Like boxing with shadows.Know thyself and you will know your GREATEST enemy!Bill Wiltrack wrote:.
Hydrogen is a colorless, odorless gas that, given long enough, begins to argue with itself.
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Hydrogen
Re: Hydrogen
- Arising_uk
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Re: Hydrogen
No it's not.Bill Wiltrack wrote:.
Hydrogen is a colorless, odorless gas that, given long enough, begins to argue with itself.
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- Bill Wiltrack
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- Contact:
Re: Hydrogen
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.....................................................I see what you did.
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.....................................................I see what you did.
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- SpheresOfBalance
- Posts: 5688
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Re: Hydrogen
Arising_uk wrote:Er! Because they wrote them?SpheresOfBalance wrote:...
You've got to be kidding me, "because that's their job!" They are students of that which they teach. And again you don't seem very smart, as how are the text books that are supposed to be written about philosophers, any different than books that are supposed to be copies of those written by philosophers, in neither case can one "know" that they truthfully represent that which the philosopher said or meant. ...
You have never seen an original text, that was written by the hand of dead philosophers. They are in some museum somewhere. And even if you had peered at it through a glass pane, that's not reading it cover to cover. And even if they would allow you to actually touch the fragile pages, you couldn't be sure that they weren't written by some imposter. You'd just have to take it on "faith" that they were genuine and THAT'S NOT KNOWING, It's only "believing!"
I have no problem listening to professors about what they think of the books but you are an idiot if you think that you can form an opinion without actually reading the books yourself. A parrot in fact.You've clearly never read any of the translated books by those we call the philosophers as if you had you would have noticed that they have a translators foreword and copious annotations on every page where they think there is ambiguity with respect to the translation as they well understand the issues and difficulties involved in translating between languages and especially with something as complex as a philosophical thought. But the solution is easy, just read those written by the philosophers in your own language.The only way one could be sure is to talk to the philosophers, asking them questions, and that's impossible in most cases. FYI, my professor made a point of the fact, that the versions of text that were made available to us, where those that philosophy scholars agreed were the best resources to study, the most accurate versions. Of course he could have been lying, sure! Which tends to be my point most often, not yours!
Wrong, I have! There you go as usual, filling in my blanks, with your false preconceived notions! I'm not here to write a thesis on my total 59 1/2 years worth of life experiences, as rick would have to go out and buy 1000 8 terabyte HDD's and extra servers.
Blah! Blah! Blah!Yeah, and like I've said, that's you appealing to the masses that fear their death, believing that they shall surely side with you, creating a mob, (against me,) that due to that fear, shall do anything to save their lives, including the murder if an innocent infant. It just proves your cowardice even more! To the wise, that is!
Yeah, I've noticed that the truth about you scares you! Like I've said, you're largely in denial!
Your memory fails you petal as it was someone else who posited the thought experiment and you who responded to it first.Incorrect sweetheart, you brought the so called thought experiment to me, so you are responsible for all it contains. ...
Maybe so, but you didn't revise it such that it would really address the issue at hand, which would be self sacrifice, not killing some innocent child, that any coward would do, to save their worthless ass! You said that you would kill the child. In that moment you had the chance to set things straight and not kill an innocent for the crimes of the guilty, but you chose to murder a child instead of letting those that were guilty, kill themselves off due to their insanity!
Show me where I said I didn't fear dying? At best I'd have said I don't think about it.Earlier, in another thread, you had said that you did not fear death, but clearly you lied, your resolve to your thought experiment the indicator. ...
Another cowardly move by you, in denial of self, what a tard! It would seem you're a bit confused, and as such shouldn't be picking on the innocent users of this site.
Blah! Blah! Blah!Lies, deception, misdirection and fear your modus operandi. Anyone that looks at that thread, that you keep believing would save your cowardly ass from ridicule, shall see that it's your resolve that is that of a murderer, not mine! That I won't save you and your kind, from your own stupidity, is not me murdering you and yours, it's me allowing your stupidity to take it's course that you created, such that you murder yourselves. There are no theories in my resolve, just cold hard facts, that you're an insane coward that will kill an infant to save your self righteous, cowardly ass. ...
Again, in denial! Fearful of self! And that's why you're Asinking_uk!
I'm happy that others can read the thread and make their own decisions about my position as to what I say I think I would do in such a situation.
So you appeal to their fear of death, that says nothing whatsoever, you fool, save the fact that people fear death above all other things, and shall do ANYTHING to save their cowardly ass. Philosophy of mind is lost on you, at least when it comes to practical application. You're just a parrot that can paraphrase others words!
I also find your position hysterical given that you've claimed you were in a position to play with nukes and presumably would have to take collective responsibility for launching them.
God damn you must be stupid, that you think people are the same from birth to death, if so, then you and I would be saying, goo, goo, gaa, gaa, and pissing and shitting ourselves! Sometimes you seem like such a fucking moron, to ignore the simplest of truths! Surely "NOT" a student of philosophy.
lmfao! You live in a world of Hollywood fantasy Mr Wayne.And yes I would have either ran away if I could, or kicked the leader of the three so hard in his abdomen so as to cause internal bleeding, thereby cutting the head off the snake, the tail probably cowering in fear. No kung-fooy, that again, was the result of your fear!
