~ Why I Like Single Payer Healthcare for the United States of America ~

[henry quirk]

Trajk,

You're wasting your time (which is okay if you know you're wasting your time).

This place is filthy-foul with communitarian and technocratic types who very much want you to give so they can take. Heaven forbid you should bring up pesky little realities like you having your own notions of how to discharge yourself in the world. Nope, if you aren't serving the community, if you aren't selfless, if you aren't willing to put yourself in the poorhouse so schmucks can eat on your dime, then you're a monster, and deserve only criticism.

[Bill Wiltrack]

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Lot of words...Lot of bullshit.


Focus & listen to me:

If your wife is a public school teacher she is insured through a for-profit group insurer. Period.


You are ignorant & lazy if you don't know this or have not taken the time to research the facts before you spew.



Just because you are displaying ignorance & laziness doesn't mean other people operate in that way - ESPECIALLY in our jobs.







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[Hobbes' Choice]

Someone is living in an imaginary world where people do things without ever expecting a "Thank You", or some kind of acknowledgement that their energy wasn't wasted in helping someone else.
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Yeah but you are one of the arseholes I was talking about.
You live for yourself and you will die lonely and desperate.
Now crawl back under you rock from whence you came!

I do live for myself. How can I live for anyone else if I don't think about myself first? I'm married and been married for over 20 years, and have never been divorced, have 3 kids that are all honor roll students, worked at the same place for 20 years, and have clients that I've been servicing for that long. Can you say the same? If not, then maybe it is you that has the wrong outlook on life and the root of what makes relationships work..

Maybe there is still time for you to get a life.

[Arising_uk]

...
Competition has worked long before humans even came on the scene. As a matter of fact, humans evolved and became successful through competing for resources with other homo species. ...

But cooperation came on the scene with human beings and enabled them to become more successful than the other competing animals?

Competition has always been the catalyst for innovation. In this sense, the free market - free from government intervention and monopolies - is the most progressive economic system as it promotes innovation. Socialism kills innovation and incentive. ...

And yet is was socialism that did pretty much all the space firsts, albeit with the know-how of fascism?

Socialism will need to control the population to the point of breeding humans and raising them by the state in order to achieve equal outcomes for all.

It's not about equal outcomes but equality of opportunity.

[Arising_uk]

... Now that school choice has been introduced, parents have a choice about which school to send their kids, which creates competition between schools to do better and attract more students. As I said before, competition would be part of a truly progressive stance as it promotes innovation and new ideas.

I don't necessarily disagree but what often happens is that the private schools cherry-pick students whilst leaving the state system to deal with the more disadvantaged.

[Wyman]

...
Competition has worked long before humans even came on the scene. As a matter of fact, humans evolved and became successful through competing for resources with other homo species. ...

But cooperation came on the scene with human beings and enabled them to become more successful than the other competing animals?

Competition has always been the catalyst for innovation. In this sense, the free market - free from government intervention and monopolies - is the most progressive economic system as it promotes innovation. Socialism kills innovation and incentive. ...

And yet is was socialism that did pretty much all the space firsts, albeit with the know-how of fascism?

Socialism will need to control the population to the point of breeding humans and raising them by the state in order to achieve equal outcomes for all.

It's not about equal outcomes but equality of opportunity.

Maybe cooperation works better on small scales? If you know the people you cooperate with, you are more likely to 1) care and 2) know whether they have their shit together or are free-loaders. That latter don't last long in small groups where all is out in the daylight. What is the reference to socialism and space? If it's a reference to the USSR, I wouldn't hold that up as a paradigm of cooperation, considering they had to exterminate or imprison tens of millions to get them to do what the government wanted of them.

The problem with equality of opportunity lies in how we determine whether opportunities are equal or not. Generally, the issue is determined by measuring the outcomes and effects of 'the system.' Thus, it is equality of outcome through the back door.

[henry quirk]

"(it) was socialism that did pretty much all the space firsts"

Yep, a socialist government, in competition with a largely capitalistic nation, got to space first. They made it off the block first, not for national pride, not as an example of the virtues of socialism, but solely to show up the capitalist pigs, and they did so not by way of communal cooperation, but through the acquisition and direction of resource, even as folks starved.

Socialism, contrary to human nature as it is, is manure (of the finest quality, of course).

And what is human nature (in this context)? To compete...to cooperate to compete better...to force the other guy to do what you want. In the last example (forcing the other guy) the 'socialists' have shown themselves to be exemplary (and not really 'social' at all).

[Arising_uk]

... What is the reference to socialism and space? If it's a reference to the USSR, I wouldn't hold that up as a paradigm of cooperation, considering they had to exterminate or imprison tens of millions to get them to do what the government wanted of them. ...

I should have said communism or stalinism but I wasn't really holding it up as a paragon of cooperation but just as an example of a system that wasn't free-market, etc actually innovating and being inventive, also Nazism did most of the heavy lifting in this respect as well.

The problem with equality of opportunity lies in how we determine whether opportunities are equal or not. Generally, the issue is determined by measuring the outcomes and effects of 'the system.' Thus, it is equality of outcome through the back door.

Don't disagree but either system will be taking the measure and I don't think it necessarily means that one has to level down, just see if the more disadvantaged are getting the chance to level up, which currently in my society is reversing compared to what it was a few decades ago.

[Arising_uk]

I tend to think that the competition v cooperation stance is like the nature v nurture argument where the reality is both are needed for success.

[Bill Wiltrack]

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Yes. The dance of the eternal yin/yang. Both approaches work well together & together, complement each other.






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....................... I thank all who have participated in this timely, important, politically philosophical debate.








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[bobevenson]

Under AEP political theory, there can be no special government health benefits for one citizen versus another. However, a government health account could be set up for every citizen with an annual government contribution. Any health expenses could be directly paid from that account. It would be an expensive, but proper government health care system for rich and poor alike.

[Bill Wiltrack]

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....This is how I picture you, in your mom's basement, drummin-up new theories on how AEP will SAVE THE WORLD!






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[bobevenson]

That's because you're an ignorant slob with no ideas of your own.

[Trajk Logik]

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Lot of words...Lot of bullshit.


Focus & listen to me:

If your wife is a public school teacher she is insured through a for-profit group insurer. Period.


You are ignorant & lazy if you don't know this or have not taken the time to research the facts before you spew.



Just because you are displaying ignorance & laziness doesn't mean other people operate in that way - ESPECIALLY in our jobs.







.

Why would you ask me to listen to you? I can't hear you, but I can read what you've typed.

I never said that she wasn't insured by a for-profit group insurer. What I said, if you read my post and the text didn't go in one eye and out the other, is that the insurer has their profits limited. Maybe if you took the time to actually read what I wrote, it wouldn't look like a lot of words and a lot of bullshit to you. You also neglected to address the rest of my post.

I noticed that your posts are mostly empty space. Is that a reflection of what's between your ears?

[Trajk Logik]

... Now that school choice has been introduced, parents have a choice about which school to send their kids, which creates competition between schools to do better and attract more students. As I said before, competition would be part of a truly progressive stance as it promotes innovation and new ideas.

I don't necessarily disagree but what often happens is that the private schools cherry-pick students whilst leaving the state system to deal with the more disadvantaged.

Have you ever heard of magnet schools and charter schools, both of which are publicly funded (charter schools are privately funded and partially funded by tax dollars). These types of schools developed as a direct result of citizens wanting more choice in what kinds of schools they can send their kids to. This has encouraged innovation in our public school system in order to attract more of the kinds of families that actually care about their kids education. Schools are trying to attract those kids with good grades that make them look good in the end.