Hydrogen

How does science work? And what's all this about quantum mechanics?

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SpheresOfBalance
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Re: Hydrogen

Post by SpheresOfBalance »

Arising_uk wrote:
SpheresOfBalance wrote:Of course, I actually ran old printing presses in Jr High School. I know all about the "California Job Case" a composing stick, ink, rollers and plates. But that wasn't my point and you know it! So why not get real for a second and actually address the point I was making. YOU DON'T "KNOW," YOU JUST HAVE FAITH IN THE SO CALLED SCHOLARS THAT CAME BEFORE YOU AND PROGRAMMED YOUR BELIEF! ...
You really are confused aren't you. What happened to your faith in your professors?
Sure I have faith in them like you do, which is to impart that which philosophers have said! However I question what they have said, when I find something at odds with that which I know to be true.


All I've said is that have an informed belief about what a philosopher has said and what your professors say about what they said it's best to actually read the book under concern. For some reason this horrifies you and I have no idea why. That you said you didn't read them but just listened to your professors whilst accusing me of being a parrot is laughable.
NO! A parrot is a parrot is a parrot. A parrot is:

parrot [par-uh t]
noun
2. a person who, without
thought or understanding, merely repeats the words or imitates the actions of another. --Dictionary.com--

You my friend are seemingly a parrot! Why? Because in the past I have said things pertaining to philosophy that you said were incorrect and that it proved that I had not studied philosophy. To which I said that I simply disagreed with the philosophers. This shows two things, first that I thought about what philosophers have said, and decided to disagree, and second, that you believed what they said, which was your measure of why you believed I hadn't studied philosophy. Despite the question of understanding, this surely shows which of us is inclined to be a parrot and which is not. I am not one to blindly heed, so called, authority. While it would seem you are! You then can be seen more inclined to be a parrot as per the definition above. Of course there is the question of each of our understandings of the particular point that was in contention, that I can't remember either of us addressing. But then there were multiple times when this occurred.
wouldn't it be nice to live for millions of years and be there with every important human discovery and invention, so as to actually know the truth, not having to simply believe in your fellow fallible man? For the sake of actual unfettered "knowledge" I wish I could have.
You have an erroneous view of knowledge and how it is transmitted.
Not at all, remember the story of my professor's, that was fired from writing for Britannica because he added things they wanted to exclude? Shaping history by exclusion is the same as adding untruths. You have the erroneous view, because you're a parrot!
You have your head screwed on backwards, I guess you believe that books come from atheist heaven and are necessary absolute truths written by the non god. I hate to tell you this but books are written by the same people that can talk. They can either tell you their ideas or they can write them down so you can read them, but alas the information is exactly the same information. Sorry that I just burst your bubble, but words written in books by men aren't any more true than the words they speak. You are naive aren't you?
What are you babbling on about? Philosophy books have been written by those who wish to impart their ideas, that's why one reads them. To try and understand what the other is saying and to decide whether one thinks the ideas are true or have merit and to do that you have to read them.
You're the idiot that said listening to someone recite what was said was not the same as reading it. Make up your mind, either you have faith in your professors or you don't!
I have a bad habit of putting a book down once I sense the authors illogical preconceived notions, based upon the ignorance of his time. I know, shoot me. I just fear being further led astray of the actual truth of things. So I'm a jack of many teachings, master of none! Maybe that's why I can see as clearly as I can, no garbage in, no garbage out! ;-)
What 'actual truth' of things? No data bugger all information.
I was not some 18 year young kid like most, (you?), were when I went to college. I was in my 30's. When I went to college I was 13 credit hours short of a technological associates degree, because of the US DOD training, working in, on and around multimillion dollar aircraft. I had already been around the world several times, and experienced many things, yep "actual truth of things," It's called life! It's a general education. Remember, I was the consummate observer! Quiet, reserved, and introverted. I only ever watched others, because I was not involved in the outside world, It was as if I was outside looking in, or more appropriately, inside looking out! I was afraid of putting myself out there, because I trusted no one! So I watched everyone. Their interactions, their motivations, their back stabbing, their secrets, their deception, their facades, etc! I analyzed all their interactions from all sides. I wouldn't talk to anyone back then Like I'm doing now, but I'd listen, very intently, finding contradiction in ones words, intent, their psyche. I was a very unusual fellow. It was all about the knowledge of what it is in being human. That's why I went to college, to understand the truth of things, and philosophy, I believed, was the way to do that. That is, above all other disciplines.