No, I was on local television on three separate occasions back in the 60's breaking boards as an 11 year old!! At 8 years of age I could do 200 inclined situps. You've never been able to do even close to that. I would have ripped the fucking snakes head off! But notice that my first choice was to run faster than my would be muggers! I really love kicking the shit out of evil fucks that way, it makes me belly laugh when I look back and see them rolling on the ground gasping for air!
Once again for the hard of memory, not mine.As a side bar: I see that your thought experiment was severely flawed! For cowards it's often easy to kill another, to save their worthless lives. The far far better thought experiment is one where, in order to save the world from certain annihilation from a doomsday device, one would have to do something to stop it, that would certainly end their life. That there was no way to stop the doomsday device from killing everyone, unless one committed certain suicide. Now that's sacrifice! And that is the only true measure of ones commitment to the human race.
Yours, as soon as you validated it's constraints of killing innocents and agreed to do so!
Well duh! Of course you can change the parameters of the thought experiment but that's not the point is it you fruit-loop.
Nope, but I've eaten fruit-loops like you for breakfast! Hard to believe I actually liked that sugary cereal once. But to your last: As if thought experiments were set in stone by their creators, as if they can't be improved, and personally I don't see that the version that was posed spoke of anything other than: DO YOU LOVE THE INNOCENCE OF CHILDHOOD MORE OR LESS THAN YOU LOVE THE EVIL THAT MEN DO TO SAVE THEIR FEARFUL LIFE? And to me it's a no brainer. I love the innocence of childhood more than the evil that men do to save their worthless ass's!
Blah! Blah! Blah!
You set it up the way you did, because it's you that are the sociopathic psycho, willingly setting up an innocent infant as the mark to save those that created the dilemma in the first place. The way you treat users of this site, that you believe are unworthy, in the face of your thought experiment, the evidence! For you, the others that you say you would save, can only ever be used for the cannon fodder, that saves your worthless cowardly life.
Again your cowardice reigns supreme. No wonder you were mugged, I bet your psyche reeks of fear and cowardice!
- SpheresOfBalance
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Re: Hydrogen
Hey Bill. I like that. Kind of funny!Bill Wiltrack wrote:.
Hydrogen is a colorless, odorless gas that, given long enough, begins to argue with itself.
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- Arising_uk
- Posts: 12314
- Joined: Wed Oct 17, 2007 2:31 am
Re: Hydrogen
You not heard of copying? We also invented the printing press a while back.SpheresOfBalance wrote:You have never seen an original text, that was written by the hand of dead philosophers. They are in some museum somewhere. And even if you had peered at it through a glass pane, that's not reading it cover to cover. And even if they would allow you to actually touch the fragile pages, you couldn't be sure that they weren't written by some imposter. You'd just have to take it on "faith" that they were genuine and THAT'S NOT KNOWING, It's only "believing!"
Who'd want to hear it? It was you who said you didn't read your textbooks.Wrong, I have! There you go as usual, filling in my blanks, with your false preconceived notions! I'm not here to write a thesis on my total 59 1/2 years worth of life experiences, as rick would have to go out and buy 1000 8 terabyte HDD's and extra servers.
Name a book by those called the philosophers that you've read cover to cover?
Ooo! I'm quaking and rivers in Africa hold no interest for me as I'm not one of the partly-therapised.Yeah, I've noticed that the truth about you scares you! Like I've said, you're largely in denial!
You're an idiot who doesn't understand the point of such thought experiments in moral philosophy.Maybe so, but you didn't revise it such that it would really address the issue at hand, which would be self sacrifice, not killing some innocent child, that any coward would do, to save their worthless ass! ...
I'll leave it up to others to decide whether you are talking bollocks or not. viewtopic.php?f=7&t=15551&hilit=doomsday&start=30You said that you would kill the child. In that moment you had the chance to set things straight and not kill an innocent for the crimes of the guilty, but you chose to murder a child instead of letting those that were guilty, kill themselves off due to their insanity!
But I will say that my position was to kill an innocent to save my innocent kids along with the billions of other ones that would die in the scenario and live with the guilt involved. Your's appears to be not one innocent life will you take but are okay with the consequence being that billions of other innocent kids would die as well. No problem there really as your position is a valid one ethically but I personally couldn't face the consequence(not that I would of course as I'd be dead along with all the others). I have no understanding of why you get so upset at my position and can only presume you have no kids.
Changing a thought experiment to avoid making a choice is not setting anything straight at all, in fact it seems like denial.
So that'll be yet another 'no I can't show you I just made it up'.Another cowardly move by you, in denial of self, what a tard! It would seem you're a bit confused, and as such shouldn't be picking on the innocent users of this site.
If you say so SpheresOfBollocks.Again, in denial! Fearful of self! And that's why you're Asinking_uk!
Given that it's Ethics and Morals and not Phil of Mind I'll take your Psychology as misplaced as usual. Although you appear a touch confused as if your psycho-babble is true then how could you expect any other response from people?So you appeal to their fear of death, that says nothing whatsoever, you fool, save the fact that people fear death above all other things, and shall do ANYTHING to save their cowardly ass. Philosophy of mind is lost on you, at least when it comes to practical application. You're just a parrot that can paraphrase others words!
I'm not appealing to anyone's fears, I just can't be bothered to keep rehashing this stuff with you so just point others to the thread if they are interested at all, which I seriously doubt.
