Why is it ok to discriminate when you get married?

How should society be organised, if at all?

Moderators: AMod, iMod

Philosophy Explorer
Posts: 5621
Joined: Sun Aug 31, 2014 7:39 am

Why is it ok to discriminate when you get married?

Post by Philosophy Explorer »

For example it's against the law to discriminate when you hire somebody. But when it comes to marriage, the law says basically nothing about who you can or can not get married to. Why would that be?

PhilX
Science Fan
Posts: 843
Joined: Fri May 26, 2017 5:01 pm

Re: Why is it ok to discriminate when you get married?

Post by Science Fan »

To make sense out of this question, it is helpful to think like an economist, as opposed to a moral philosopher. Let's say you are a young black person and are thinking of getting an engineering degree. You find out, however, that other black people who have obtained engineering degrees have a hard time finding a job in engineering, due to discrimination, and that even when they do find a job in engineering, they are paid a very low wage. Also, it's even hard getting a lower-skilled non-engineering job at that point, because you are then considered to be over-qualified. Under those circumstances, what do you do? The smart thing is not to get the degree and try to find a lower-skilled job.

In other words, by allowing active discrimination against minorities, we lose out on the productive capabilities of minorities, and there are negative externalities present, which encourage minorities not to better themselves. By outlawing discrimination, society gains because then the smart, hard-working minorities, get to add to a growing economy.

It also creates a lot of social unrest to be poor, in the midst of plenty, while knowing you are poor due to discrimination.

So, outlawing employment discrimination makes us better off economically.

Passing laws making people marry certain people would not make us better off economically, and would cause a lot of harm to a person who wants to marry a certain individual, but is denied that ability.

Although anarchists and libertarians try to argue that the employment markets are the same as marriage markets, from an economic standpoint, this is not the case. Therefore, because the situations are different, and we can benefit ourselves as well as the minority communities by banning employment discrimination, from an economic standpoint, it makes sense to do so.
Science Fan
Posts: 843
Joined: Fri May 26, 2017 5:01 pm

Re: Why is it ok to discriminate when you get married?

Post by Science Fan »

We can also add a distinction between private employment and government employment. Minorities pay their taxes to support the government, so it seems unjust to deny them equal access to government jobs.
duszek
Posts: 2356
Joined: Wed Jun 03, 2009 5:27 pm
Location: Thin Air

Re: Why is it ok to discriminate when you get married?

Post by duszek »

Today people marry those whom they love most.

Can you imagine a person who says: "I love this person with a different cultural background and different skin color but I marry someone like myself because I am a racist." ???

:mrgreen:

I cannot.
Walker
Posts: 14280
Joined: Thu Nov 05, 2015 12:00 am

Re: Why is it ok to discriminate when you get married?

Post by Walker »

duszek wrote: Sun Jun 25, 2017 10:13 am Today people marry those whom they love most.

Can you imagine a person who says: "I love this person with a different cultural background and different skin color but I marry someone like myself because I am a racist." ???

:mrgreen:

I cannot.
This implies that singles haven’t met anyone more beloved than themselves.
duszek
Posts: 2356
Joined: Wed Jun 03, 2009 5:27 pm
Location: Thin Air

Re: Why is it ok to discriminate when you get married?

Post by duszek »

Point taken, Walker.

So if we put love aside and focus on interests, can one imagine a person saying:

I cannot marry this person who will make me successful and flourishing because I prefer a bum from my own race.

???
User avatar
Harbal
Posts: 9556
Joined: Thu Jun 20, 2013 10:03 pm
Location: Yorkshire
Contact:

Re: Why is it ok to discriminate when you get married?

Post by Harbal »

Science Fan wrote: Thu Jun 22, 2017 4:36 pm Let's say you are a young black person and are thinking of getting an engineering degree. You find out, however, that other black people who have obtained engineering degrees have a hard time finding a job in engineering, due to discrimination, and that even when they do find a job in engineering, they are paid a very low wage.
That may not necessarily be due to discrimination, it could be that there is simply less demand for black engineering at any particular point in time.
Skip
Posts: 2820
Joined: Tue Aug 09, 2011 1:34 pm

Re: Why is it ok to discriminate when you get married?

Post by Skip »

Philosophy Explorer wrote: Thu Jun 22, 2017 6:20 am But when it comes to marriage, the law says basically nothing about who you can or can not get married to.
PhilX
[/quote]
That's not true. While the law does change in each country, over time, according to the people's concept of correct conduct, every country does have laws regarding marriage. Some are very strict, some are quite lax; the most rigidly religious ones have narrow restrictions; to at the very least, all have eligibility requirements. It's not so long ago that interracial marriage was forbidden in the US, and 10-15 states are still holding out against same-sex marriage, two years after the Supreme Court decision. The crown prince of Great highly advanced Britain couldn't marry a divorced woman.
Skip
Posts: 2820
Joined: Tue Aug 09, 2011 1:34 pm

Re: Why is it ok to discriminate when you get married?

Post by Skip »

duszek wrote: Sun Jun 25, 2017 10:13 am Today people marry those whom they love most.