Look, you don't have to embarrass yourself, after the way you deal with those you see as inferior in this forum, muggers, and infants about to push the button, we already know of your cowardice! Let's ignore it for now.
:lol: As you apparently can't as you bring up your bollocks time and time again.
I was just being a little sarcastic. Playing with you. You know that! I'm just beating you down like you do others. Just giving you your fair shake. Don't want you to feel left out. You dispense the medicine, so it's only fair that you get a little taste. I mean, I'm sure that some of the ones you pick on, mean well. Again, you should use your knowledge to help others, not destroy them like all the other war mongers, with their fission! You surely don't act like you're against bombs! ;-)
No you're the idiot that believes they who wrote it are infallible! Like I've said, a mindless clone, hook, line and sinker!
Where do you get all this nonsense from?
You of course. I listen to your words and reflect back that which is contained within them. You know, you coined it! The meaning of your words is contained in the response they get! Hey, if you can say it then I can! All's fair right?

The point of such thought experiments is to examine unpalatable choices. In the one that we really should be talking about on the actual thread rather than here the choice is kill one innocent or let billions of innocents die. You choose to let the billions die I choose to kill one and my reasons are simple, four of those innocents are mine.
Nope, if you can kill a child like your own then you surely don't want to save children. You hide behind them because it's socially expected to save them; peer pressure. This way you appear selfless to the masses, all the while hiding behind the surviving children's bodies as well as the one you killed. You believe that numbers are important, I disagree. As much as it pains me to say it, instead I see that the innocent children that should be saved, are those of psychologically sound parents, remember there is no such thing as bad children, only ever bad parents. Unfortunately, children most often, copy their parents. So parents/adults corrupt their innocence.

My solution is much different than what you say it is. Neither I nor the innocent created the doomsday device, nor allowed access to the device by the innocent, so why should either I or the innocent be held accountable instead of those that were responsible for the making of the dilemma? If I don't kill the innocent and we all perish, neither of us are responsible for the deed, instead we are victims like all the rest. Those that caused the dilemma are those that are responsible. Why weren't they there to guard the device, as surely they would not hesitate to murder innocence, because in creating such a dilemma they already have! They need to peer into a mirror, looking hard and deep, as they have become that which they fear! Psychosis if there ever was!

OK Arising, it's your child, your favorite, what do you do? Or how about, you shall surely die with the innocent, if you kill them, now what? Now I know that in truth it's extremely easy to address such a hypothetical when it's on paper, that in truth one can't necessarily say what they'd do in that instant that it becomes a reality. Still project as best you can. And you don't even have to answer out loud, just to yourself.

I haven't checked! Have you either edited, or had your ex-fellow admins edit it for you, so you can save face? Once, part of the establishment, always a part of it!
Paranoia now, you really are the full-ticket.
Nope, just one that understands how people can be. And to be honest, you seem the type!