And yet some decided not to take jobs where they would be responsible for killing millions. You are like a born-again christian.God damn you must be stupid, that you think people are the same from birth to death, if so, then you and I would be saying, goo, goo, gaa, gaa, and pissing and shitting ourselves! Sometimes you seem like such a fucking moron, to ignore the simplest of truths! Surely "NOT" a student of philosophy.
"Boards don't fight back."No, I was on local television on three separate occasions back in the 60's breaking boards as an 11 year old!! At 8 years of age I could do 200 inclined situps. You've never been able to do even close to that. I would have ripped the fucking snakes head off! But notice that my first choice was to run faster than my would be muggers! I really love kicking the shit out of evil fucks that way, it makes me belly laugh when I look back and see them rolling on the ground gasping for air!
The most likely outcome of you taking on three of Brixton's finest would be you pissing and shitting blood in A&E(ED to you) from multiple stab wounds.
It's a thought experiment numbnuts.Yours, as soon as you validated it's constraints of killing innocents and agreed to do so!
And yet you ignored that it was a DOOMSDAY device and as such you will be allowing the death of billions of innocent lives?Nope, but I've eaten fruit-loops like you for breakfast! Hard to believe I actually liked that sugary cereal once. But to your last: As if thought experiments were set in stone by their creators, as if they can't be improved, and personally I don't see that the version that was posed spoke of anything other than: DO YOU LOVE THE INNOCENCE OF CHILDHOOD MORE OR LESS THAN YOU LOVE THE EVIL THAT MEN DO TO SAVE THEIR FEARFUL LIFE? And to me it's a no brainer. I love the innocence of childhood more than the evil that men do to save their worthless ass's!
Once in 56 years whilst living in a very rough part of one of the largest city's on Earth and being pissed and stoned at the time so wits were definitely not about me. I was very lucky, 'God' must be a dionysian.Again your cowardice reigns supreme. No wonder you were mugged, I bet your psyche reeks of fear and cowardice!
- SpheresOfBalance
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Re: Hydrogen
Do you mean 56 years at that time, or up to now. Because I thought you were older than I am. Oh well, makes no difference, as no matter which way it is I definitely have the better arguments. My logic is impeccable!Arising_uk wrote:You not heard of copying? We also invented the printing press a while back.SpheresOfBalance wrote:You have never seen an original text, that was written by the hand of dead philosophers. They are in some museum somewhere. And even if you had peered at it through a glass pane, that's not reading it cover to cover. And even if they would allow you to actually touch the fragile pages, you couldn't be sure that they weren't written by some imposter. You'd just have to take it on "faith" that they were genuine and THAT'S NOT KNOWING, It's only "believing!"
Of course, I actually ran old printing presses in Jr High School. I know all about the "California Job Case" a composing stick, ink, rollers and plates. But that wasn't my point and you know it! So why not get real for a second and actually address the point I was making. YOU DON'T "KNOW," YOU JUST HAVE FAITH IN THE SO CALLED SCHOLARS THAT CAME BEFORE YOU AND PROGRAMMED YOUR BELIEF! Wouldn't it be nice to live for millions of years and be there with every important human discovery and invention, so as to actually know the truth, not having to simply believe in your fellow fallible man? For the sake of actual unfettered "knowledge" I wish I could have.
Who'd want to hear it? It was you who said you didn't read your textbooks.Wrong, I have! There you go as usual, filling in my blanks, with your false preconceived notions! I'm not here to write a thesis on my total 59 1/2 years worth of life experiences, as rick would have to go out and buy 1000 8 terabyte HDD's and extra servers.
You have your head screwed on backwards, I guess you believe that books come from atheist heaven and are necessary absolute truths written by the non god. I hate to tell you this but books are written by the same people that can talk. They can either tell you their ideas or they can write them down so you can read them, but alas the information is exactly the same information. Sorry that I just burst your bubble, but words written in books by men aren't any more true than the words they speak. You are naive aren't you?
Name a book by those called the philosophers that you've read cover to cover?
I have a bad habit of putting a book down once I sense the authors illogical preconceived notions, based upon the ignorance of his time. I know, shoot me. I just fear being further led astray of the actual truth of things. So I'm a jack of many teachings, master of none! Maybe that's why I can see as clearly as I can, no garbage in, no garbage out!
Ooo! I'm quaking and rivers in Africa hold no interest for me as I'm not one of the partly-therapised.Yeah, I've noticed that the truth about you scares you! Like I've said, you're largely in denial!
Look, you don't have to embarrass yourself, after the way you deal with those you see as inferior in this forum, muggers, and infants about to push the button, we already know of your cowardice! Let's ignore it for now.
You're an idiot who doesn't understand the point of such thought experiments in moral philosophy.Maybe so, but you didn't revise it such that it would really address the issue at hand, which would be self sacrifice, not killing some innocent child, that any coward would do, to save their worthless ass! ...
No you're the idiot that believes they who wrote it are infallible! Like I've said, a mindless clone, hook, line and sinker!
I'll leave it up to others to decide whether you are talking bollocks or not. viewtopic.php?f=7&t=15551&hilit=doomsday&start=30You said that you would kill the child. In that moment you had the chance to set things straight and not kill an innocent for the crimes of the guilty, but you chose to murder a child instead of letting those that were guilty, kill themselves off due to their insanity!
I haven't checked! Have you either edited, or had your ex-fellow admins edit it for you, so you can save face? Once, part of the establishment, always a part of it!
