The Rise of a European and American 'New Right'

How should society be organised, if at all?

Moderators: AMod, iMod

User avatar
Arising_uk
Posts: 9088
Joined: Wed Oct 17, 2007 2:31 am

Re: The Rise of a European and American 'New Right'

Postby Arising_uk » Wed Feb 01, 2017 1:39 am

Gustav Bjornstrand wrote:...
This is why, in my case, and though I myself live now in a quite mixed society and have adapted to it, I can still easily understand that racial conflict in England and France, or Germany, and certainly the US, is a 'real thing'. ...
Except that the issue here in the UK is between religious culture and cultural customs and the current 'conflict' is currently between whites with respect to economics. Now I accept that in the US it may be different but it seems to me(could be wrong) that the conflict there has pretty much been because a certain type of the white male will never accept a black male as a 'real' American. Also bear in mind that in the UK 8 out of 10 of us are white so there is no real mixed society, just the rich white shitting on the poor white and using whatever minority that's around at the time to divert that fact, same old same old - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KSk-VKOTgQY
(although the original lyrics are a touch cruder :) )
Raygunomics - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O3iBmNqXC-s

User avatar
Gustav Bjornstrand
Posts: 1110
Joined: Thu Jul 18, 2013 2:25 pm

Re: The Rise of a European and American 'New Right'

Postby Gustav Bjornstrand » Wed Feb 01, 2017 2:44 pm

There is no particular reason why this is posted here. Just the delight of the piece I suppose. I found an old book buried in a used book store in Cali, Colombia (1871) with selections of English prose for English study. Ten thousand pesos or $3.25

This is one selection I thought particularly nice.

Image

Belinda
Posts: 458
Joined: Fri Aug 26, 2016 10:13 am

Re: The Rise of a European and American 'New Right'

Postby Belinda » Wed Feb 01, 2017 5:14 pm

You might also like the paintings of Karl Larsen

https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=karl+ ... oQ_AUIBigB

User avatar
Gustav Bjornstrand
Posts: 1110
Joined: Thu Jul 18, 2013 2:25 pm

Re: The Rise of a European and American 'New Right'

Postby Gustav Bjornstrand » Thu Feb 02, 2017 12:04 am

Nice work, by and large. I am more attracted to those with more painterly effect. It is hard for me to appreciate in the same way those that are more illustrative.

Image

Belinda
Posts: 458
Joined: Fri Aug 26, 2016 10:13 am

Re: The Rise of a European and American 'New Right'

Postby Belinda » Thu Feb 02, 2017 11:46 am

I can understand why you prefer the painterly. The illustrations are good as evidence that this lovely lifestyle in all its delicious details really did exist in long ago Sweden.

User avatar
Gustav Bjornstrand
Posts: 1110
Joined: Thu Jul 18, 2013 2:25 pm

Re: The Rise of a European and American 'New Right'

Postby Gustav Bjornstrand » Thu Feb 16, 2017 1:39 pm

AUK wrote:Except that the issue here in the UK is between religious culture and cultural customs and the current 'conflict' is currently between whites with respect to economics. Now I accept that in the US it may be different but it seems to me(could be wrong) that the conflict there has pretty much been because a certain type of the white male will never accept a black male as a 'real' American. Also bear in mind that in the UK 8 out of 10 of us are white so there is no real mixed society, just the rich white shitting on the poor white and using whatever minority that's around at the time to divert that fact, same old same old - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KSk-VKOTgQY (although the original lyrics are a touch cruder :) ) Raygunomics - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O3iBmNqXC-s

This view reminds me of a Chinese saying (from the I-Ching which I remember you once mentioned reading?): 'Looking through a crack in the door'. Looking through a crack one has a limited and partial view (I think the Hexagram was Contemplation, No. 20). The core of the conflict, if you were to ask me, would be defined fairly strictly in the fact that the US was and began as an Anglo-Saxon nation. All its institituions, its history, its mental and spiritual development, its structure --- everything --- is in essence a product of the Anglo-Saxon mind.

