Should there be absolute separation of church and state?

How should society be organised, if at all?

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Hobbes' Choice
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Re: Should there be absolute separation of church and state?

Post by Hobbes' Choice »

bobevenson wrote:
Hobbes' Choice wrote:One Nation under god...
In god we trust.
Who the fuck are you guys kidding?
That's got nothing to do with churches like your stupid Church of England, you wanker!

In the UK we control the church. In the USA the church controls the state.
Skip
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Re: Should there be absolute separation of church and state?

Post by Skip »

Not having an official church religion doesn't get the US government and christianity out of each other's beds and pockets.
Any amount given to your church constitutes a charitable donation in the eyes of the IRS,
http://finance.zacks.com/much-tithe-can ... -3077.html
The Church and related Catholic charities and schools have collected more than $1.6 billion since 2012 in U.S.
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/201 ... -contract/
When people donate to religious groups, it's tax-deductible. Churches don't pay property taxes on their land or buildings. When they buy stuff, they don't pay sales taxes. When they sell stuff at a profit, they don't pay capital gains tax. If they spend less than they take in, they don't pay corporate income taxes.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/won ... ec6bfc2f29
Through taxpayer-funded voucher programs and tax deductions, public funds are used for the purpose of religious indoctrination of children.
https://www.secular.org/issues/vouchers
Funding for religious organizations, also called church grants, are widely available from both the private sector and the federal government.
http://government-grants.us/church-grants/
And that's before they even get involved in elections!
bobevenson
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Re: Should there be absolute separation of church and state?

Post by bobevenson »

Hobbes' Choice wrote:
bobevenson wrote:
Hobbes' Choice wrote:One Nation under god...
In god we trust.
Who the fuck are you guys kidding?
That's got nothing to do with churches like your stupid Church of England, you wanker!
In the UK we control the church. In the USA the church controls the state.
Bullshit!!! Your fucking socialist government controls the Church of England, but in the USA, there is no government-sponsored church!!!
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Immanuel Can
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Re: Should there be absolute separation of church and state?

Post by Immanuel Can »

Ideally, yes.

In practice, impossible.
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Immanuel Can
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Re: Should there be absolute separation of church and state?

Post by Immanuel Can »

Hobbes' Choice wrote: In the UK we control the church. In the USA the church controls the state.
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There's a "the Church" in England.

There's none in the US.
bobevenson
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Re: Should there be absolute separation of church and state?

Post by bobevenson »

Immanuel Can wrote:Ideally, yes. In practice, impossible.
Tell that to the AEP.
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Immanuel Can
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Re: Should there be absolute separation of church and state?

Post by Immanuel Can »

bobevenson wrote:
Immanuel Can wrote:Ideally, yes. In practice, impossible.
Tell that to the AEP.
Actually, as an observer, I find any talk of a monolithic American "national church" quite absurd, in light of the European experience of the union of politics and religion.

Nothing remotely comparable has ever existed in America, and I would say that anyone who's afraid of such coming to exist in the future is just being very, very silly. The means for it simply do not exist. Since frontier days, rounding up Americans religiously has been like herding cats; tell them to follow any particular creed, and they'll hive off and make a new one. It's the land of do-it-yourself religion, really.
bobevenson
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Re: Should there be absolute separation of church and state?

Post by bobevenson »

Unfortunately, religions in America are responsible for its blue laws, which take dead aim at liberty and personal freedom.
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Vendetta
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Re: Should there be absolute separation of church and state?

Post by Vendetta »

Immanuel Can wrote:
bobevenson wrote:
Immanuel Can wrote:Ideally, yes. In practice, impossible.
Tell that to the AEP.
Actually, as an observer, I find any talk of a monolithic American "national church" quite absurd, in light of the European experience of the union of politics and religion.

Nothing remotely comparable has ever existed in America, and I would say that anyone who's afraid of such coming to exist in the future is just being very, very silly. The means for it simply do not exist. Since frontier days, rounding up Americans religiously has been like herding cats; tell them to follow any particular creed, and they'll hive off and make a new one. It's the land of do-it-yourself religion, really.
Exactly. The nature of Americans in terms of religion does not allow for it. Concern in this case is unnecessary as it will not happen.
bobevenson
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Re: Should there be absolute separation of church and state?

Post by bobevenson »

The U.S. government doesn't go far enough, it should take "In God We Trust" off U.S. currency, and eliminate the Bible or any other religious document at swearing-in ceremonies!
osgart
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Re: Should there be absolute separation of church and state?

Post by osgart »

in atheism we trust?

one nation under secularity?

what's the new mantra or creed?

a higher power than humans is needed?

in humanism we trust?

or how about don't trust at all?

God got us this far , I think meddling with it serves no purpose. all God means anyway is higher authority than us all.
Skip
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Re: Should there be absolute separation of church and state?

Post by Skip »

It doesn't have to be 'monolithic' or an official state religion in order to meddle in the business of government.
Catholic, Anglican, Methodist and Baptist churches all exert political influence; all have to be wooed by candidates
and placated by legislators. The Christian political bloc have prevented freedom of education, marriage, birth control
and end-of-life care for a century, and keep on making rational laws difficult to pass, harder to fund and impossible to enforce...
while sucking up quite a lot of public money.
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