But I will say that my position was to kill an innocent to save my innocent kids along with the billions of other ones that would die in the scenario and live with the guilt involved. Your's appears to be not one innocent life will you take but are okay with the consequence being that billions of other innocent kids would die as well. No problem there really as your position is a valid one ethically but I personally couldn't face the consequence(not that I would of course as I'd be dead along with all the others). I have no understanding of why you get so upset at my position and can only presume you have no kids.
No Arising, I do love my kids, and all of humanity. Ready??? Here goes: I JUST HATE MANKIND FOR GIVING THEM THIS FUCKED UP WORLD, OF ME, ME, ME, AT THE EXPENSE OF ALL THAT WAS GOOD. DEFORESTATION; POLLUTED AIR AND WATER; KILLING FOR RESOURCES, IDEOLOGIES, PREEMPTIVE STRIKES, COLLATERAL DAMAGE, POWER, FEAR, FEAR, FEAR; COMPETITION INSTEAD OF COOPERATION; THERE SHOULD BE NO SUCH THING AS MONEY, IT'S JUST ANOTHER WEAPON OF FEAR, LIKE A CLUB OR SPEAR; ADULTS ARE FUCKED UP AND ARE LEADING THE CHILDREN ASTRAY, SO THAT THEY'LL EVENTUALLY BE JUST AS FUCKED UP, JUST AS SELFISH, JUST AS DESTRUCTIVE, JUST AS EVIL; SO LET'S GET IT OVER WITH, MANKIND HAS LARGELY BEEN A FAILED EXPERIMENT; HE DOESN'T KNOW HOW LUCKY HE IS, HE DOESN'T VISIT THIS TRUTH EVERY DAY, INSTEAD HE SCRAMBLES TO DENY HIS FEAR OF DEATH, BY CREATING THAT WHICH SHALL EVENTUALLY KILL HIMSELF OFF, MORONS; THOSE THAT HAVE BEEN ALLOWED TO LEAD ARE FUCKING MINDLESS SCARED RABBITS, THAT DON'T KNOW THEIR ASS FROM A HOLE IN THE GROUND, LARGELY THEY BELONG IN A CAGE WHERE DUMB ANIMALS BELONG; LIKE I'VE SAID BEFORE, THE WORLD NEEDS TO BE RAN BY THE TOP PHD'S OF THE WORLD, NOT FUCKING DUMB ASSED POLITICIANS, THAT SEEMINGLY ONLY KNOW HOW TO USE THEIR POSITION TO SET IN MOTION THOSE LAWS THAT WILL HELP THEM STUFF THEIR POCKETS WITH THE MONKEYS GLITTERING PRIZE BECAUSE THEY FEAR DEATH; FROM MY PERSPECTIVE MOST PEOPLE ARE DUMB ASSES. Yep and still I love my children and humanity, not for what they have done and what they have been, but for what they could do and can become! A truly "balanced" set of hemispheres, that sees his existence depends upon "balancing" all that which is this symbiotic biosphere. As we only exist due to a currently "balanced" cosmos, and the "balance" of particles. We are nature and nature is us! If we turn our backs on nature we surely die, as we are nature! I'm getting increasingly tired of all the misdirected fear, that goes nowhere, relative to the universal perspective. Everyday we should visit the facts of exactly where and what we are from the universal perspective, for us to get a clue of what we "must" do to ensure we become the greatest we can be. It's not destroying, rather it's balancing that which requires balance for longevity's sake. We actually sell one another conditions, food and other such things that kills, so as to make a buck. We're a sick bunch, well at least those that allow, and those that are allowed to do such things, and in the name of what? Some fucked up concept called "economy," due to FEAR, selfishness, and largely a lack of cooperation! MANKIND'S CURRENT CONDITION IS FUCKED UP!!!! Know that I could go on and on with proofs of mankind's direction being largely ILLOGICAL! But for now you're lucky, my rant is over.
Changing a thought experiment to avoid making a choice is not setting anything straight at all, in fact it seems like denial.
No, I'm saying that the choices provided, were the wrong choices to examine! The only life that ANYONE HAS TOTAL DOMINION OVER IS THEIR OWN, THAT'S IT!!! PERIOD!!! Philosophically, the only life one has a right to take, is their own! PERIOD!!!! To become that which you fear nullifies the reason in that fear. To want for another that which one fears, nullifies any reason in that want! Those that believe otherwise, are CONFUSED COWARDS, pure and simple! My revised golden rule, the only way to proceed with interaction, anything less and one's a brain dead idiot, that may as well blow their brains out, because they don't have a clue!
So that'll be yet another 'no I can't show you I just made it up'.Another cowardly move by you, in denial of self, what a tard! It would seem you're a bit confused, and as such shouldn't be picking on the innocent users of this site.
You can show me what ever you want, just make sure it's clear, that it actually means what you mean it to mean.
If you say so SpheresOfBollocks.Again, in denial! Fearful of self! And that's why you're Asinking_uk!
Like I've said, I never created that moniker as a representation of my hemispheres. It's about molecular structure, the cosmos and the state we humans hemispheres must achieve, like that of the rest of the universe, or we're doomed. But I'm right about you, you tend to believe yourself a perfectly balanced mind, but you're not, not many of us are! The difference between you and I is that I'll at least admit it!