But I will say that my position was to kill an innocent to save my innocent kids along with the billions of other ones that would die in the scenario and live with the guilt involved. Your's appears to be not one innocent life will you take but are okay with the consequence being that billions of other innocent kids would die as well. No problem there really as your position is a valid one ethically but I personally couldn't face the consequence(not that I would of course as I'd be dead along with all the others). I have no understanding of why you get so upset at my position and can only presume you have no kids.
No Arising, I do love my kids, and all of humanity. Ready??? Here goes: I JUST HATE MANKIND FOR GIVING THEM THIS FUCKED UP WORLD, OF ME, ME, ME, AT THE EXPENSE OF ALL THAT WAS GOOD. DEFORESTATION; POLLUTED AIR AND WATER; KILLING FOR RESOURCES, IDEOLOGIES, PREEMPTIVE STRIKES, COLLATERAL DAMAGE, POWER, FEAR, FEAR, FEAR; COMPETITION INSTEAD OF COOPERATION; THERE SHOULD BE NO SUCH THING AS MONEY, IT'S JUST ANOTHER WEAPON OF FEAR, LIKE A CLUB OR SPEAR; ADULTS ARE FUCKED UP AND ARE LEADING THE CHILDREN ASTRAY, SO THAT THEY'LL EVENTUALLY BE JUST AS FUCKED UP, JUST AS SELFISH, JUST AS DESTRUCTIVE, JUST AS EVIL; SO LET'S GET IT OVER WITH, MANKIND HAS LARGELY BEEN A FAILED EXPERIMENT; HE DOESN'T KNOW HOW LUCKY HE IS, HE DOESN'T VISIT THIS TRUTH EVERY DAY, INSTEAD HE SCRAMBLES TO DENY HIS FEAR OF DEATH, BY CREATING THAT WHICH SHALL EVENTUALLY KILL HIMSELF OFF, MORONS; THOSE THAT HAVE BEEN ALLOWED TO LEAD ARE FUCKING MINDLESS SCARED RABBITS, THAT DON'T KNOW THEIR ASS FROM A HOLE IN THE GROUND, LARGELY THEY BELONG IN A CAGE WHERE DUMB ANIMALS BELONG; LIKE I'VE SAID BEFORE, THE WORLD NEEDS TO BE RAN BY THE TOP PHD'S OF THE WORLD, NOT FUCKING DUMB ASSED POLITICIANS, THAT SEEMINGLY ONLY KNOW HOW TO USE THEIR POSITION TO SET IN MOTION THOSE LAWS THAT WILL HELP THEM STUFF THEIR POCKETS WITH THE MONKEYS GLITTERING PRIZE BECAUSE THEY FEAR DEATH; FROM MY PERSPECTIVE MOST PEOPLE ARE DUMB ASSES. Yep and still I love my children and humanity, not for what they have done and what they have been, but for what they could do and can become! A truly "balanced" set of hemispheres, that sees his existence depends upon "balancing" all that which is this symbiotic biosphere. As we only exist due to a currently "balanced" cosmos, and the "balance" of particles. We are nature and nature is us! If we turn our backs on nature we surely die, as we are nature! I'm getting increasingly tired of all the misdirected fear, that goes nowhere, relative to the universal perspective. Everyday we should visit the facts of exactly where and what we are from the universal perspective, for us to get a clue of what we "must" do to ensure we become the greatest we can be. It's not destroying, rather it's balancing that which requires balance for longevity's sake. We actually sell one another conditions, food and other such things that kills, so as to make a buck. We're a sick bunch, well at least those that allow, and those that are allowed to do such things, and in the name of what? Some fucked up concept called "economy," due to FEAR, selfishness, and largely a lack of cooperation! MANKIND'S CURRENT CONDITION IS FUCKED UP!!!! Know that I could go on and on with proofs of mankind's direction being largely ILLOGICAL! But for now you're lucky, my rant is over.
Not that lucky as I had to read it in the first place.

You love all of humanity but would choose to kill it all, your kids included. You can keep that kind of love thanks.
Wrong! I didn't kill anything, I just didn't stop others fear to kill everything, are you fucking daft!

As to the rest of the rant, you're certainly a glass half-empty kind of guy.
You're a fool! That which is good doesn't need attention, doesn't need changing, enjoy it! That which is fucked up requires attention, requires changing, fuck it!!!!!!! I'm just not like your dumb ass, that whistles about all that's good, laughing and drinking to the day while ignoring the things that we do as a whole that shall probably destroy our children's future. Climate change is real, and humans could impact change for the better, if they weren't so selfish. There is a balance between animal and plant, yet we keep testing the fulcrum. It's not a coincidence that the more we grow in numbers so the other animals dwindle. And organic, non GMO food is the only answer to true nutrition, especially as we grow older. You're a little more well off over there, as many harmful things aren't allowed, over here the situation truly sucks. And with this jerkoff of a leader it's only going to get worse.

No, I'm saying that the choices provided, were the wrong choices to examine! The only life that ANYONE HAS TOTAL DOMINION OVER IS THEIR OWN, THAT'S IT!!! PERIOD!!! Philosophically, the only life one has a right to take, is their own! PERIOD!!!! To become that which you fear nullifies the reason in that fear. To want for another that which one fears, nullifies any reason in that want! Those that believe otherwise, are CONFUSED COWARDS, pure and simple! My revised golden rule, the only way to proceed with interaction, anything less and one's a brain dead idiot, that may as well blow their brains out, because they don't have a clue!
Or you could just do it with that quad mounted mini-gun of yours eh!
You're a nutbag, you know that? Remember that I told you that since I've been here I've lied once? Your a fool to go off half cocked like that, there is no one on the planet more controlled, rational and sane that I am!