Can you imagine a person who says: "I love this person with a different cultural background and different skin color but I marry someone like myself because I am a racist." ???
No, they wouldn't say that. Usually, racists deny being racist, even to themselves. They would just so happen to not find a person of another race physically attractive, or not have anything in common with a person from another culture, so they never would get to know any.
Of course, some are so hypocritical that they might very well go to a prostitute, or keep a mistress, even beget children on, women of some exotic phenotype, but never consider marrying her.
Philosophy Explorer
Posts: 5621
Joined: Sun Aug 31, 2014 7:39 am

Re: Why is it ok to discriminate when you get married?

Post by Philosophy Explorer »

Skip wrote: Sun Jun 25, 2017 2:19 pm
Philosophy Explorer wrote: Thu Jun 22, 2017 6:20 am But when it comes to marriage, the law says basically nothing about who you can or can not get married to.
PhilX
That's not true. While the law does change in each country, over time, according to the people's concept of correct conduct, every country does have laws regarding marriage. Some are very strict, some are quite lax; the most rigidly religious ones have narrow restrictions; to at the very least, all have eligibility requirements. It's not so long ago that interracial marriage was forbidden in the US, and 10-15 states are still holding out against same-sex marriage, two years after the Supreme Court decision. The crown prince of Great highly advanced Britain couldn't marry a divorced woman.
[/quote]

Hi Skip,

I don't disagree with what you're saying here. My thread is focused on a different type of discrimination, the one where a man or woman gets to pick who he/she wants to be with as opposed to a boss or company that decides who they want to hire.

PhilX
Skip
Posts: 2820
Joined: Tue Aug 09, 2011 1:34 pm

Re: Why is it ok to discriminate when you get married?

Post by Skip »

Philosophy Explorer wrote: Sun Jun 25, 2017 3:00 pm I don't disagree with what you're saying here. My thread is focused on a different type of discrimination, the one where a man or woman gets to pick who he/she wants to be with as opposed to a boss or company that decides who they want to hire.

PhilX
And did you seriously think those two areas of life and society have anything in common, from a constitutional standpoint, or are you just looking for ever-more-scarce muddy water?

For that matter, why are people not required to marry by lot?
From 18 to 35, all singles, when their number comes up, must marry their statistically compatible opposite number.
duszek
Posts: 2356
Joined: Wed Jun 03, 2009 5:27 pm
Location: Thin Air

Re: Why is it ok to discriminate when you get married?

Post by duszek »

Skip wrote: Sun Jun 25, 2017 3:49 pm
PhilX
And did you seriously think those two areas of life and society have anything in common, from a constitutional standpoint, or are you just looking for ever-more-scarce muddy water?

For that matter, why are people not required to marry by lot?
From 18 to 35, all singles, when their number comes up, must marry their statistically compatible opposite number.
[/quote]

In a free country ? :shock:

How about the human rights of bachelors and bachelorettes ?

Such coersion would create misery and hate among millions ...
duszek
Posts: 2356
Joined: Wed Jun 03, 2009 5:27 pm
Location: Thin Air

Re: Why is it ok to discriminate when you get married?

Post by duszek »

Philosophy Explorer wrote: Sun Jun 25, 2017 3:00 pm

Hi Skip,

I don't disagree with what you're saying here. My thread is focused on a different type of discrimination, the one where a man or woman gets to pick who he/she wants to be with as opposed to a boss or company that decides who they want to hire.

PhilX
Birds of a feather flock together.
If you look for a real soul-mate then someone most like yourself is better.
If you look for adventure and challenging experiences then exotic friends are better.

From the point of view of European women picking a man from an exotic country can mean a lot of stress because women´s rights are still not a matter of fact in other parts of the world.

There are lots of stories about disillusioned women who woke up too late.

I for one would always pick someone like myself hoping that I can estimate the feelings of the other person better that way and avoid stress and misunderstandings.

There are no black Poles as far as I know but if there were some the skin colour would not be an issue, other things being equal.

I remember a story by Patricia Highsmith about a white American lady who married a Mexican man and moved to Mexico. She ended up badly.
duszek
Posts: 2356
Joined: Wed Jun 03, 2009 5:27 pm
Location: Thin Air

Re: Why is it ok to discriminate when you get married?

Post by duszek »

People marry for different reasons, if a person of a certain race seems like an impediment to a person´s career they may back off.

Many a young man backed off when a lady he wanted to marry was disinherited because he wanted to marry for money. (H. James, "Washington Square")
In a country like India this would not even be anything to be ashamed of, if I am well informed. Dowry is part of the deal.

It´s good when kids of different races grow up together in schools and nurseries. They learn to know each other from early on and they can make reasonable choices later. They develop useful criteria due to personal experience.
Skip
Posts: 2820
Joined: Tue Aug 09, 2011 1:34 pm

Re: Why is it ok to discriminate when you get married?

Post by Skip »

I was just making fun of the topic, because it's a silly topic.
Constitutional rights and guarantees against discrimination have nothing to do with private, personal relations.
Post Reply