Given that it's Ethics and Morals and not Phil of Mind I'll take your Psychology as misplaced as usual.So you appeal to their fear of death, that says nothing whatsoever, you fool, save the fact that people fear death above all other things, and shall do ANYTHING to save their cowardly ass. Philosophy of mind is lost on you, at least when it comes to practical application. You're just a parrot that can paraphrase others words!
Psychology is never misplaced when it comes to human interaction, you should know that! We all have fears, death being the main. We all have agendas. We all have our particular experience's. We all have our bias's. We all have things that we deny to save ourselves from the cold hard truth. Many have serious problems being their own worst critic, the worst being the crazy's. And of course as usual, there is a spectrum of variance from the least to the largest degree of each of these, as well as many others. The degree of fear being the prime mover.
Although you appear a touch confused as if your psycho-babble is true then how could you expect any other response from people?
Degree of awareness and fear! Not psychobabble, I am an observer of keen understanding about the current human condition.
I'm not appealing to anyone's fears, I just can't be bothered to keep rehashing this stuff with you so just point others to the thread if they are interested at all, which I seriously doubt.
Yes, but you miss my point as if on purpose. OF COURSE they will side with you, AS THEY ALL FEAR DEATH ABOVE ALL ELSE. You appeal to that fear for your belief that your answer was the correct answer. But it's simply because most don't know what it means to truly sacrifice self for something else. Crap Christians as well as other screwed up religious people, seem to think that killing other beings like goats, chickens, infidels, or infants about to push the button, is some sort of sacrifice, it's not. Cowards shall do anything to save their worthless asses, while killing another might be the most distasteful for some, it's still the same thing. SELF SERVING, NOT SACRIFICE!
And yet some decided not to take jobs where they would be responsible for killing millions. You are like a born-again christian.God damn you must be stupid, that you think people are the same from birth to death, if so, then you and I would be saying, goo, goo, gaa, gaa, and pissing and shitting ourselves! Sometimes you seem like such a fucking moron, to ignore the simplest of truths! Surely "NOT" a student of philosophy.
So what you have just stated is that you have absolutely no idea why some people do this and some do that. Yet I've already told you time and time again. Each of our lives are an ever variable set of experiences, where any particular environment dictates the particular experiences, their order of experience, the intensity of the experience, where resolution to any problem can never be the same because of those variables. For instance, you live in the UK I live in the US. Your government is a monarchy, mine a constitutional republic. That's just a couple of the millions of things that cause us to decide things at different times. Remember I joined the US DOD when I had just turned 17 the month earlier, my father had to sign me in. Due to extreme family turmoil, that I'm sure you never had to deal with, I was given an ultimatum. I chose to run away from the crap, the only way I knew how. I had no idea what they would ask of me, they don't hand out brochures explaining what one might have to do. Trust me, I was not at all comfortable dealing with nukes, but back then especially, I never felt like I had much power of choice. Again, a testament to my particular experiences. Remember I've suffered from PTSD since the age of four. Consider yourself lucky! My quest for knowledge and truth is that which has been meant to overcome those things which have plagued me.
"Boards don't fight back."No, I was on local television on three separate occasions back in the 60's breaking boards as an 11 year old!! At 8 years of age I could do 200 inclined situps. You've never been able to do even close to that. I would have ripped the fucking snakes head off! But notice that my first choice was to run faster than my would be muggers! I really love kicking the shit out of evil fucks that way, it makes me belly laugh when I look back and see them rolling on the ground gasping for air!
So you think that Karate is only breaking boards, a testament you your ignorance of the arts. I wouldn't have been made the youngest black belt ever in my style at that time, had I not mastered all that was required.
The most likely outcome of you taking on three of Brixton's finest would be you pissing and shitting blood in A&E(ED to you) from multiple stab wounds.
That you hold your countrymen, though brigands, in such high esteem, shouts of your bigotry, and stupidity, but then you were a scared little rabbit, that much is now sure. Knives are easy, I mastered taking them away from karate-ka that I bet were much stronger and able, as they trained to be so. Guns close up are the same. But guns at a distance are a different thing. You hold a knife or gun up close to me and I'd take it away from you and whip you with it. I've done it before!
It's a thought experiment numbnuts.Yours, as soon as you validated it's constraints of killing innocents and agreed to do so!
You mean a flawed thought experiment, dickcheese!
And yet you ignored that it was a DOOMSDAY device and as such you will be allowing the death of billions of innocent lives?Nope, but I've eaten fruit-loops like you for breakfast! Hard to believe I actually liked that sugary cereal once. But to your last: As if thought experiments were set in stone by their creators, as if they can't be improved, and personally I don't see that the version that was posed spoke of anything other than: DO YOU LOVE THE INNOCENCE OF CHILDHOOD MORE OR LESS THAN YOU LOVE THE EVIL THAT MEN DO TO SAVE THEIR FEARFUL LIFE? And to me it's a no brainer. I love the innocence of childhood more than the evil that men do to save their worthless ass's!
Yet the key element here is that I'd be at ground zero, instantly vaporized! Washing my hands of playing the fear game through killing an innocent. Brave? Foolish? Allowing idiots to create a scenario that wipes us all out? Who knows?
Once in 56 years whilst living in a very rough part of one of the largest city's on Earth and being pissed and stoned at the time so wits were definitely not about me. I was very lucky, 'God' must be a dionysian.Again your cowardice reigns supreme. No wonder you were mugged, I bet your psyche reeks of fear and cowardice!