Thought experiments such as was proposed are just to examine ones moral choices between unpalatable options, a situation that occurs often in life.
Some, so called, thought experiments didn't have much thought put into them.
You can show me what ever you want, just make sure it's clear, that it actually means what you mean it to mean.
I'd prefer if you actually showed me where I've said the things that you claim I have.
You know the answer to this problem: The meaning of your words is in the response that they get. ;-)

Like I've said, I never created that moniker as a representation of my hemispheres. It's about molecular structure, the cosmos and the state we humans hemispheres must achieve, like that of the rest of the universe, or we're doomed. But I'm right about you, you tend to believe yourself a perfectly balanced mind, but you're not, not many of us are! The difference between you and I is that I'll at least admit it!
I've changed my mind, SpheresOfBonkers it is.
Oh boy, you've wounded me, I think I'll cry now, wah, wah, waaaah. It's funny when you lash out with your confused infantile distortions of my pseudonym, and other equally absurd labels!
Psychology is never misplaced when it comes to human interaction, you should know that! We all have fears, death being the main. We all have agendas. We all have our particular experience's. We all have our bias's. We all have things that we deny to save ourselves from the cold hard truth. Many have serious problems being their own worst critic, the worst being the crazy's. And of course as usual, there is a spectrum of variance from the least to the largest degree of each of these, as well as many others. The degree of fear being the prime mover.
Nothing about love, friendship, altruism, care, etc.
Sure we "use" one another, because without one another we tend to go insane. This I've learned due to the research conducted on prisoners that have experienced solitary confinement for extended periods of time. You know it's funny how humans sugar coat everything, so as to hide the truth of the matter, to appear better than they actually are.


By and large psychology hasn't had a clue for most of it's tenure and it's truly bad when one gets a pet-theory about it and applies it to all and sundry and to every situation.
So you say, but then you don't have a lot going for you in that department, after all NLP is a pseudoscience.

"NLP has since been overwhelmingly discredited scientifically,[9][10] but continues to be marketed by some hypnotherapists and by some companies that organize seminars and workshops on management training for businesses.[11] There is no scientific evidence supporting the claims made by NLP advocates and it has been discredited as a pseudoscience by experts. --Wikipedia--"
Yea, like you have a clue about anything related to the human psyche, sorry Asinking_uk! Better luck, next subject!

Degree of awareness and fear! Not psychobabble, I am an observer of keen understanding about the current human condition.
And yet you apply the same brush to everything?
Humans are generally the same on a fundamental level. Sure we have slight variances when it comes to likes/dislikes, beliefs, knowledge, fears, wants/desires, etc, but that's immaterial. The fact that we all have and the reason for them is the common ground, as well as our needs.

Yes, but you miss my point as if on purpose. OF COURSE they will side with you, AS THEY ALL FEAR DEATH ABOVE ALL ELSE. You appeal to that fear for your belief that your answer was the correct answer. But it's simply because most don't know what it means to truly sacrifice self for something else. Crap Christians as well as other screwed up religious people, seem to think that killing other beings like goats, chickens, infidels, or infants about to push the button, is some sort of sacrifice, it's not. Cowards shall do anything to save their worthless asses, while killing another might be the most distasteful for some, it's still the same thing. SELF SERVING, NOT SACRIFICE!
See what I mean?
Nope, it would seem that you're mistaken.


You nor I have no idea how others will side.
Not true! The majority would choose your solution as pretty much everyone fears death. On this one I'd surely be in the minority. Spock said, "when the needs of the many, outweigh the needs of the few, or the one." And most would see themselves as part of that many. But that was his call, as the one. This innocent child has no ability to make that call, or it simply wouldn't push the button in the first place.


Me I just point them to the link as I'm tired of correcting your bollocks about me.
That you're so concerned with that ends is interesting, I've never seen you so defensive. That I've got you on the run is actually kind of enjoyable. I mean, I believe Bob likes it, as he constantly asks for it. But I see Bill as serious about philosophy, maybe not your cup of tea, but then others see you as an acquired taste as well.

They can decide themselves and more than likely some will side with the 'no taking an innocent life' whatever the consequence. Like I said, a valid ethical position but one fraught with problems given that their inaction will kill multiple innocents.
They're both fraught with problems.

So what you have just stated is that you have absolutely no idea why some people do this and some do that. Yet I've already told you time and time again. Each of our lives are an ever variable set of experiences, where any particular environment dictates the particular experiences, their order of experience, the intensity of the experience, where resolution to any problem can never be the same because of those variables. For instance, you live in the UK I live in the US. Your government is a monarchy, mine a constitutional republic. ...
No it's not, its a Constitutional Monarchy and effectively the monarch plays no role in government which itself is constructed as a parliamentary democracy.
That wasn't the point though, was it?
That's just a couple of the millions of things that cause us to decide things at different times. Remember I joined the US DOD when I had just turned 17 the month earlier, my father had to sign me in. Due to extreme family turmoil, that I'm sure you never had to deal with, I was given an ultimatum. I chose to run away from the crap, the only way I knew how. I had no idea what they would ask of me, they don't hand out brochures explaining what one might have to do. Trust me, I was not at all comfortable dealing with nukes, but back then especially, I never felt like I had much power of choice. Again, a testament to my particular experiences. Remember I've suffered from PTSD since the age of four. Consider yourself lucky! My quest for knowledge and truth is that which has been meant to overcome those things which have plagued me.
Try finding a reputable NLP therapist as what you've been trying does not seem to be working.
I haven't been trying anything, and who are you to say what has or has not been working. You believe in a pseudoscience for Christ's sake. So you obviously don't have a clue!

