Noam Chomsky and Our Collective Responsibility

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Dubious
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Re: Noam Chomsky and Our Collective Responsibility

Post by Dubious »

vegetariantaxidermy wrote:
Dubious wrote:
Arising_uk wrote:You ignore that Britain was in no condition to fight a war with Germany in Europe and had only just started to recover from the last one. There's a fair argument that Chamberlain managed to give us the breathing space to at least start to rearm and remilitarize for defense at least.
The Brits were already re-militarizing before Chamberlain came to Munich. They must have felt ready for a conflict since it was the Brits who declared war on Germany and not the other way around. They were never threatened by Hitler. In this case, it was Churchill who was the war monger.
Churchill always was a warmongering, elitist bastard. I don't know why he's so revered.
Beats me as well. In both World Wars Churchill had to cajole the Americans to enter the war against Germany not realizing that if you have to ask another country to help save your empire it won't be long before you lose it. Maybe a little less booze would have made the obvious clear to him.
Gary Childress
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Re: Noam Chomsky and Our Collective Responsibility

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Melchior wrote:It was written in early 1942. The author criticizes the 'Western democracies' for (among other things) waiting too long to confront Hitler, in hopes that he could be appeased, or that defensive measures would protect them. Both were mistakes. Germany's military power only grew stronger the longer they waited. Just read it!
Good grief! This is news to you? The book is from 1942. I'm sure most of us know what happened in the Second World War. The subject matter, all the blunders and missed opportunities on the part of both sides, has been beaten to death in analysis and debate for over 70 years now. Does this book tell us anything we don't already know?

I mean, while we're at it should we read The Influence of Sea Power Upon History, 1660–1783 by Alfred Mahan? His philosophy on the importance of naval power apparently set off the international naval arms race that preceded the First World War. I'm sure it's still required reading for cadets at Annapolis. What about von Clausewitz, "War is merely the continuation of policy by other means"? Sun Tzu and company? I have the Art of War somewhere on my shelf. I could blow the dust off and give it another read.

I'm sure this is crazy and foolish but what about peace? Do you happen to know of any good books that profess peaceful coexistence, mutual cooperation among nations and the merits of solving differences through diplomacy? Or should we all just go straight for each other's jugular vein, unrelentingly at the earliest opportunity? Is it unrealistic to want to put the horrors of the 20th Century behind us? Must we remember "Pearl Harbor", the Munich Agreement or the "Killing Fields" for the rest of eternity? And therefore waste trillions on machines that have no other purpose than to bring wholesale death and destruction upon other nations? The US was able to rebuild Europe after WW2 because our country was spared the enormous destruction that fell on Europe due to the fact that we were far removed from the range of the weapons of the Axis powers. There is no longer any safety in distance. Our cities are just as much in range of destruction as any other nation's. So who is going to be able to rebuild the world after WW3?

The world is not a safe place. It will NEVER be a perfectly safe place, no matter how large and threatening we make our bombs or no matter how thoroughly we turn our country and the world into a national security state. All the pre-emptive attacks and military spending in the world is not going to make us safe. The only thing that can come even close to giving us some safety is to NOT run around the world and behave like complete dicks toward every other country. It's a very simple concept. Strong nations seem to only know how to issue ultimatums. Weak nations learn to get along. I'm tired of my country being the most hated nation on Earth.
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Arising_uk
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Re: Noam Chomsky and Our Collective Responsibility

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Melchior wrote:"The collective enthusiasm of the French for warfare lasted well into the first few months of World War One..."
Not heard of Verdun then?
How many Frenchmen does it take to defend Paris?
No-one knows, its never been done
And they could have defended it with what?
Yeah, and who saved Europe's ass? ...
You and 20 million Soviets.
If you recall, we were neutral until December 7, 1941. ...
And as such 'god' bless the Eastern Front as if they'd have had the Sixth Army we'd still probably be on the beaches.
Even then, it was 'Europe first'. There was quite a bit of sentiment in the USA against getting involved. 'Isolationism' it was called by those who opposed it.
Well you were making a nice living selling to the Nazis.
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Arising_uk
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Re: Noam Chomsky and Our Collective Responsibility