I guess you learned your lesson then. Which is to make damn sure that if you're drunk and stoned, to not walk through the bad part of town alone. Of course I'm glad you survived. You're one of my favorite people to argue with.
Re: Hydrogen
Actually, you'd be surprised at what you are allowed to touch. You have to wear gloves and you will probably have the curator hovering, but particularly if you are doing post-grad research, there is very little in public collections that will be denied you.SpheresOfBalance wrote:You have never seen an original text, that was written by the hand of dead philosophers. They are in some museum somewhere. And even if you had peered at it through a glass pane, that's not reading it cover to cover. And even if they would allow you to actually touch the fragile pages...
Why is this an issue? What difference does the author make to an idea?SpheresOfBalance wrote:...you couldn't be sure that they weren't written by some imposter. You'd just have to take it on "faith" that they were genuine and THAT'S NOT KNOWING, It's only "believing!"
- SpheresOfBalance
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Re: Hydrogen
Good point, but only if it's a good idea!uwot wrote:Actually, you'd be surprised at what you are allowed to touch. You have to wear gloves and you will probably have the curator hovering, but particularly if you are doing post-grad research, there is very little in public collections that will be denied you.SpheresOfBalance wrote:You have never seen an original text, that was written by the hand of dead philosophers. They are in some museum somewhere. And even if you had peered at it through a glass pane, that's not reading it cover to cover. And even if they would allow you to actually touch the fragile pages...
Riiiiight!
Why is this an issue? What difference does the author make to an idea?SpheresOfBalance wrote:...you couldn't be sure that they weren't written by some imposter. You'd just have to take it on "faith" that they were genuine and THAT'S NOT KNOWING, It's only "believing!"
Re: Hydrogen
Museums usually have more stuff in storage than they have on display. You might have to make an appointment, but the whole point of publicly funded museums is that they hold things in trust for the public. Private collections are a different matter. But try it, it's your constitutional right; if they say no, consider moving from North Korea.SpheresOfBalance wrote:uwot wrote:...there is very little in public collections that will be denied you.
Riiiiight!
You obviously haven't heard of the bible.SpheresOfBalance wrote:Good point, but only if it's a good idea!
- SpheresOfBalance
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Re: Hydrogen
Aren't you an atheist?uwot wrote:Museums usually have more stuff in storage than they have on display. You might have to make an appointment, but the whole point of publicly funded museums is that they hold things in trust for the public. Private collections are a different matter. But try it, it's your constitutional right; if they say no, consider moving from North Korea.SpheresOfBalance wrote:uwot wrote:...there is very little in public collections that will be denied you.
Riiiiight!
Seriously, I wouldn't want to touch them, for fear that I'd be responsible for breaking them.
You obviously haven't heard of the bible.SpheresOfBalance wrote:Good point, but only if it's a good idea!
Re: Hydrogen
The point is that you can.SpheresOfBalance wrote:Seriously, I wouldn't want to touch them, for fear that I'd be responsible for breaking them.
That's right Spheres, the point being that the bible is not a good idea.SpheresOfBalance wrote:Good point, but only if it's a good idea!Aren't you an atheist?uwot wrote:You obviously haven't heard of the bible.
- Arising_uk
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Re: Hydrogen
You really are confused aren't you. What happened to your faith in your professors?SpheresOfBalance wrote:Of course, I actually ran old printing presses in Jr High School. I know all about the "California Job Case" a composing stick, ink, rollers and plates. But that wasn't my point and you know it! So why not get real for a second and actually address the point I was making. YOU DON'T "KNOW," YOU JUST HAVE FAITH IN THE SO CALLED SCHOLARS THAT CAME BEFORE YOU AND PROGRAMMED YOUR BELIEF! ...
All I've said is that to have an informed belief about what a philosopher has said and what your professors say about what they said it's best to actually read the book under concern. For some reason this horrifies you and I have no idea why. That you said you didn't read them but just listened to your professors whilst accusing me of being a parrot is laughable.
You have an erroneous view of knowledge and how it is transmitted.wouldn't it be nice to live for millions of years and be there with every important human discovery and invention, so as to actually know the truth, not having to simply believe in your fellow fallible man? For the sake of actual unfettered "knowledge" I wish I could have.
What are you babbling on about? Philosophy books have been written by those who wish to impart their ideas, that's why one reads them. To try and understand what the other is saying and to decide whether one thinks the ideas are true or have merit and to do that you have to read them.You have your head screwed on backwards, I guess you believe that books come from atheist heaven and are necessary absolute truths written by the non god. I hate to tell you this but books are written by the same people that can talk. They can either tell you their ideas or they can write them down so you can read them, but alas the information is exactly the same information. Sorry that I just burst your bubble, but words written in books by men aren't any more true than the words they speak. You are naive aren't you?
What 'actual truth' of things? No data bugger all information.I have a bad habit of putting a book down once I sense the authors illogical preconceived notions, based upon the ignorance of his time. I know, shoot me. I just fear being further led astray of the actual truth of things. So I'm a jack of many teachings, master of none! Maybe that's why I can see as clearly as I can, no garbage in, no garbage out!
As you apparently can't as you bring up your bollocks time and time again.Look, you don't have to embarrass yourself, after the way you deal with those you see as inferior in this forum, muggers, and infants about to push the button, we already know of your cowardice! Let's ignore it for now.