Barring that try the CBT version from the psychoanalysts, it seems to be working with some of our vets.

"There is no scientific evidence supporting the claims made by NLP advocates and it has been discredited as a pseudoscience by experts." --wikipedia--
So you think that Karate is only breaking boards, a testament you your ignorance of the arts. ...
No, I know what Karate involves. But it was you making the board-breaking claims.
And seemingly you're too dumb to understand what the point was!
I wouldn't have been made the youngest black belt ever in my style at that time, had I not mastered all that was required.
And yet in Karate a black-belt is just the start?
See, you don't know shit about Chitō-ryū

That you hold your countrymen, though brigands, in such high esteem, shouts of your bigotry, and stupidity, but then you were a scared little rabbit, that much is now sure. Knives are easy, I mastered taking them away from karate-ka that I bet were much stronger and able, as they trained to be so. Guns close up are the same. But guns at a distance are a different thing. You hold a knife or gun up close to me and I'd take it away from you and whip you with it. I've done it before! ;-)
You dojo warriors really do spout the most bollocks. Taking a knife away in a dojo is very different from taking it away in a real situation where your opponent is in a frenzy to kill you, you'd be lucky to get away with just a couple of wounds(not saying you might not manage it in a one-to-one) but in a situation where there's three of them you're pretty much gonna be lucky to get away with your life.
You don't know your ass from a hole in the ground. You have absolutely no idea how we practiced. I used it once on some guy. He made the mistake of threatening to hit me with a baseball bat. There were two strikes, me striking his face with my foot and him striking the ground with his back. His feet lifted off the ground by a foot, and in the end, they were 4 feet back from where they started. I left him on the ground bleeding profusely from his mouth. When he finally got up, I was told that the first thing he asked a bystander was, "What the hell did he hit me with?" Apparently he had no clue that I could be so fast and powerful as to sucker kick him in the face, before he knew what happened! He never threatened to hit me with a baseball bat again! Just the facts my friend. I wasn't on local television on three separate occasions because I sucked.


See all that stuff about different cultures, in mine 'Brixton's finest' is an ironic insult.
I have no idea what you're talking about, let alone what Brixton's is. It would seem that you were boasting how bad assed your muggers were.
You mean a flawed thought experiment, dickcheese! ;-)
It's just a thought experiment you loon.
No it's just a "flawed" thought experiment, you moron!
Yet the key element here is that I'd be at ground zero, instantly vaporized! Washing my hands of playing the fear game through killing an innocent. Brave? Foolish? Allowing idiots to create a scenario that wipes us all out? Who knows?
That's handy for you. I'm sure the dead would thank you for it if they could.
No, I think that if they could they'd thank the bastards that created the dilemma in the first place, as it would be they that were guilty of the crime.

I guess you learned your lesson then. Which is to make damn sure that if you're drunk and stoned, to not walk through the bad part of town alone. ...
:lol: I lived there! You think I'm going to live in fear and curtail my fun just for them.
We'll it true that you can lead a fool to knowledge, but you can't make him think.
Of course I'm glad you survived. You're one of my favorite people to argue with. ;-)
Always a silver-lining.
Not always!
Do you mean 56 years at that time, or up to now. Because I thought you were older than I am.
Up to now.
Well you are a baby aren't you.
Oh well, makes no difference, as no matter which way it is I definitely have the better arguments. My logic is impeccable! ;-)
:lol: If you say so yourself! Just a shame your axioms are awry.
So says he that believes in a pseudoscience.
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SpheresOfBalance
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Re: Hydrogen

Post by SpheresOfBalance »

Bill Wiltrack wrote:.





I enjoy the two of you having a back & forth. Yet, you must realize that you veer far, far away from any semblance of philosophy?


...which, is Okay...but...ya know...






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http://i.imgur.com/giXIKfH.gif







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Sorry Bill, are you pissed off at us for derailing your thread? You know how it is, you can't take us anywhere.
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