.
Last edited by vegetariantaxidermy on Sun Aug 13, 2017 10:19 am, edited 1 time in total.

Londoner
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Re: Truman's folly

Post by Londoner » Sun Aug 13, 2017 10:14 am

Suppose KJU is as much a victim of his nations social system as any of his people? It may be that he is a complete puppet. Or it may be that he is juggling policies in response to pressure from various factions as a matter of self-preservation. (And the same may be true of everyone else in North Korea.)

Or there is the question of 'moral luck'. KJU was born into a particular society, with particular norms and a particular picture of the world. If you or I had been born in his place, isn't it likely we would think and act in much the same way he does?

If we are totally without compassion of KJU, we must de-humanise him. Treat him not as a human like us, but as vermin. And if we think we should use nuclear weapons against him, we are saying the same about all North Koreans. That even the small children of the humblest peasants we will kill are as responsible and deserving of death as KJU.

If it is purely about self-defence we get round that. Then we can justify it as the best of two very bad options. But to deny the possibility of compassion for KJU or any other human is not to justify self-defence; it is to put us in a state of mind to justify genocide.

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