Where do you get all this nonsense from?No you're the idiot that believes they who wrote it are infallible! Like I've said, a mindless clone, hook, line and sinker!
The point of such thought experiments is to examine unpalatable choices. In the one that we really should be talking about on the actual thread rather than here the choice is kill one innocent or let billions of innocents die. You choose to let the billions die I choose to kill one and my reasons are simple, four of those innocents are mine.
Paranoia now, you really are the full-ticket.I haven't checked! Have you either edited, or had your ex-fellow admins edit it for you, so you can save face? Once, part of the establishment, always a part of it!
Not that lucky as I had to read it in the first place.No Arising, I do love my kids, and all of humanity. Ready??? Here goes: I JUST HATE MANKIND FOR GIVING THEM THIS FUCKED UP WORLD, OF ME, ME, ME, AT THE EXPENSE OF ALL THAT WAS GOOD. DEFORESTATION; POLLUTED AIR AND WATER; KILLING FOR RESOURCES, IDEOLOGIES, PREEMPTIVE STRIKES, COLLATERAL DAMAGE, POWER, FEAR, FEAR, FEAR; COMPETITION INSTEAD OF COOPERATION; THERE SHOULD BE NO SUCH THING AS MONEY, IT'S JUST ANOTHER WEAPON OF FEAR, LIKE A CLUB OR SPEAR; ADULTS ARE FUCKED UP AND ARE LEADING THE CHILDREN ASTRAY, SO THAT THEY'LL EVENTUALLY BE JUST AS FUCKED UP, JUST AS SELFISH, JUST AS DESTRUCTIVE, JUST AS EVIL; SO LET'S GET IT OVER WITH, MANKIND HAS LARGELY BEEN A FAILED EXPERIMENT; HE DOESN'T KNOW HOW LUCKY HE IS, HE DOESN'T VISIT THIS TRUTH EVERY DAY, INSTEAD HE SCRAMBLES TO DENY HIS FEAR OF DEATH, BY CREATING THAT WHICH SHALL EVENTUALLY KILL HIMSELF OFF, MORONS; THOSE THAT HAVE BEEN ALLOWED TO LEAD ARE FUCKING MINDLESS SCARED RABBITS, THAT DON'T KNOW THEIR ASS FROM A HOLE IN THE GROUND, LARGELY THEY BELONG IN A CAGE WHERE DUMB ANIMALS BELONG; LIKE I'VE SAID BEFORE, THE WORLD NEEDS TO BE RAN BY THE TOP PHD'S OF THE WORLD, NOT FUCKING DUMB ASSED POLITICIANS, THAT SEEMINGLY ONLY KNOW HOW TO USE THEIR POSITION TO SET IN MOTION THOSE LAWS THAT WILL HELP THEM STUFF THEIR POCKETS WITH THE MONKEYS GLITTERING PRIZE BECAUSE THEY FEAR DEATH; FROM MY PERSPECTIVE MOST PEOPLE ARE DUMB ASSES. Yep and still I love my children and humanity, not for what they have done and what they have been, but for what they could do and can become! A truly "balanced" set of hemispheres, that sees his existence depends upon "balancing" all that which is this symbiotic biosphere. As we only exist due to a currently "balanced" cosmos, and the "balance" of particles. We are nature and nature is us! If we turn our backs on nature we surely die, as we are nature! I'm getting increasingly tired of all the misdirected fear, that goes nowhere, relative to the universal perspective. Everyday we should visit the facts of exactly where and what we are from the universal perspective, for us to get a clue of what we "must" do to ensure we become the greatest we can be. It's not destroying, rather it's balancing that which requires balance for longevity's sake. We actually sell one another conditions, food and other such things that kills, so as to make a buck. We're a sick bunch, well at least those that allow, and those that are allowed to do such things, and in the name of what? Some fucked up concept called "economy," due to FEAR, selfishness, and largely a lack of cooperation! MANKIND'S CURRENT CONDITION IS FUCKED UP!!!! Know that I could go on and on with proofs of mankind's direction being largely ILLOGICAL! But for now you're lucky, my rant is over.
You love all of humanity but would choose to kill it all, your kids included. You can keep that kind of love thanks.
As to the rest of the rant, you're certainly a glass half-empty kind of guy.
Or you could just do it with that quad mounted mini-gun of yours eh!No, I'm saying that the choices provided, were the wrong choices to examine! The only life that ANYONE HAS TOTAL DOMINION OVER IS THEIR OWN, THAT'S IT!!! PERIOD!!! Philosophically, the only life one has a right to take, is their own! PERIOD!!!! To become that which you fear nullifies the reason in that fear. To want for another that which one fears, nullifies any reason in that want! Those that believe otherwise, are CONFUSED COWARDS, pure and simple! My revised golden rule, the only way to proceed with interaction, anything less and one's a brain dead idiot, that may as well blow their brains out, because they don't have a clue!
Thought experiments such as was proposed are just to examine ones moral choices between unpalatable options, a situation that occurs often in life.
I'd prefer if you actually showed me where I've said the things that you claim I have.You can show me what ever you want, just make sure it's clear, that it actually means what you mean it to mean.
I've changed my mind, SpheresOfBonkers it is.Like I've said, I never created that moniker as a representation of my hemispheres. It's about molecular structure, the cosmos and the state we humans hemispheres must achieve, like that of the rest of the universe, or we're doomed. But I'm right about you, you tend to believe yourself a perfectly balanced mind, but you're not, not many of us are! The difference between you and I is that I'll at least admit it!