In my understanding, it is the Civil War which brought extreme change to those united states and through the terrible effect of a civil war. The costs were extreme in a social sense, and in many other senses. I see it as having set in motion enmities which do not come to an end. At least in some senses, which have to be carefully and judiciously described to avoid inaccurate statements, the manifestation of populism now, with President Trump and the bizarre, incomprehensible, even mysterious and murky tumult one notices, has links to this enmity and divisiveness which is part-and-parcel.

What sort of a nation is the US? What was it? What will it now become? To understand these issues and questions is not easy. But one must, IMO, understand postwar demographics and specifically the 1965 immigration laws which were *imposed* as it were during the civil rights years. These allowed for a radical shift in the demographic make-up. So, when once the population was 90% white and 10% black, now the nation is 68% white and declining with a far larger group of mixed or non-whites. This came about through conscious decision, and behind the decisions there is a political and social philosophy that can be discovered, understood, and talked about.

From a certain perspective the present is the only moment available to alter or to shift these trends. In any case, the present conflict is 'somatic' and also 'psychological' in that it has to do with the 'soul' of the country. In a blended society the 'soul' becomes a blended soul. But there is a will --- we have a hard time deciding if it is good or bad --- which desires to resist 'blending' and 'multicultural assimilation'. The conflicts are here, and it is very hard to talk about them because speech is controlled through 'politically correct' mental regimes.

To understand the US somewhat better, IMO, one has to understand a certain regional mind-set difference. On one end there is the Yankee northerner out of New England with a certain kind of mind and sense of self; and on the other a somewhat older (in the sense of more original) more southern centered (Virginia for example, where cam Washington and Jefferson) sort of person. In my view it is the Northerner who now dominates the arena. It is hard to speak about but the classic Social Justice Warrior of the American variety represents this northern type and attitude. And this 'type' is a type that emerged victorious after the Civil War and which brought an end to an older type.

There is a debate or a conflict in jurisprudence between a doctrine of Living Constitution interpretation and Originialism. Those that hold to Originalism are always conservative and they seek to interpret and apply the Constitution as it was written, based on the ideas and conventions of the men who wrote it. The Living Constitutionalists believe that it must be interpreted as a 'living' document and that the job of a jurisprudentialist (judge, lawyer) is to 'interpret' it into the present. Obviously, this will tend to produce rather radical departures, and these departurues are the radical doctrines which have fundamentally altered the social structure of the United States. The original vision of the Founders was of state-regions which oversaw their own affairs and lived according to their values. Naturally conservative, as people are generally speaking naturally conservative. Judicial activism, an urban movement, and also a Federal influence, determines that it can modify culture and regional habit with 'activist' edicts because, of course, it knows better and operates from an 'enlightened' perspective.

In essence, in my opinion, the conservative turn both in the US and world-wide --- strange, confusing, mysterious, problematic --- has roots in a resistance to a top-down imposition of value and represents common people asserting their own sense of value.
_______________________________

Dear Moderator. I noticed that you simply erased a thread that I began. With no explanation. No notification. It was a good thread and a very good topic. A necessary topic. I do not think you have very much of a philosophical mind, and I have to admit I doubt very much your sense of ethics and honor, but I would ask you to consider what are the ramifications of the chilling of speech. This is a particularly acute problem today, for obvious reasons. It seems to me that in a philosophical environment, and among philosophers who are not, really, mere crypto-idiots and hacks, that this should be understood. I am aware that no discourse, no explanation, no appeal will move you, and yet I felt it important to say this
.

GB,
Did you? How sweet.

I however thought your judgement in error and think you full of shit about your 'ethics' and 'morals' so I deleted your post.

AMod.

User avatar
Gustav Bjornstrand
Posts: 1110
Joined: Thu Jul 18, 2013 2:25 pm

Re: The Rise of a European and American 'New Right'

Postby Gustav Bjornstrand » Thu Feb 16, 2017 1:58 pm

Esteemed Belinda, did you have no comment at all on my last post directed to you on Jan. 30, 6:04 PM? Did you completely surrender the ground to a superior argument? ;-)

I have finished a great deal of necessary business and am ready to resume.

