David Horowitz: What do you think?

[Gary Childress]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=p ... 4vodBek238

So I know very little about this man but was presented this video (linked to above) by someone on another forum. I've been watching it. He seems like a reasonable person with a reasonable message, that universities should teach people "how to think" but not "what to think". However, he seems to have a huge problem with the "left", saying left intellectuals don't live up to that standard. His main position seems to be that "leftists" control American Universities and are using the position to foist their political views on students.

Again, I know next to nothing about him so I'm curious what others think of what he says and why? On the face of it he sounds very calm, resolute and sensible when he presents his points. Not sure if his points are based on an accurate assessment of American Universities or not, though. I've only attended a couple Universities (George Mason U and U of Illinois-Springfield's online program) and those schools didn't seem particularly "leftist" to me in the sense that they were teaching me to love communism or to be a "radical" activist or something. Now I did come away with particular ideas such as the idea that genocide is a bad thing (for example). I think that is a good idea to come away with. If I attended a school that got me to thinking that genocide was a good thing then I would say there was something fundamentally wrong with either myself or the school. I also came away thinking that causing the mass extinction of many other species on Earth is also a bad thing. In short I mostly came away with the idea that there were real problems in the world to be concerned about. Personally I wasn't taught what the definitive solutions to those problems were.

So I guess my questions are:

1. Is the so called "left" dominating American Universities and if so is it a good or bad thing?

2. Can or should universities be politically "neutral" and if so what constitutes political "neutrality"?

thoughts?

PS. I hope I am not hereby propagating the name and ideas of a madman by linking to a video all about him but I guess I run that risk by posting the link. My apologies if I am.

[bobevenson]

His main position seems to be that "leftists" control American Universities and are using the position to foist their political views on students.

I don't believe there's any question about that. Just consider the stupid left-wing concept, diversity, that has taken over academia.

[David Handeye]

I don't believe there's any question about that. Just consider the stupid left-wing concept, diversity, that has taken over academia.

Hi Bob, could you tell me about the left-wing concept? Is diversity stupid? What are in your opinion other left-wing concepts, except diversity?

[bobevenson]

I don't believe there's any question about that. Just consider the stupid left-wing concept, diversity, that has taken over academia.

Hi Bob, could you tell me about the left-wing concept? Is diversity stupid? What are in your opinion other left-wing concepts, except diversity?

David, diversity is stupid, and, of course, it's only applied to white majorities. Have you ever heard an academic complain about the lack of diversity in professional sports, where the majority of the players are black? The general feeling in academia is that the U.S. is evil and responsible for all the problems in the world. Academia in general has a socialist orientation and is against all aspects of capitalism. I hope this isn't news to you.

[David Handeye]

I don't believe there's any question about that. Just consider the stupid left-wing concept, diversity, that has taken over academia.

Hi Bob, could you tell me about the left-wing concept? Is diversity stupid? What are in your opinion other left-wing concepts, except diversity?

Diversity is stupid, and, of course, it's only applied to white majorities. Have you ever heard an academic complain about the lack of diversity in professional sports, where the majority of the players are black? The general feeling in academia is that the U.S. is evil and responsible for all the problems in the world. Academia in general has a socialist orientation and is against all aspects of capitalism. I hope this isn't news to you.

It is. I have to admit my ignorance. Please, tell me other left-wing concepts, except diversity.

[bobevenson]

Let's see, virtually 100% socialist?

[David Handeye]

Let's see, virtually 100% socialist?

Could be. To say the truth, I still don't know.
I'm still in search mode.

[bobevenson]

Let's see, virtually 100% socialist?

Could be. To say the truth, I still don't know.
I'm still in search mode.

Oh, and add lack of free speech for students opposing their leftist views.

[Melchior]

So I guess my questions are:

1. Is the so called "left" dominating American Universities and if so is it a good or bad thing?

2. Can or should universities be politically "neutral" and if so what constitutes political "neutrality"?

thoughts?

PS. I hope I am not hereby propagating the name and ideas of a madman by linking to a video all about him but I guess I run that risk by posting the link. My apologies if I am.

