Socialism: What Has Gone Wrong?

How should society be organised, if at all?

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Impenitent
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Re: Socialism: What Has Gone Wrong?

Post by Impenitent » Fri Sep 22, 2017 11:10 pm

Immanuel Can wrote:
Fri Sep 22, 2017 12:11 pm
Impenitent wrote:
Fri Sep 22, 2017 2:32 am
so many speakers of Aramaic actually wrote what was said

-Imp
"So many" is "four"? :shock:
try again (why don't you quote Nietzsche - there is no original text)

-Imp

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Immanuel Can
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Re: Socialism: What Has Gone Wrong?

Post by Immanuel Can » Sat Sep 23, 2017 5:53 pm

Impenitent wrote:
Fri Sep 22, 2017 11:10 pm
try again (why don't you quote Nietzsche - there is no original text)

-Imp
What he says is not exactly true. What is true is that we do not possess the original monographs. But we do possess more subsequent copies, from different sources, than of any other historical document of the period. And unlike human speech, written speech does not "morph" on the page. What a document says in the first century is what it will say in the 21st, so long as it remains.

This plethora of copies we have is actually a huge strength. By triangulating them, from different sources, we can quickly eliminate inconsistencies of copying, wherever such may have happened occur, and reduce to a highly trustworthy sense of the original monographs.

But this is a technical discussion, and you'd be better to read up on it than to debate it on this forum. Try "The Scripture in Translation," by Mercereau, if you're interested.

bobevenson
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Re: Socialism: What Has Gone Wrong?

Post by bobevenson » Sat Sep 23, 2017 6:29 pm

Socialism: what has gone wrong? Too many people not capable of being scammed.

Impenitent
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Re: Socialism: What Has Gone Wrong?

Post by Impenitent » Sat Sep 23, 2017 6:54 pm

Immanuel Can wrote:
Sat Sep 23, 2017 5:53 pm
Impenitent wrote:
Fri Sep 22, 2017 11:10 pm
try again (why don't you quote Nietzsche - there is no original text)

-Imp
What he says is not exactly true. What is true is that we do not possess the original monographs.
which is exactly what he said.

finis.

-Imp

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Hobbes' Choice
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Re: Socialism: What Has Gone Wrong?

Post by Hobbes' Choice » Sun Sep 24, 2017 7:01 pm

marjoram_blues wrote:
Fri Sep 22, 2017 12:17 pm
Hobbes' Choice wrote:
Thu Sep 21, 2017 8:54 pm
marjoram_blues wrote:
Wed Sep 20, 2017 11:47 pm


What has gone wrong?
Socialist politicians need to call out the lies (historic and current ) and be effective in interviews.
I was half listening to a ch4 news debate when twice a young female calmly challenged opposition by simply saying 'That is not correct', followed by succinct reasons. So very heartening.
What has gone wrong is that the BBC, ITV, and most other networks are bing controlled by established interests.
C4 News is great - but you won't see much on the other channels, and C4 also plays the establishment card on most occasions.
Indeed. And hopefully the likes of Jon Snow will keep the spotlight on all parties involved.
His reporting and personal concern re the Grenfell tower fire and its victims - exceptional.
Just look at his wiki page - look at his privileged background and marvel at his socks and ties.
The likes of Mr. Snow are as rare as hens teeth.

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Harbal
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Re: Socialism: What Has Gone Wrong?

Post by Harbal » Sun Sep 24, 2017 7:24 pm

Hobbes' Choice wrote:
Sun Sep 24, 2017 7:01 pm

The likes of Mr. Snow are as rare as hens teeth.
Not quite. We know there is at least one Mr. Snow.

marjoram_blues
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Re: Socialism: What Has Gone Wrong?

Post by marjoram_blues » Sun Sep 24, 2017 7:44 pm

Jon Snow is unique. Please read or watch his ' The Best and Worst of Times' - the MacTaggart Lecture at Edinburgh TV Festival 2017. Click on his blog at channel4.com/news 23rd August.
I guarantee you will love it and him. So brilliant.

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Hobbes' Choice
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Re: Socialism: What Has Gone Wrong?

Post by Hobbes' Choice » Sun Sep 24, 2017 7:46 pm

Harbal wrote:
Sun Sep 24, 2017 7:24 pm
Hobbes' Choice wrote:
Sun Sep 24, 2017 7:01 pm

The likes of Mr. Snow are as rare as hens teeth.
Not quite. We know there is at least one Mr. Snow.
I said "the likes of".

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Hobbes' Choice
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Re: Socialism: What Has Gone Wrong?

Post by Hobbes' Choice » Sun Sep 24, 2017 7:49 pm

marjoram_blues wrote:
Sun Sep 24, 2017 7:44 pm
Jon Snow is unique. Please read or watch his ' The Best and Worst of Times' - the MacTaggart Lecture at Edinburgh TV Festival 2017. Click on his blog at channel4.com/news 23rd August.
I guarantee you will love it and him. So brilliant.
THis?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_1RLH8INSeM
I watch soon.

marjoram_blues
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Re: Socialism: What Has Gone Wrong?

Post by marjoram_blues » Sun Sep 24, 2017 7:52 pm

Hobbes' Choice wrote:
Sun Sep 24, 2017 7:49 pm
marjoram_blues wrote:
Sun Sep 24, 2017 7:44 pm
Jon Snow is unique. Please read or watch his ' The Best and Worst of Times' - the MacTaggart Lecture at Edinburgh TV Festival 2017. Click on his blog at channel4.com/news 23rd August.
I guarantee you will love it and him. So brilliant.
THis?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_1RLH8INSeM
I watch soon.
Yes. But you can also take your time and read the full transcript at CH4 news site.

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Harbal
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Re: Socialism: What Has Gone Wrong?

Post by Harbal » Sun Sep 24, 2017 7:53 pm

Hobbes' Choice wrote:
Sun Sep 24, 2017 7:46 pm
Harbal wrote:
Sun Sep 24, 2017 7:24 pm
Hobbes' Choice wrote:
Sun Sep 24, 2017 7:01 pm

The likes of Mr. Snow are as rare as hens teeth.
Not quite. We know there is at least one Mr. Snow.
I said "the likes of".
Well you can't get much more like Mr. Snow than Mr. Snow. can you?

marjoram_blues
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Re: Socialism: What Has Gone Wrong?

Post by marjoram_blues » Sun Sep 24, 2017 7:54 pm

Harbal wrote:
Sun Sep 24, 2017 7:53 pm
Hobbes' Choice wrote:
Sun Sep 24, 2017 7:46 pm
Harbal wrote:
Sun Sep 24, 2017 7:24 pm


Not quite. We know there is at least one Mr. Snow.
I said "the likes of".
Well you can't get much more like Mr. Snow than Mr. Snow. can you?
He does speak of his namesake at the beginning. It's funny. You'll like it.

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Gary Childress
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Re: ain't no such thing as 'free'

Post by Gary Childress » Wed Oct 11, 2017 10:15 am

henry quirk wrote:
Thu Sep 21, 2017 2:37 pm
Somebody pays for all of that...not one bit of any of it is 'free'.
That is undeniably true, nothing is "free" (or produced out of thin air). Every good and service comes from the work of someone. Socialism is supposed to be about just, equitable and/or fair distribution of what is produced and also about rational decision making. From what I can tell, those are the basic premises of thinkers who we often call or have been called "socialist".

"Socialism" seems to have all the right motives and intentions, but many people (mostly white Americans) seem to be hostile to the idea for what are probably obvious reasons. I mean, justice probably scares me as much as anyone else who lives in a society that basically flourishes off the perpetuation of injustice. But it seems like establishing justice is something that ought to be done (by the very definition of "justice").

Walker
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Re: ain't no such thing as 'free'

Post by Walker » Wed Oct 11, 2017 12:57 pm

Gary Childress wrote:
Wed Oct 11, 2017 10:15 am
henry quirk wrote:
Thu Sep 21, 2017 2:37 pm
Somebody pays for all of that...not one bit of any of it is 'free'.
That is undeniably true, nothing is "free" (or produced out of thin air). Every good and service comes from the work of someone. Socialism is supposed to be about just, equitable and/or fair distribution of what is produced and also about rational decision making. From what I can tell, those are the basic premises of thinkers who we often call or have been called "socialist".

"Socialism" seems to have all the right motives and intentions, but many people (mostly white Americans) seem to be hostile to the idea for what are probably obvious reasons. I mean, justice probably scares me as much as anyone else who lives in a society that basically flourishes off the perpetuation of injustice. But it seems like establishing justice is something that ought to be done (by the very definition of "justice").
Gary Childress wrote:Socialism is supposed to be about just, equitable and/or fair distribution of what is produced and also about rational decision making.
The same principle applies to capitalism.

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henry quirk
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Post by henry quirk » Wed Oct 11, 2017 3:19 pm

"Socialism is supposed to be about just, equitable and/or fair distribution of what is produced and also about rational decision making."

Seems to me, the above translates into 'profit or benefit should go to all equally instead of the lion's share goin' to the one taking the on-going risk, and the suffering of all should be borne by a few'.

That's a fine deal for a lot of folks, but not so much for 'me'.

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