User avatar
Gustav Bjornstrand
Posts: 1110
Joined: Thu Jul 18, 2013 2:25 pm

Re: The Rise of a European and American 'New Right'

Postby Gustav Bjornstrand » Thu Feb 16, 2017 9:39 pm

Let me put it this way for you Amod: Your actions in regard to my posts have been unethical. Not only here but in other instances of which you are aware. You do what you do because there is no one to stop you. You overstep the proper and ethical bounds of moderation and become a censor of opinions that you personally do not like. And you will not admit it. To protect a principle, you violate principle.

Nothing I have said, or that I do, of that I think, or that I wish for anyone else, has been or is in any sense unethical. And this I can demonstrate using rational discourse.

What you do, though you say that you do not do it, is to allow your emotional reactions to get the better of your intellect. And this demonstrates, quite clearly, a general problem occuring now, in society, in letters, and in journalism. You do not care to make an ethical analysis of yourself, your motives, or the destructiveness in a forum environment of derailing potentially good subjects because of your own issues. Hard topics often yield the best conversations. And certain topics must be brought out into the open.

In addition to being unethical, your actions, and your attitude, is immoral. You pretend to defend a principle but you do not act from principle and violate many important ones.

You imagine that you are acting positively against a perceived wrong, but this is projection: you end up acting wrong and having no concern at all for your conduct.

There you have a strictly philosophical analysis of your action. :roll:

Londoner
Posts: 333
Joined: Sun Sep 11, 2016 8:47 am

Re: The Rise of a European and American 'New Right'

Postby Londoner » Fri Feb 17, 2017 10:15 am

Gustav Bjornstrand wrote:
In addition to being unethical, your actions, and your attitude, is immoral. You pretend to defend a principle but you do not act from principle and violate many important ones.

You imagine that you are acting positively against a perceived wrong, but this is projection: you end up acting wrong and having no concern at all for your conduct....


This is from somebody who won't admit there was anything wrong with the Holocaust.

Belinda
Posts: 458
Joined: Fri Aug 26, 2016 10:13 am

Re: The Rise of a European and American 'New Right'

Postby Belinda » Fri Feb 17, 2017 12:03 pm

Gustav Bjornstrand wrote:Esteemed Belinda, did you have no comment at all on my last post directed to you on Jan. 30, 6:04 PM? Did you completely surrender the ground to a superior argument? ;-)

I have finished a great deal of necessary business and am ready to resume.


Thank you for the invitation.

I am attached to the values of my ancestors who happen to be white northern Europeans. I guess the values are probably much the same as with most of your contestants here.

You are right that ancestral values matter. I happen to be liberal white northern European. The most important liberal white northern European value is inclusivity of all people plus the natural environment . White Northern Europeans are a lesser breed than humanity in general.

It follows that my ancestors are liberals before they are white northern Europeans.

What we have in common, Gustav you and I is that with the possible exception of China the world's ideologies have polarised into opposing camps of love and fear. As I asked you before, who do you serve?

User avatar
Gustav Bjornstrand
Posts: 1110
Joined: Thu Jul 18, 2013 2:25 pm

Re: The Rise of a European and American 'New Right'

Postby Gustav Bjornstrand » Fri Feb 17, 2017 2:22 pm

Glad to see you are still in the game, Londoner. I am less happy to see that you only have an argument with 'one moving part'. My (moral) position within this thread, and definitely in general, and certainly in regard to the ancient problem of the confict between Jewish tribal culture and European culture, is that the whole issue, down to unsavory details, needs to be exploded and all of it needs to be, as I say, 'put on the table for examination'.

Along those lines, and through an inadvertant recommendation from you, I got hold of and have mostly read Hilaire Belloc's 'The Jews' (I began a thread using one chapter from this interesting work that examined what Belloc considered to be the Gentile relationship to the problem and that which gives rise to antisemtism but our generous Moderator Maximo chose to delete it, God only knows why). I have read a great deal of material on Jewish questions over the years and I think I understand Jews and Judaism pretty well, and I see Belloc's essay as offering a very worthy perspective on the question.