What planet are you from? How can you not know this?

1) Yes, overwhelmingly, the 'left' (for want of a better term) dominates American universities, and of course this is a very bad thing.

2) University faculty tend to 'drift' to the left because of the fact that there is a lack of real-world testing of thought. Ivory tower and all that.

[Gary Childress]

So I guess my questions are:

1. Is the so called "left" dominating American Universities and if so is it a good or bad thing?

2. Can or should universities be politically "neutral" and if so what constitutes political "neutrality"?

thoughts?

PS. I hope I am not hereby propagating the name and ideas of a madman by linking to a video all about him but I guess I run that risk by posting the link. My apologies if I am.

What planet are you from? How can you not know this?

1) Yes, overwhelmingly, the 'left' (for want of a better term) dominates American universities, and of course this is a very bad thing.

2) University faculty tend to 'drift' to the left because of the fact that there is a lack of real-world testing of thought. Ivory tower and all that.

My apologies. I am a white male of relatively modest means. I have never felt discriminated against for being a white male. I have attended two colleges in my life and have never been taught that I should believe in communism (for example) in any courses I have taken of a political nature. I have been taught some of the beliefs of Karl Marx but it was done in an objective and critical manner along side other political philosophies. I've taken economics courses where I learned about capitalism. I don't remember ever being told capitalism was a "bad thing" in an economics course. In fact I have never taken an economics course on "socialism", nor that offered a Marxist critique of markets. Granted it has been awhile since I took any economics courses so maybe that has changed and they are now teaching Marxist critique of markets in economics instead of a more Laissez-faire approach.

In my narrow experience, I don't see the basis for the allegation that something called the "left" dominates universities. Unless you mean by "left" believing in things like liberty, justice, equality, tolerance, prosperity, human rights, human dignity and things of that nature. I would think those would be uncontroversial beliefs. I mean surely slavery, injustice, inequality, intolerance, desire for impoverishment, lack of rights, and lack of dignity are not ideals in any rational person's book and therefore should not be taught as "values". What am I missing? What is the nature of your complaint?

Maybe if you sat down and took stock of what you have instead of what you don't, what you can do and say without repercussion, as opposed to what you can't without repercussion, then maybe you would come to the conclusion that things are not all that bad. Unless of course you happen to be black or a third world country, then you would probably have something to complain about. Don't you think? Maybe?

I have no problems in our society (other than keeping myself gainfully employed, which is my own problem due to mental illness). I also don't run around griping about white male oppression or other things that don't exist. Griping about white male oppression is a bit like griping that there are too many space aliens running Congress. People are quite naturally not going to take you very seriously.

Could all this change for the worse? Sure it could. We could live in a society where it sucks to be a white male. But that doesn't seem to be the case, even with programs such as "affirmative action" in place. So what are you complaining about? Are you complaining that blacks are underrepresented in Universities? Are you complaining that inner cities are terrible places to live? Are you complaining that blacks are incarcerated at a higher rate than whites? If so, then I can sympathize.

So tell me, what is your complaint?

[Obvious Leo]

Fancy applying such 19th century labels to 21st century thinking. How quaint you yanks are. However if you insist on such labelling there is no left in the USA. There is the right, the far right and the lunatic right.

[David Handeye]

Fancy applying such 19th century labels to 21st century thinking. How quaint you yanks are. However if you insist on such labelling there is no left in the USA. There is the right, the far right and the lunatic right.

Actually I agree. I always thought, as I tried to ask Bob, that diversity was a right-wing concept. Left-wing concepts are others such as egualitarism.
Then I think it's not a labelling question, as if you want to have a clear model of society to live in, you should at least know what are the ideals for which the governants you have voted for, assume as their own political target.

[Obvious Leo]

David. I'm quite a student of the US political scene and I see no evidence of a government of "ideals". As an outsider looking in the entire US political system seems to me to be nothing more than a facilitating arm of the corporate sector. Surely in this day and age nobody seriously believes that either the domestic or foreign policies of the US are being determined by its government? Such things only happen in democracies.