Nothing about love, friendship, altruism, care, etc.Psychology is never misplaced when it comes to human interaction, you should know that! We all have fears, death being the main. We all have agendas. We all have our particular experience's. We all have our bias's. We all have things that we deny to save ourselves from the cold hard truth. Many have serious problems being their own worst critic, the worst being the crazy's. And of course as usual, there is a spectrum of variance from the least to the largest degree of each of these, as well as many others. The degree of fear being the prime mover.
By and large psychology hasn't had a clue for most of it's tenure and it's truly bad when one gets a pet-theory about it and applies it to all and sundry and to every situation.
And yet you apply the same brush to everything?Degree of awareness and fear! Not psychobabble, I am an observer of keen understanding about the current human condition.
See what I mean?Yes, but you miss my point as if on purpose. OF COURSE they will side with you, AS THEY ALL FEAR DEATH ABOVE ALL ELSE. You appeal to that fear for your belief that your answer was the correct answer. But it's simply because most don't know what it means to truly sacrifice self for something else. Crap Christians as well as other screwed up religious people, seem to think that killing other beings like goats, chickens, infidels, or infants about to push the button, is some sort of sacrifice, it's not. Cowards shall do anything to save their worthless asses, while killing another might be the most distasteful for some, it's still the same thing. SELF SERVING, NOT SACRIFICE!
You nor I have no idea how others will side. Me I just point them to the link as I'm tired of correcting your bollocks about me. They can decide themselves and more than likely some will side with the 'no taking an innocent life' whatever the consequence. Like I said, a valid ethical position but one fraught with problems given that their inaction will kill multiple innocents.
No it's not, its a Constitutional Monarchy and effectively the monarch plays no role in government which itself is constructed as a parliamentary democracy.So what you have just stated is that you have absolutely no idea why some people do this and some do that. Yet I've already told you time and time again. Each of our lives are an ever variable set of experiences, where any particular environment dictates the particular experiences, their order of experience, the intensity of the experience, where resolution to any problem can never be the same because of those variables. For instance, you live in the UK I live in the US. Your government is a monarchy, mine a constitutional republic. ...
Try finding a reputable NLP therapist as what you've been trying does not seem to be working. Barring that try the CBT version from the psychoanalysts, it seems to be working with some of our vets.That's just a couple of the millions of things that cause us to decide things at different times. Remember I joined the US DOD when I had just turned 17 the month earlier, my father had to sign me in. Due to extreme family turmoil, that I'm sure you never had to deal with, I was given an ultimatum. I chose to run away from the crap, the only way I knew how. I had no idea what they would ask of me, they don't hand out brochures explaining what one might have to do. Trust me, I was not at all comfortable dealing with nukes, but back then especially, I never felt like I had much power of choice. Again, a testament to my particular experiences. Remember I've suffered from PTSD since the age of four. Consider yourself lucky! My quest for knowledge and truth is that which has been meant to overcome those things which have plagued me.
No, I know what Karate involves. But it was you making the board-breaking claims.So you think that Karate is only breaking boards, a testament you your ignorance of the arts. ...
And yet in Karate a black-belt is just the start?I wouldn't have been made the youngest black belt ever in my style at that time, had I not mastered all that was required.
You dojo warriors really do spout the most bollocks. Taking a knife away in a dojo is very different from taking it away in a real situation where your opponent is in a frenzy to kill you, you'd be lucky to get away with just a couple of wounds(not saying you might not manage it in a one-to-one) but in a situation where there's three of them you're pretty much gonna be lucky to get away with your life.That you hold your countrymen, though brigands, in such high esteem, shouts of your bigotry, and stupidity, but then you were a scared little rabbit, that much is now sure. Knives are easy, I mastered taking them away from karate-ka that I bet were much stronger and able, as they trained to be so. Guns close up are the same. But guns at a distance are a different thing. You hold a knife or gun up close to me and I'd take it away from you and whip you with it. I've done it before!
See all that stuff about different cultures, in mine 'Brixton's finest' is an ironic insult.
It's just a thought experiment you loon.You mean a flawed thought experiment, dickcheese!
That's handy for you. I'm sure the dead would thank you for it if they could.Yet the key element here is that I'd be at ground zero, instantly vaporized! Washing my hands of playing the fear game through killing an innocent. Brave? Foolish? Allowing idiots to create a scenario that wipes us all out? Who knows?
I lived there! You think I'm going to live in fear and curtail my fun just for them.I guess you learned your lesson then. Which is to make damn sure that if you're drunk and stoned, to not walk through the bad part of town alone. ...
Always a silver-lining.Of course I'm glad you survived. You're one of my favorite people to argue with.
Up to now.Do you mean 56 years at that time, or up to now. Because I thought you were older than I am.
If you say so yourself! Just a shame your axioms are awry.Oh well, makes no difference, as no matter which way it is I definitely have the better arguments. My logic is impeccable!
- Bill Wiltrack
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Re: Hydrogen
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I enjoy the two of you having a back & forth. Yet, you must realize that you veer far, far away from any semblance of philosophy?
...which, is Okay...but...ya know...
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I enjoy the two of you having a back & forth. Yet, you must realize that you veer far, far away from any semblance of philosophy?
...which, is Okay...but...ya know...
..................................................................................
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