What creates inflation?

How should society be organised, if at all?

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Lacewing
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Re: What creates inflation?

Post by Lacewing »

So much is based on the stories we tell ourselves -- stories we get locked into... and become dependent on.

For example, Bob continuously and fantastically demonstrates how humans can instantly, and without responsibility or consistency, reimagine reality and truth in order to preserve and serve themselves. Although his attempts are so obvious and clunky that most people would be embarrassed to do and say such things in public -- his delusional prophet status then raises him (in his own mind) above the cesspool of his own creations. He is, both, master and slave to his convoluted creations. He can serve as a warning to us all... just not in the way he thinks he can.

Any of us can ask ourselves "What stories am I telling myself to create the deadlocked reality I experience?" And what stories do GROUPS of people tell themselves? And, most interesting of all to me: What can we experience without such stories obscuring all else?
Science Fan
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Re: What creates inflation?

Post by Science Fan »

For years psychologists have been puzzled about our ability to reason. The basic dogma was that we evolved a sense of reason in order to help us survive, and our ability to reason allowed us to survive by making more accurate assessments regarding physical reality itself. Yet, the reason why this is puzzling is because our ability to reason is flawed, in the sense we have numerous cognitive biases. How could our sense of reason have developed with such flaws if the purpose of our ability to reason was to be able to better assess physical reality? However, if our ability to reason evolved mainly to allow us to present arguments to other people regarding our positions, and to refute their arguments regarding the justifications for their political and social agenda, then those cognitive biases actually are useful, and everything falls into place. Humans are hardwired to engage in self-serving political debate, and not to accept reality, in the sense that a scientist is supposed to do. In fact, even in science, scientists often become offended when their theories are attacked, and it is a myth that scientists don't mind being proven wrong, because that advances science. That's why there is a saying in science that science progresses one death at a time --- one has to wait for the scientists who are wedded to outdated theories to die off before the younger scientists can successfully promote the ideas that have better factual support.

Expecting humans to be perfectly rational outside of subjects like science, mathematics, and logic, is unrealistic --- we aren't biologically wired that way. We are basically wired to support the political ideologies we cling to.
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Lacewing
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Re: What creates inflation?

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Science Fan wrote: Fri Jun 16, 2017 6:07 pm there is a saying in science that science progresses one death at a time --- one has to wait for the scientists who are wedded to outdated theories to die off before the younger scientists can successfully promote the ideas that have better factual support.
:lol: Love that!
Science Fan wrote: Fri Jun 16, 2017 6:07 pm We are basically wired to support the political ideologies we cling to.
I did a double-take on the sentence above, as I was sure I read "pathological ideologies". :)

So... yes... it appears that the human species in general operates in a certain way... but there ARE those who demonstrate that they can evolve beyond "themselves" and their ideas... so that potential might exist in all of us? How do we unlock it? Do we WANT to unlock it? Does the awareness simultaneously spring open when the convoluted stories blow up in our face?
Science Fan
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Re: What creates inflation?

Post by Science Fan »

It's difficult to say. I do like the success we have had in science, logic, and mathematics, so that does give me hope that our ability to reason can be objective, and not always used to endorse a biased political agenda. However, science is useful for uncovering facts about the world around us, and not so useful when it comes to making value judgments.

My guess is that as science uncovers a better understanding of how we think that we can use this information to establish social institutions and frameworks that will encourage people to be more objectively rational and less partisan in their judgments. I wish I had the answers, but I don't. The research on this topic --- how humans reason -- is actually very interesting though, I'll say that much. Although, it can be a little disheartening knowing that we are wired to be PR spokespersons as opposed to being wired for science and logic.
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Re: What creates inflation?

Post by Science Fan »

I think, I'm just going from memory, that it was Max Planck, who came up with that saying about science progressing one death at a time.
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vegetariantaxidermy
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Re: What creates inflation?