[Melchior]

So I guess my questions are:

1. Is the so called "left" dominating American Universities and if so is it a good or bad thing?

2. Can or should universities be politically "neutral" and if so what constitutes political "neutrality"?

thoughts?

PS. I hope I am not hereby propagating the name and ideas of a madman by linking to a video all about him but I guess I run that risk by posting the link. My apologies if I am.

What planet are you from? How can you not know this?

1) Yes, overwhelmingly, the 'left' (for want of a better term) dominates American universities, and of course this is a very bad thing.

2) University faculty tend to 'drift' to the left because of the fact that there is a lack of real-world testing of thought. Ivory tower and all that.

My apologies. I am a white male of relatively modest means. I have never felt discriminated against for being a white male. I have attended two colleges in my life and have never been taught that I should believe in communism (for example) in any courses I have taken of a political nature. I have been taught some of the beliefs of Karl Marx but it was done in an objective and critical manner along side other political philosophies. I've taken economics courses where I learned about capitalism. I don't remember ever being told capitalism was a "bad thing" in an economics course. In fact I have never taken an economics course on "socialism", nor that offered a Marxist critique of markets. Granted it has been awhile since I took any economics courses so maybe that has changed and they are now teaching Marxist critique of markets in economics instead of a more Laissez-faire approach.

In my narrow experience, I don't see the basis for the allegation that something called the "left" dominates universities. Unless you mean by "left" believing in things like liberty, justice, equality, tolerance, prosperity, human rights, human dignity and things of that nature. I would think those would be uncontroversial beliefs. I mean surely slavery, injustice, inequality, intolerance, desire for impoverishment, lack of rights, and lack of dignity are not ideals in any rational person's book and therefore should not be taught as "values". What am I missing? What is the nature of your complaint?

Maybe if you sat down and took stock of what you have instead of what you don't, what you can do and say without repercussion, as opposed to what you can't without repercussion, then maybe you would come to the conclusion that things are not all that bad. Unless of course you happen to be black or a third world country, then you would probably have something to complain about. Don't you think? Maybe?

I have no problems in our society (other than keeping myself gainfully employed, which is my own problem due to mental illness). I also don't run around griping about white male oppression or other things that don't exist. Griping about white male oppression is a bit like griping that there are too many space aliens running Congress. People are quite naturally not going to take you very seriously.

Could all this change for the worse? Sure it could. We could live in a society where it sucks to be a white male. But that doesn't seem to be the case, even with programs such as "affirmative action" in place. So what are you complaining about? Are you complaining that blacks are underrepresented in Universities? Are you complaining that inner cities are terrible places to live? Are you complaining that blacks are incarcerated at a higher rate than whites? If so, then I can sympathize.

So tell me, what is your complaint?

It is impossible to overstate how extraordinarily naive you are. The list you provide: 'liberty, justice, equality, tolerance, prosperity, human rights, human dignity and things of that nature'...what do you mean? A government is not supposed to provide 'social justice', whatever the fuck that means. I am not obligated to like anyone. If I want to walk out of a restaurant because the waiter is not to my liking (for any reason) it is my right to do so. That is part of 'liberty', you see. It's my money and I can spend it where and how I like. Universities are full of blatantly leftist and feminist (spit) politics, especially in the humanities. In preparing a new translation of Nietzsche, one female 'scholar' whom I was considering as the editor actually told me that I should not use masculine pronouns (such as 'man' for Mensch). That ended that endeavour. She was promptly dismissed. Imagine the gall!

'Equality'? Where did you get the idea that this is a good thing? Some people (individuals) are better than others. Why are some football players dafted ahead of others? Because they are better, dumbass! Do you mean equality of basic rights as stated in the DoI? That's not what most people mean by 'equality', buster. I am free to succeed and to fail equally.

You are a mush-brain.

[Obvious Leo]

I love it when yanks talk dirty. It reminds me of all the John Wayne movies I used to watch as a kid. In the land of the free if they piss you off you can just shoot the fuckers and be done with it