I am quite sure that you have read no part of it because were you to have done so you would not have described it as you did. What I find especially interesting is that Belloc's book was published in 1923, before of course the events that unfolded just a few years later. His work, while not prophetic exactly since the 'Jewish Problem' had been increasing over the decades and was noticed by many, nevertheless pointed in the direrction of a social and cultural catastrophe which Belloc sincerely desired to avoid. That fore-warning I would describe as 'highly ethical'.

To read Belloc is to read a man who has a Jewish-critical position which is to be distinguished from two other poles: one is the pole which simply denies there is any problem but this pole is more complex than it seems. It is a pole which in a sense is 'blinded' or 'inhibited in vision' insofar as it is incapable of noticing anything in diaspora Judaism which it could describe as questionable or harmful to European culture. It desires (with emphasis on will and desire) to see the Jew as simply one of society's atoms, and one that simply has a non-common religious orientation. Belloc says that this attitude stems from European liberal traditions and outlook and I agree with him. I also think that it is likely the position, yet now advanced in time almost 100 years, which many today have.

(The other pole is of course classic antisemitism which is a sort of mythology of the Jew; a paranoid, exaggerated, intensely antagonistic position in regard to Jews. I won't touch on this because that position is the most well-known and common and most, generally speaking, have the critical skill to see that it is a mythology not a description of 'reality').

To describe that position (the one that places blinders over the eyes) is, as I say, more complex and difficult than it seems, and the chief reason is that it is a position that simply allows no discussion. It is a position that regards any discussion, any mention of a problem, as itself being The Problem. It is thus a position of a man who has put blinders over his eyes. Now, in my view this connects to an intellectual and philosophical problem of some moment. And that problem has to do with willed, internal, self-censorship and avoiding the essence of questions through avoiding, essentially, philosophical profundity. It is a position essentially of denial. It is also one with ties to forms of mind-control which, in my view, are common today.

The gist of it is that if you can manage to keep a person or people from thinking about a certain hot-topic problem by shaming the need or desire to do so, this shame-tool can be applied to many other things. As you are aware I notice that *emotionalism*, and emotional reasoning, is quite common and I have especially noticed it in most with whom I have conversed with in this thread. As I say it is tied into cultural and social trends and is not the creation of just one person. Finally, it is the political left which is the party of emotionalism and which uses the emotional tools in very unethical and, I also feel, dangerously immoral ways. All this I can describe and support.

Now, my approach is to avoid all emotionalism and all emotional tropes. I leave that to you and please let me know how it all turns out for you. I predict that it leads to dead-ends. In relation to the question of the Holocaust I take a very different stance. I see the Jewish problem, the problem of Jewish destiny, the problem of the Jewish Exile, as a unique and very strange issue that needs to be examined with care but also some intensity. The actual core of the problem is there, in the Exile. And to examine this issue leads to many different, and really more difficult, questions than you, it would seem, are able to fit in your little head. I do not mean at all to insult. Yet your head (your conceptual base) is very limited. Effectively you are completely ignorant. You know nothing about any of this and you have no desire to gain understanding. So, you approach everything through preestablished tropes.

And your sole argument against me is a strange one. You demand that I pay homage to a relationship to the issue of 'The Holocaust' and you exploit this tragic event in the most crude, vulgar and as I have said maudlin manner. This is an aspect of the emotional use of the Holocaust in what Norman Finkelstein calls 'The Holocaust industry'.

Now, what I do is simply refrain from stopping you. I apply no brakes to your approach and desire that you go forward with it. But I refuse participation with you in your vulgarism. And this, it would seem, pisses you off to no end! (And this is how the political and social Left plays its games. Or to put it somewhat differently, a great deal of its 'arguments' are really elaborate emotional and psychological games. I suggest, quite blandly but insistantly, that this is a genuinely destructive activity. But I also notice that you do not understand why. Perhaps someday it will become more clear?)
Last edited by Gustav Bjornstrand on Fri Feb 17, 2017 3:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
Gustav Bjornstrand
Posts: 1110
Joined: Thu Jul 18, 2013 2:25 pm

Re: The Rise of a European and American 'New Right'