Post by Arising_uk »

Gary Childress wrote:... I'm tired of my country being the most hated nation on Earth.
You're not but if you are it just goes along with being the biggest, strongest and most prosperous.
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Arising_uk
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Re: Noam Chomsky and Our Collective Responsibility

Post by Arising_uk »

Dubious wrote:The Brits were already re-militarizing before Chamberlain came to Munich. ...
Well we had history to learn from but we were still hardly in much of a position to fight, look what happened to the BEF.
They must have felt ready for a conflict since it was the Brits who declared war on Germany and not the other way around. ...
Not really as they were still tired from the first, its why Chamberlain tried so hard to avoid it and capitulated over Czechoslovakia.
They were never threatened by Hitler. ...
Not the point really as it was Empire at the time and we had treaties to defend Poland.
In this case, it was Churchill who was the war monger.
It was Chamberlain who declared war.

"To jaw-jaw is always better than to war-war" - Churchill
Last edited by Arising_uk on Thu May 19, 2016 10:43 am, edited 1 time in total.
Melchior
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Re: Noam Chomsky and Our Collective Responsibility

Post by Melchior »

Gary Childress wrote:
Melchior wrote:It was written in early 1942. The author criticizes the 'Western democracies' for (among other things) waiting too long to confront Hitler, in hopes that he could be appeased, or that defensive measures would protect them. Both were mistakes. Germany's military power only grew stronger the longer they waited. Just read it!
Good grief! This is news to you? The book is from 1942. I'm sure most of us know what happened in the Second World War. The subject matter, all the blunders and missed opportunities on the part of both sides, has been beaten to death in analysis and debate for over 70 years now. Does this book tell us anything we don't already know?
Yes.
Science Fan
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Re: Noam Chomsky and Our Collective Responsibility

Post by Science Fan »

Why the support of Chomsky, a man who has spoken in support of mass genocide? He is not an expert on any topic he writes publicly about. He is not an expert on politics, the law, history, forensics, economics, or sociology. He is a linguist. The reason he is popular is because he is a self-hating Jew. So, when he claims that Holocaust-deniers are not anti-Semitic, then his fans can claim, "since a Jew said it, it must be true." If he wasn't a self-hating Jew, no one would have paid attention to any of his political ramblings.
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vegetariantaxidermy
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Re: Noam Chomsky and Our Collective Responsibility

Post by vegetariantaxidermy »

Perhaps there are people who simply like him, even if they disagree with him sometimes. Do you think everyone has to hate him (or profess to)? Do you think he has a right to his opinions? 'Self-hating Jew'? Such a convenient label for anyone who veers from what you believe to be 'the collective opinion'. He thinks for himself. When did that become a crime? What do you want him to think?
Oh. And please post links to his comments that you refer to. The one where he supports genocide would be a good start (but wouldn't that be the pot calling the kettle black?) I would like to know if he is really as evil as you say, or if you are just full of lying crap as usual.
Hmm. He seems to be anti-war. Nearly imprisoned for opposing the Vietnam war. He can't be all bad.
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Re: Noam Chomsky and Our Collective Responsibility

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No, Chomsky is an advocate for anti-Semitism. That's about all he does. But, of course Veggie would like Chomsky, since Veggie is a hard-core politically-correct leftist, just like Chomsky. Chomsky has come out against freedom of speech on college campuses as he is in favor of political-correctness campaigns. For that reason alone, he is not much of an intellectual. Basically, Chomsky has denied history regarding atrocities committed by communists and socialists, he sides with vulgar anti-Semites, he endorses some truly bizarre and childish statements that anyone with half a brain has to seriously question.

As far as his economics claims, can anyone name a single economic model he came up with, and the factual basis for his model? I doubt it. He is no expert on economics and has offered not one single significant thought to the entire discipline. He simply rehashes history denial, as he can't grasp the fact that the USSR and its socialist satellites collapsed.
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vegetariantaxidermy
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Re: Noam Chomsky and Our Collective Responsibility

Post by vegetariantaxidermy »

Science Fan wrote: Fri Jun 23, 2017 4:15 pm No, Chomsky is an advocate for anti-Semitism. That's about all he does. But, of course Veggie would like Chomsky, since Veggie is a hard-core politically-correct leftist, just like Chomsky. Chomsky has come out against freedom of speech on college campuses as he is in favor of political-correctness campaigns. For that reason alone, he is not much of an intellectual. Basically, Chomsky has denied history regarding atrocities committed by communists and socialists, he sides with vulgar anti-Semites, he endorses some truly bizarre and childish statements that anyone with half a brain has to seriously question.

As far as his economics claims, can anyone name a single economic model he came up with, and the factual basis for his model? I doubt it. He is no expert on economics and has offered not one single significant thought to the entire discipline. He simply rehashes history denial, as he can't grasp the fact that the USSR and its socialist satellites collapsed.
:lol: Wow. You certainly love your fallacies. Do you keep the list by your laptop? You have three in one sentence there. The 'poisoning of the well', the ad hominem, and the false assumption. I think there's another one in there too. The fallacy of 'guilt by association'. 'You don't hate x, therefore you must agree with everything x says'.
I'm the opposite of PC. You are the most PC person on here.
Did I say I like Chomsky? He's not someone I put a lot of effort into dissecting every word he utters, but I certainly don't ask everyone I encounter 'umm, do you by any chance like Noam Chomsky?' and base my opinion of that person on the answer they give (in the unlikely event that they would have even heard of him). I said he seems to be anti-war, which is rare, so he can't be all bad. Btw, a dirty 'debater' like you who has no integrity isn't likely to be trusted to say anything truthful. Ever heard 'the boy who cried wolf'?
Science Fan
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Re: Noam Chomsky and Our Collective Responsibility

Post by Science Fan »

Nope. I made no fallacies in my argument. Accurately assessing a person's fault is not a fallacy. That's simply more of your political correctness, Veggie. Think about it? Oh, that's right, you can't think beyond your politically-correct straight-jacket.
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Re: Noam Chomsky and Our Collective Responsibility

Post by Science Fan »

Veggie, you were defending Chomsky, a man who has lied about the Cambodian genocide, a man who claims that people who deny the Holocaust are not anti-Semitic, a man who claims that the USSR stopped mass murdering people while the USSR was still mass murdering people, a man who demands that freedom of speech be banned on college campuses. You have been supporting this imbecile, not me. Unlike you, I am for freedom of speech and have zero respect for anyone who would ban free speech, especially on a college campus where it most definitely belongs.
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vegetariantaxidermy
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Re: Noam Chomsky and Our Collective Responsibility

Post by vegetariantaxidermy »

As a matter of fact your arguments are composed almost entirely of fallacies, especially when you are losing (which is most of the time). Do you even know what PC is? Oh, hang on, you are American. The concept is far to subtle for them, poor things.
Science Fan
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Re: Noam Chomsky and Our Collective Responsibility

Post by Science Fan »

I have most definitely not lost any argument to you, Veggie. Your arguments are not just fallacies, but outright delusions. Like your claim that all Americans are racist warmongers. Your comment here in support of Chomsky was originally that he must be a good guy if fascists hate him. Now, you think that was a rational comment? You don't see the fallacy in that argument? Then, you came back here and defended him again, while later claiming you don't know much about him. Well, if you don't know much about him, then you think it's rational of you to be defending him?

You are most definitely not someone with anything beyond barely average intelligence.

Your remarks here on this specific post are all based on an irrational hatred. And you think you are actually winning debates?
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Re: Noam Chomsky and Our Collective Responsibility

Post by Science Fan »

Oh, yeah, Veggie, I also forgot your science-denial in the name of political correctness. When I stated that humans are not naturally monogamous, which is a verifiable, fact of human biology, you claimed otherwise. That was a perfect example of your political correctness at work. You think it's politically correct that people be naturally monogamous, so you deny the actual science that tells us otherwise. It was at that point, that I knew you were a politically-correct leftist, and nothing you have argued since then has proved me wrong.
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