Post by vegetariantaxidermy »

''Expecting humans to be perfectly rational outside subjects like science, mathematics, and logic, is unrealistic --- we aren't biologically wired that way. We are basically wired to support the political ideologies we cling to.''
Oh really. I wonder if they checked the 'wiring' of every person on the planet. Unless this poster meant 'Americans' specifically as in 'we'.
Philosophy Explorer
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Re: What creates inflation?

Post by Philosophy Explorer »

vegetariantaxidermy wrote: Fri Jun 16, 2017 6:46 pm ''Expecting humans to be perfectly rational outside subjects like science, mathematics, and logic, is unrealistic --- we aren't biologically wired that way. We are basically wired to support the political ideologies we cling to.''
Oh really. I wonder if they checked the 'wiring' of every person on the planet. Unless this poster meant 'Americans' specifically as in 'we'.
I'm sure SF didn't mean that (he has intelligence).

PhilX
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vegetariantaxidermy
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Re: What creates inflation?

Post by vegetariantaxidermy »

Philosophy Explorer wrote: Fri Jun 16, 2017 11:21 pm
vegetariantaxidermy wrote: Fri Jun 16, 2017 6:46 pm ''Expecting humans to be perfectly rational outside subjects like science, mathematics, and logic, is unrealistic --- we aren't biologically wired that way. We are basically wired to support the political ideologies we cling to.''
Oh really. I wonder if they checked the 'wiring' of every person on the planet. Unless this poster meant 'Americans' specifically as in 'we'.
I'm sure SF didn't mean that (he has intelligence).

PhilX
I'm sure that's why he's here. All the gullible morons. If that's what you call 'intelligent' then good luck to you.
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Re: What creates inflation?

Post by Philosophy Explorer »

vegetariantaxidermy wrote: Fri Jun 16, 2017 11:23 pm
Philosophy Explorer wrote: Fri Jun 16, 2017 11:21 pm
vegetariantaxidermy wrote: Fri Jun 16, 2017 6:46 pm ''Expecting humans to be perfectly rational outside subjects like science, mathematics, and logic, is unrealistic --- we aren't biologically wired that way. We are basically wired to support the political ideologies we cling to.''
Oh really. I wonder if they checked the 'wiring' of every person on the planet. Unless this poster meant 'Americans' specifically as in 'we'.
I'm sure SF didn't mean that (he has intelligence).

PhilX
I'm sure that's why he's here. All the gullible morons. If that's what you call 'intelligent' then good luck to you.
I include you in that class.

What brings you to my thread at this late stage?

PhilX
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vegetariantaxidermy
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Re: What creates inflation?

Post by vegetariantaxidermy »

Philosophy Explorer wrote: Fri Jun 16, 2017 11:27 pm
vegetariantaxidermy wrote: Fri Jun 16, 2017 11:23 pm
Philosophy Explorer wrote: Fri Jun 16, 2017 11:21 pm

I'm sure SF didn't mean that (he has intelligence).

PhilX
I'm sure that's why he's here. All the gullible morons. If that's what you call 'intelligent' then good luck to you.
I include you in that class.

What brings you to my thread at this late stage?

PhilX
What 'class'? Those you consider intelligent? That wouldn't be a compliment from you. I respond to comments that I think need responding to. Do you have a problem with that?
Philosophy Explorer
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Re: What creates inflation?

Post by Philosophy Explorer »

vegetariantaxidermy wrote: Fri Jun 16, 2017 11:36 pm
Philosophy Explorer wrote: Fri Jun 16, 2017 11:27 pm
vegetariantaxidermy wrote: Fri Jun 16, 2017 11:23 pm
I'm sure that's why he's here. All the gullible morons. If that's what you call 'intelligent' then good luck to you.
I include you in that class.

What brings you to my thread at this late stage?

PhilX
What 'class'? Those you consider intelligent? That wouldn't be a compliment from you. I respond to comments that I think need responding to. Do you have a problem with that?
Think?

PhilX
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vegetariantaxidermy
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Re: What creates inflation?

Post by vegetariantaxidermy »

Philosophy Explorer wrote: Fri Jun 16, 2017 11:41 pm
vegetariantaxidermy wrote: Fri Jun 16, 2017 11:36 pm
Philosophy Explorer wrote: Fri Jun 16, 2017 11:27 pm

I include you in that class.

What brings you to my thread at this late stage?

PhilX
What 'class'? Those you consider intelligent? That wouldn't be a compliment from you. I respond to comments that I think need responding to. Do you have a problem with that?
Think?

PhilX
Yes. That thing that evolved humans do with their brain.
Philosophy Explorer
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Re: What creates inflation?

Post by Philosophy Explorer »

vegetariantaxidermy wrote: Fri Jun 16, 2017 11:46 pm
Philosophy Explorer wrote: Fri Jun 16, 2017 11:41 pm
vegetariantaxidermy wrote: Fri Jun 16, 2017 11:36 pm
What 'class'? Those you consider intelligent? That wouldn't be a compliment from you. I respond to comments that I think need responding to. Do you have a problem with that?
Think?

PhilX
Yes. That thing that evolved humans do with their brain.
You need practice.

PhilX
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Lacewing
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Re: What creates inflation?

Post by Lacewing »

bobevenson wrote: Thu Jun 15, 2017 9:45 pm Suspicions confirmed, you can't answer the question.
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Re: What creates inflation?

Post by Science Fan »

In looking at a comment addressed to vege, it appears that vege is denying the science I relied upon in an earlier comment. I don't read vege's comments directly, because I have vege blocked, but I can see vege's comments when another user references them.

I stand by the science I referenced, and if one steps back for a moment and looks at vege's reaction in denying the science, one can see that my claims are valid and actually explain vege's conduct. Since I came here, vege has personally insulted me over and over again, which is why I blocked vege. But, for whatever reason, however, vege identifies herself politically and ideologically with social groups, she has me in the enemy group. So, what does biological science tell us how vege will respond to any comment of mine that references evolutionary biology? Since she has me in the out-group, she will make an argument against me, even if that means denying the basic science I referenced. In fact, I'm willing to bet money that vege and Harbal and others who hate me, will often write comments against me, regardless of the actual merits regarding the content of my comments, merely because they are evolved social primates who behave in a predictable manner --- they will act with hostility towards me because they see me as belonging to the out-group. It's ironic that their very conduct provides support for my position.

Evolutionary biology, as I earlier referenced, tells us that we do not think rationally, but rather, our ability to reason evolved to provide justifications for our positions within social groups and also to undermine arguments by others. This is why Trump supporters come up with arguments that trivialize problems Trump faces, and why those who identify as anti-Trumpers will argue that the evidence against Trump is more damaging than it is.

Or, take an example among a well-known scientist, to see how powerful the evolutionary biology is on human nature. Neil deGrasse Tyson seems like a reasonable guy, and he is on public record stating scientists welcome evidence that proves them wrong, because they are happier getting closer to the truth. Note, that he says scientists personally act this way, not just that this is an ideal that scientists should strive for but fail to live up to. Richard Dawkins, Lawrence Krauss, Sam Harris, Carl Sagan, and many others have said the same thing. Why? Because they all identify as scientists, so evolutionary biology tells us that they will use their ability to reason to make themselves look better than they are.

The evidence tells us that there is a lot of scientific fraud currently taking place. We also have numerous historical examples of top scientists sticking to a debunked theory. Take the Nobel-prize winner in chemistry, Linus Pauling, and his claims regarding vitamin C? No matter how much evidence was presented to Pauling, he refused to believe that vitamin C was ineffective in fighting such things as cancer. Even when he was diagnosed with cancer, he claimed he would have gotten the cancer a lot earlier, but for the vitamin C he was taking like crazy.

So, even when scientists engage in behavior that is irrational, but perfectly predicted by evolutionary biology, shouldn't people at least be willing to accept that evolutionary biology may have something relevant to tell us about how humans actually think and why they make the arguments they do?
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