Your call. What do you do?

How should society be organised, if at all?

Moderators: AMod, iMod

Post Reply
Gary Childress
Posts: 8117
Joined: Sun Sep 25, 2011 3:08 pm
Location: Retirement Home for foolosophers

Re: Your call. What do you do?

Post by Gary Childress »

Philosophy Explorer wrote: Fri Aug 11, 2017 11:06 am
vegetariantaxidermy wrote: Fri Aug 11, 2017 11:00 am Well it is a rather ugly and obnoxious-sounding word.....
Does this imply you're ugly and obnoxious since you like to use the word so much?

PhilX 🇺🇸
I think it best to simmer down, PhilX. This is not getting anywhere.
User avatar
vegetariantaxidermy
Posts: 13983
Joined: Thu Aug 09, 2012 6:45 am
Location: Narniabiznus

Re: Your call. What do you do?

Post by vegetariantaxidermy »

Well I suppose it stands to reason that the only nice and genuine American on here is a schizophrenic.
And yes. I know you are waiting for my comments PE. :|
Gary Childress
Posts: 8117
Joined: Sun Sep 25, 2011 3:08 pm
Location: Retirement Home for foolosophers

Re: Your call. What do you do?

Post by Gary Childress »

vegetariantaxidermy wrote: Fri Aug 11, 2017 11:44 am Well I suppose it stands to reason that the only nice and genuine American on here is a schizophrenic.
And yes. I know you are waiting for my comments PE. :|
I would prefer to say that I *have* schizophrenia and that I'm not *a* "schizophrenic". However, my condition has since been re-evaluated and my diagnosis has been changed to Bipolar disorder. Possibly/hopefully a sign that I'm getting a bit better. But, for what it's worth, thanks for the kind acknowledgement.
User avatar
vegetariantaxidermy
Posts: 13983
Joined: Thu Aug 09, 2012 6:45 am
Location: Narniabiznus

Re: Your call. What do you do?

Post by vegetariantaxidermy »

Image
Gary Childress
Posts: 8117
Joined: Sun Sep 25, 2011 3:08 pm
Location: Retirement Home for foolosophers

Re: Your call. What do you do?

Post by Gary Childress »

vegetariantaxidermy wrote: Fri Aug 11, 2017 12:09 pm Image
I'm not sure I understand what you are trying to get at in posting that picture, VT. Can you elaborate a little.
User avatar
vegetariantaxidermy
Posts: 13983
Joined: Thu Aug 09, 2012 6:45 am
Location: Narniabiznus

Re: Your call. What do you do?

Post by vegetariantaxidermy »

Gary Childress wrote: Fri Aug 11, 2017 12:12 pm
I'm not sure I understand what you are trying to get at in posting that picture, VT. Can you elaborate a little. We're all adults here and can surely communicate in rational means.
It's not that difficult. When you said you were offended by 'schizophrenic' but not by 'has schizophrenia' it reminded me of the 'help spastics' photo I saw earlier today on another site.
I was in no way suggesting you are a spastic (or 'spastic'. I don't think I've ever used the word so I'm not sure what the correct etiquette is). I'm genuinely fascinated by social evolution and how these changes come about.

''Benedict Cumberbatch has come under fire for misguidedly using the word 'coloured' in an interview.''

''Coloured person''=evil to the point of causing unbearable suffering and suicidal depression to those described as such.
''Person of colour''=very very good. Passes the PC code of ethics and 'minimal offending capability scale' with flying colours (can we say colours? :shock: )
Gary Childress
Posts: 8117
Joined: Sun Sep 25, 2011 3:08 pm
Location: Retirement Home for foolosophers

Re: Your call. What do you do?

Post by Gary Childress »

vegetariantaxidermy wrote: Fri Aug 11, 2017 12:22 pm
Gary Childress wrote: Fri Aug 11, 2017 12:12 pm
I'm not sure I understand what you are trying to get at in posting that picture, VT. Can you elaborate a little. We're all adults here and can surely communicate in rational means.
It's not that difficult.
I disagree. Posting a picture can be ambiguous and can be taken in many ways.
User avatar
vegetariantaxidermy
Posts: 13983
Joined: Thu Aug 09, 2012 6:45 am
Location: Narniabiznus

Re: Your call. What do you do?

Post by vegetariantaxidermy »

Gary Childress wrote: Fri Aug 11, 2017 12:36 pm
vegetariantaxidermy wrote: Fri Aug 11, 2017 12:22 pm
Gary Childress wrote: Fri Aug 11, 2017 12:12 pm
I'm not sure I understand what you are trying to get at in posting that picture, VT. Can you elaborate a little. We're all adults here and can surely communicate in rational means.
It's not that difficult.
I disagree. Posting a picture can be ambiguous and can be taken in many ways.
I can't really help that. It had nothing to do with you personally, apart from what you said that made me think of it. If you want to be offended then that's your business. I've known a few bi-polar people. It's not something that is noticeable to others. I've also encountered people using the word as an insult.
Gary Childress
Posts: 8117
Joined: Sun Sep 25, 2011 3:08 pm
Location: Retirement Home for foolosophers

Re: Your call. What do you do?

Post by Gary Childress »

vegetariantaxidermy wrote: Fri Aug 11, 2017 12:53 pm
Gary Childress wrote: Fri Aug 11, 2017 12:36 pm
vegetariantaxidermy wrote: Fri Aug 11, 2017 12:22 pm

It's not that difficult.
I disagree. Posting a picture can be ambiguous and can be taken in many ways.
I can't really help that.
Again I disagree. You have other options and other ways of communicating available to you. You chose a very ambiguous means. I suggest using clearer and more concise means of communication. Obviously you don't have to take my advice. But if you don't wish people to misunderstand you in the future, then it's probably in part your own fault.
User avatar
Greta
Posts: 4389
Joined: Sat Aug 08, 2015 8:10 am

Re: Your call. What do you do?

Post by Greta »

Gary Childress wrote: Fri Aug 11, 2017 11:38 am Thanks for sharing your thoughts, Greta and Londoner.

Greta, there is rough housing and banter among Americans too. I don't know if it significantly differs in style from what some Australians may engage in or not. I witnessed the phenomenon a lot in college on both ends. It seems to bring up memories of being teased by almost the entire class several times at school in childhood. I was utterly destroyed the first time it happened and from that point forward I started to exhibit various recessive social traits including nervous twitches that only seemed to contribute to the way others treated me. It was a traumatic experience growing up that caused depression and later in life around 25 years of age I developed a thought disorder that was initially classified as schizophrenia. I had no prior family history of the mental illness so it was a bit unprecedented that I developed it.

Rough housing and banter also bring up memory of a large group of kids I witnessed poking fun at a kid with Down syndrome until the poor kid was lashing out in all directions out of frustration. It sort of struck me at the time that the poor kid would probably never in his life experience things like love and intimate affection from others. When rough housing turns into pecking (what I see as a very real phenomenon where the majority effectively act to put down a sick member for eugenic reasons) it brings up memories like that. I've never known intimate affection from a female. I recently dated a girl which, for the first time, developed into intimate affection but she soon flew off looking for greener pastures.

In any case some seem to see rough housing and banter as just another facet of human socialization. I have trouble perceiving it that way. I see much darker and more sinister eugenic urges working underneath.

Londoner, I remember growing up watching John Wayne movies. A recurring theme in those movies was that after all the banter and rough housing was finished (in a bar fight over a minor disagreement for example) everyone bought each other a drink and continued civil relations into the sunset. For the reasons I mention above to Greta, it's hard for me to see things that way. Underneath I perceive more sinister forces and urges at work. I don't know if my perceptions are real or just phantasms from the past but I prefer civil discussion and will probably always do so.
Gary, I was saddened to hear your story. You seem a nice man and it's a shame when bad things happen to good people.

Meanwhile I had a similar time to you at school (diagnosed ADHD many years later) which screwed up my life for decades. I was obsessed enough with bullying in general that I ran a resources website for bullied workers in my jurisdiction for about a decade. It's profoundly damaging and for too long schools have taken a Darwinian "tough titties" approach to bullying. Unless society doesn't mind churning out people with compromised abilities due to damage.

Re banter: there were many local boys around my age I was well aware that their friendly banter was a world apart from the exclusion, insults, snideness, violence, threats and general cruelty of school. You know the difference better than you say IMO. After all, you knew I meant no harm in unapologetically persisting with the word "Yank" in my last post :)
Gary Childress
Posts: 8117
Joined: Sun Sep 25, 2011 3:08 pm
Location: Retirement Home for foolosophers

Re: Your call. What do you do?

Post by Gary Childress »

vegetariantaxidermy wrote: Fri Aug 11, 2017 12:22 pm
Gary Childress wrote: Fri Aug 11, 2017 12:12 pm
I'm not sure I understand what you are trying to get at in posting that picture, VT. Can you elaborate a little. We're all adults here and can surely communicate in rational means.
When you said you were offended by 'schizophrenic' but not by 'has schizophrenia' it reminded me of the 'help spastics' photo I saw earlier today on another site.
I was in no way suggesting you are a spastic (or 'spastic'. I don't think I've ever used the word so I'm not sure what the correct etiquette is). I'm genuinely fascinated by social evolution and how these changes come about.

''Benedict Cumberbatch has come under fire for misguidedly using the word 'coloured' in an interview.''

''Coloured person''=evil to the point of causing unbearable suffering and suicidal depression to those described as such.
''Person of colour''=very very good. Passes the PC code of ethics and 'minimal offending capability scale' with flying colours (can we say colours? :shock: )
Fair enough. I guess if I have schizophrenia, then I must be "a schizophrenic". BTW: I checked out the Urban dictionary for a definition of "spastic" and it said that it's a very derogatory insult in Britain [edit: sorry I should say UK] along the lines of calling someone "retarded". Maybe my social development was a bit "retarded" by events that profoundly shaped and contorted my psyche in youth. So I suppose I do fit the label, to whatever degree, of being "retarded" also. From that information I thought maybe you were alluding to me that I am "spastic" by posting the picture. However, I gave you benefit of the doubt and asked what you meant by the picture of whatever device with the word "spastics" on it. I thought I was being charitable but I suppose I was inhibiting your freedom of speech to make me feel like I'm an inferior and defective human being. Maybe, if the shoe fits, then I should just wear it. Nothing in this world is ever really going to change. People will be people. I suppose humanity really is a malicious mutation. Call me "a schizophrenic" or "a retard" if you wish.
Last edited by Gary Childress on Fri Aug 11, 2017 2:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Gary Childress
Posts: 8117
Joined: Sun Sep 25, 2011 3:08 pm
Location: Retirement Home for foolosophers

Re: Your call. What do you do?

Post by Gary Childress »

Greta wrote: Fri Aug 11, 2017 2:19 pm
Gary Childress wrote: Fri Aug 11, 2017 11:38 am Thanks for sharing your thoughts, Greta and Londoner.

Greta, there is rough housing and banter among Americans too. I don't know if it significantly differs in style from what some Australians may engage in or not. I witnessed the phenomenon a lot in college on both ends. It seems to bring up memories of being teased by almost the entire class several times at school in childhood. I was utterly destroyed the first time it happened and from that point forward I started to exhibit various recessive social traits including nervous twitches that only seemed to contribute to the way others treated me. It was a traumatic experience growing up that caused depression and later in life around 25 years of age I developed a thought disorder that was initially classified as schizophrenia. I had no prior family history of the mental illness so it was a bit unprecedented that I developed it.

Rough housing and banter also bring up memory of a large group of kids I witnessed poking fun at a kid with Down syndrome until the poor kid was lashing out in all directions out of frustration. It sort of struck me at the time that the poor kid would probably never in his life experience things like love and intimate affection from others. When rough housing turns into pecking (what I see as a very real phenomenon where the majority effectively act to put down a sick member for eugenic reasons) it brings up memories like that. I've never known intimate affection from a female. I recently dated a girl which, for the first time, developed into intimate affection but she soon flew off looking for greener pastures.

In any case some seem to see rough housing and banter as just another facet of human socialization. I have trouble perceiving it that way. I see much darker and more sinister eugenic urges working underneath.

Londoner, I remember growing up watching John Wayne movies. A recurring theme in those movies was that after all the banter and rough housing was finished (in a bar fight over a minor disagreement for example) everyone bought each other a drink and continued civil relations into the sunset. For the reasons I mention above to Greta, it's hard for me to see things that way. Underneath I perceive more sinister forces and urges at work. I don't know if my perceptions are real or just phantasms from the past but I prefer civil discussion and will probably always do so.
Gary, I was saddened to hear your story. You seem a nice man and it's a shame when bad things happen to good people.

Meanwhile I had a similar time to you at school (diagnosed ADHD many years later) which screwed up my life for decades. I was obsessed enough with bullying in general that I ran a resources website for bullied workers in my jurisdiction for about a decade. It's profoundly damaging and for too long schools have taken a Darwinian "tough titties" approach to bullying. Unless society doesn't mind churning out people with compromised abilities due to damage.

Re banter: there were many local boys around my age I was well aware that their friendly banter was a world apart from the exclusion, insults, snideness, violence, threats and general cruelty of school. You know the difference better than you say IMO. After all, you knew I meant no harm in unapologetically persisting with the word "Yank" in my last post :)
Hi Greta, yes I understood your use of the word "yank" and knew you didn't mean it in a degrading way. And I understand that there is rough housing and banter from friends that is probably more akin to preparing a person for the same sort of treatment from outsiders. I've also looked back on my experiences from childhood and have come to accept some of my own fault for bringing some of the bad treatment upon myself to whatever degree. However, like I say, it was very traumatic (meaning something that profoundly affected my psyche) to experience what I did in childhood. That's why I am maybe overly sensitive to insults and rough housing. I feel like I'm damaged for the rest of my life and will never be able to fit in with the rest of humanity. I mostly keep to a circle of friends who are also all diagnosed with mental illnesses. They are the only people I can really talk and relate to. Such is life.
Belinda
Posts: 8034
Joined: Fri Aug 26, 2016 10:13 am

Re: Your call. What do you do?

Post by Belinda »

Gary Childress wrote:
BTW: I checked out the Urban dictionary for a definition of "spastic" and it said that it's a very derogatory insult in Britain [edit: sorry I should say UK] along the lines of calling someone "retarded".
It's bad anywhere, not only in Britain,(I am British and I don't always know what to call the country :oops: ) to call someone "a spastic". This is because spasticity should not define a person. It is unpleasant to have spastic muscular movements, and if I had spastic muscular movements I would like to be defined as a person, a woman, an old lady, a Scotswoman, anything which it is okay to be as long as it's not abusive. Similarly we should not refer to "the deaf" and "the blind" as though deaf people and blind people were sectioned off from the rest of society which they are not in any decent company.

It is true that some defects are used as insults. This is bad for the person who employs the insult because they could become a sufferer themself , and then they have insulted themself.

Similarly in any well-run hospital or clinic a patient with schizophrenia is not called "a schizophrenic" . Without a doubt that patient is a well-rounded person and it is disproportionate to identify them by their disability.

There used to be time when patients were referred to as "cases" of this or "cases" of that. Not any longer if the clinician has professional good manners.
User avatar
vegetariantaxidermy
Posts: 13983
Joined: Thu Aug 09, 2012 6:45 am
Location: Narniabiznus

Re: Your call. What do you do?

Post by vegetariantaxidermy »

Gary Childress wrote: Fri Aug 11, 2017 1:01 pm
vegetariantaxidermy wrote: Fri Aug 11, 2017 12:53 pm
Gary Childress wrote: Fri Aug 11, 2017 12:36 pm

I disagree. Posting a picture can be ambiguous and can be taken in many ways.
I can't really help that.
Again I disagree. You have other options and other ways of communicating available to you. You chose a very ambiguous means. I suggest using clearer and more concise means of communication. Obviously you don't have to take my advice. But if you don't wish people to misunderstand you in the future, then it's probably in part your own fault.
Disagree all you want. I don't think any yank on here has ever understood a single thing I have written, so one more time isn't going to make a heck of a lot of difference. Thanks for the advice. Have a nice day :D
Belinda
Posts: 8034
Joined: Fri Aug 26, 2016 10:13 am

Re: Your call. What do you do?

Post by Belinda »

Veggy wrote:
Disagree all you want. I don't think any yank on here has ever understood a single thing I have written, so one more time isn't going to make a heck of a lot of difference. Thanks for the advice. Have a nice day :D
You should not say that about Yanks. The best universities in the world are American, last time I saw the league tables.
Post Reply