Postby Gustav Bjornstrand » Fri Feb 17, 2017 2:55 pm

Belinda, I find it difficult to know where to begin to respond to your post. I don't think you have really engaged with what I presented. You say, and I think it is a dubious statement taken by itself, that 'inclusiveness' is your most cherished value, and you say that it is the value which defines the (north) European. One gathers that what you mean is that modern global liberal theory, if such a thing exists, is the outcome of this inclusion project. The problem with that claim, and with the activity of inclusion by cultural incorporation into the body of Europe of the 'other', is that then Europe would, inevitably, no longer be that Europe which horored the value which you highlight. But there is much more.

Your argument essentially side-steps everything which I described, and you seem inclined to do this because you have abstracted one sole value out of what surely must be (and is) a larger set of values, and those values which form European liberalism. Now, I use the term liberalism for the erstwhile political and social liberalism that arose in mostly Protestant Europe when that Europe was linked to its own traditions, its church, its social doctrine, et cetera. This is an admirable tradition. But it is also one that does not exist in our present in anything like the same way as it did. What gave rise to that high-minded liberalism exists less today and thus does not give rise to it. Therefor, something has to be recovered. And this is where identitarianism and Identity become necessary.

You fear this, I assume, because you fear and distain necessary definition and the mental strength required to arrive at it. You also seem to hold positions that operate against paternalism and paternal authority and, often, mention your opposition to the strength and power of the 'Caucasian male'. I see this as your problem. I would say that this is the first order of the problem, the root of the problem, and it is turning against your own men. I cannot imagine that it would be easy for you first to even see this as 'a problem' and second to rectify it, or modify it. But my Identity-project hinges in it. Everything begins just there, and everything extends from it. And beyond all doubt it is a project with direct ties to masculine identity and the recovery of masculine and paternal power.

I have a strong sense that it is this which is terrifying in many ways to the common consensus of our present. What does that mean? What will happen when men, as men, are reempowered and take stances against the feminization of culture? I recognize the problems and yet I do not recoil from examining them. And I also assert that the New Right is very interested in and concered for these issues as well. These 'identity projects' share, perhaps, one thing in common and it is a need to confront and challenge the wishy-washy liberalism (sic) of our present.

Belinda
Posts: 458
Joined: Fri Aug 26, 2016 10:13 am

Re: The Rise of a European and American 'New Right'

Postby Belinda » Fri Feb 17, 2017 6:12 pm

No Gustav! You have put words in my mouth which I did not say. I urge you to quote verbatim whenever you wish to reply to a post.

User avatar
Gustav Bjornstrand
Posts: 1110
Joined: Thu Jul 18, 2013 2:25 pm

Re: The Rise of a European and American 'New Right'

Postby Gustav Bjornstrand » Fri Feb 17, 2017 10:43 pm

My post was only a commentary on your post and I did not quote you at any point. I reflect on what I understand you to mean. Perhaps you can say where I come closest to understanding your position and where I most differ.

Belinda
Posts: 458
Joined: Fri Aug 26, 2016 10:13 am

Re: The Rise of a European and American 'New Right'

Postby Belinda » Sat Feb 18, 2017 9:55 am

Gustav Bjornstrand wrote:My post was only a commentary on your post and I did not quote you at any point. I reflect on what I understand you to mean. Perhaps you can say where I come closest to understanding your position and where I most differ.



Indeed and please note that I urged you to quote instead of paraphrasing without checking that was what one meant.

I will try to be plainer. Orthodox White European values are democratic and liberal. Democratic and liberal means that everybody is equal under the law, and nobody is excluded from their human rights on grounds of skin colour, gender, sex, age, ethnicity, race, money, dress , ability, social class, ancestral heritage , or religion.

My ancestors were White European liberals and I revere them and their liberal tradition. Do you revere liberal White European ancestors, Gustav?

You differ from my position in your devious and wordy style which simply annoys me ,as you seem to be an educated man.

You also differ from me in your lack of understanding that White Europeans are usually liberals not fascists. I understand we agree that the extreme Right is gaining popular power.


Return to “Political Philosophy”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests