How does gravity work?

How does science work? And what's all this about quantum mechanics?

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PauloL
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Re: How does gravity work?

Post by PauloL »

Cerveny wrote: Sat Sep 02, 2017 5:36 pm We can consider the reality (3D+1 space) as a result of certain hyper darwinistic process.
Where's hyper natural selection here, Sir?
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Re: How does gravity work?

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PauloL wrote: Sat Sep 02, 2017 5:47 pm
Cerveny wrote: Sat Sep 02, 2017 5:36 pm We can consider the reality (3D+1 space) as a result of certain hyper darwinistic process.
Where's hyper natural selection here, Sir?
Perhaps it is occurring in every Planck's time step, in every new time sediment (of the space) quantum consolidation...
Last edited by Cerveny on Wed Sep 13, 2017 12:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Harbal
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Re: How does gravity work?

Post by Harbal »

Cerveny wrote: Sat Sep 02, 2017 6:57 pm Perhaps it is occurring in every Planck's time step, in every new time sediment (of the space) consolidation...
Is there any way to rephrase this so that it at least looks as though it might mean something?
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Re: How does gravity work?

Post by Dubious »

..by space reduction!
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Re: How does gravity work?

Post by Cerveny »

Harbal wrote: Sat Sep 02, 2017 9:23 pm
Cerveny wrote: Sat Sep 02, 2017 6:57 pm Perhaps it is occurring in every Planck's time step, in every new time sediment (of the space) consolidation...
Is there any way to rephrase this so that it at least looks as though it might mean something?
Between every new fixation of (time) sediment of a discrete, growing physical space structure (aether) some quantum consolidations run. In this deeply stochastic Darwinistic process, that we are not abe to describe by common physics, an optimal space structure is permanently finding/born. Sorry for poor English, perhaps you can better understand/accept this ideas after reading an old topic "Dualism of partice".
PS: A very far analogy to a space structure creation we can find in a e.g. stochastic consolidation/fixation of a sound of e.g. flute...
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Harbal
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Re: How does gravity work?

Post by Harbal »

Cerveny wrote: Sun Sep 03, 2017 9:06 am
Harbal wrote: Sat Sep 02, 2017 9:23 pm

Is there any way to rephrase this so that it at least looks as though it might mean something?
Between every new fixation of (time) sediment of a discrete, growing physical space structure (aether) some quantum consolidations run. In this deeply stochastic Darwinistic process, that we are not abe to describe by common physics, an optimal space structure is permanently finding/born. Sorry for poor English, perhaps you can better understand/accept this ideas after reading an old topic "Dualism of partice".
PS: A very far analogy to a space structure creation we can find in a e.g. stochastic consolidation/fixation of a sound of e.g. flute...
I've changed my mind, please disregard my previous request.
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Re: How does gravity work?

Post by surreptitious57 »

Cerveny wrote:
Between every new fixation of ( time ) sediment of a discrete growing physical space structure ( aether ) some quantum consolidations run
In this deeply stochastic Darwinistic process that we are not abe to describe by common physics an optimal space structure is permanently finding / born
Why do you think space is discrete? Do you think time is also discrete? If you cannot use common physics to describe it then does that not mean
it is entirely speculative? Although what you appear to be describing is the expansion of the universe which is not speculative at all even though
what is actually causing it [ dark energy ] is not known other than it has the property of repulsive gravity and like dark matter it cannot be seen
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Re: How does gravity work?

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surreptitious57 wrote: Sun Sep 03, 2017 11:56 pm
Cerveny wrote:
Between every new fixation of ( time ) sediment of a discrete growing physical space structure ( aether ) some quantum consolidations run
In this deeply stochastic Darwinistic process that we are not abe to describe by common physics an optimal space structure is permanently finding / born
Why do you think space is discrete? Do you think time is also discrete? If you cannot use common physics to describe it then does that not mean
it is entirely speculative? Although what you appear to be describing is the expansion of the universe which is not speculative at all even though
what is actually causing it [ dark energy ] is not known other than it has the property of repulsive gravity and like dark matter it cannot be seen
Physical space has a regular discrete structure and elementary particles are certain defects in such structure. Every real things, even space and time has discrete structure. "Nothing", Infinities and infinitly smoot objects are only category of math. Unlimitaly smooth physical structure is apparently (logical) nonsense (how would have looked/started) a border of an electron, e.g...
Physics has, just as math (Goedel), its objective limits: position and movement become inseparable from a certain scale, we can only measure / perceive only the response, reaction and global behavior of the system ...

The "expansion" of physical space is nonsense - then all physics must have been permanently changed. What actually should be expanded? Elementary particles or "nothing"? Physical space is crystalizing, condenzing, it grows from another "phase", from the "Future". At the begining was the Future only...

"Dark matter" is only a blender of elementary particles (matter) and aether (physical space). Aether is pulled by matter an matter is pulled ny aether. Gravitational repulsion is caused by antimatter.

All my consideration seems to me as only logical explanation of the reality. More details you can find in the topic "Dualism of particle", or such, please...
Last edited by Cerveny on Fri Oct 06, 2017 8:35 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: How does gravity work?

Post by attofishpi »

I'm still hoping someone will start talking about the 'Higgs field' - Sean Carroll gave a speech about it after it was finally detected and I was really impressed, he is one dude that can explain stuff to simpletons like me. Apparently, this Higgs field is what gives the sub atomic particles mass, hence gravity.
The Higgs field effect on these particles, the way he explained it, was like looking through a mist, some particles were affected and others not so much..
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Re: How does gravity work?

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Forget the Higss. Theories that are supported by such infinitely subtle, a mostly uncertain, non-reproducible experiments cannot be seriously used for really advance of physics. We need quite new understanding of physical space and time.
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PauloL
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Re: How does gravity work?

Post by PauloL »

Cerveny wrote: Sat Sep 02, 2017 6:57 pm
PauloL wrote: Sat Sep 02, 2017 5:47 pm
Cerveny wrote: Sat Sep 02, 2017 5:36 pm We can consider the reality (3D+1 space) as a result of certain hyper darwinistic process.
Where's hyper natural selection here, Sir?
Perhaps it is occurring in every Planck's time step, in every new time sediment (of the space) consolidation...
That looks more like supernatural selection.
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Re: How does gravity work?

Post by uwot »

Cerveny wrote: Thu Sep 07, 2017 4:47 pm Forget the Higss.
I don't think that is what attofishpi had in mind.
Cerveny wrote: Thu Sep 07, 2017 4:47 pmTheories that are supported by such infinitely subtle, a mostly uncertain, non-reproducible experiments cannot be seriously used for really advance of physics.
Well, the experiments are reproducible, but I don't think smashing hadrons together at nearly the speed of light qualifies as subtle. The theory implies that if you do that, you will create a particle with particular properties. They did it; they found it.
Cerveny wrote: Thu Sep 07, 2017 4:47 pmWe need quite new understanding of physical space and time.
Great. So how do you interpret the discovery of something that looks uncannily like the Higgs Boson in your model?
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Re: How does gravity work?

Post by uwot »

attofishpi wrote: Wed Sep 06, 2017 8:05 am I'm still hoping someone will start talking about the 'Higgs field' ...
Okie-dokie. The question is ultimately a philosophical one. Is the universe actually made of some sort of stuff?
Quantum field theories are based on the assumption that it is. (Note to instrumentalists: that does not necessarily mean it is.) The Higgs field is one such field, the idea is that it is an actual, physical substance. As such, some things moving through it are subject to drag. This means you have to put energy into the thing you wish to move. That amount of energy is what we feel as mass. In effect, you know something is heavy, because you have to push hard to move it; it's a bit like the difference between walking through air, and walking through water.
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Re: How does gravity work?

Post by attofishpi »

uwot wrote: Sat Sep 09, 2017 3:46 pm
attofishpi wrote: Wed Sep 06, 2017 8:05 am I'm still hoping someone will start talking about the 'Higgs field' ...
Okie-dokie. The question is ultimately a philosophical one. Is the universe actually made of some sort of stuff?
Quantum field theories are based on the assumption that it is. (Note to instrumentalists: that does not necessarily mean it is.)
Hi uwot, and thanks for considering my input! Surely by the very fact that we exist and comprehend things of 'stuff' then 'stuff'' exists. Even if, the matter that makes a grain of sand is made up of billions of atoms that require sub-atomic particles to make it 'so' ...and ergo, the same occurs within the very construct of our own consciousness. Ultimately, no matter how aethereal matter can be broken down, the universe is of 'stuff' !

uwot wrote:The Higgs field is one such field, the idea is that it is an actual, physical substance. As such, some things moving through it are subject to drag. This means you have to put energy into the thing you wish to move. That amount of energy is what we feel as mass. In effect, you know something is heavy, because you have to push hard to move it; it's a bit like the difference between walking through air, and walking through water.
I do comprehend one's indecision over whether 'something' constitutes a 'physical substance' - for me, if it exists, it IS physical.

This higgs field discussion, remains your domain and hopefully some that are intellectually conditioned on the same scope will join and I can observe.

I was thinking of dragging this thread off topic a tad - by way of talking of a binary universe. I won't, unless i am given a reasonable reason to do so.., I am more likely to do it via another thread, but just out of interest, how do you feel regarding such a proposition? Do you consider the universe binary, 'digital' - at its most finite scale'?
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Re: How does gravity work?

Post by uwot »

attofishpi wrote: Mon Sep 11, 2017 11:53 amHi uwot, and thanks for considering my input!
Well, we're all bonkers enough to be part of this nuthouse. Thank you for considering mine.
attofishpi wrote: Mon Sep 11, 2017 11:53 amSurely by the very fact that we exist and comprehend things of 'stuff' then 'stuff'' exists. Even if, the matter that makes a grain of sand is made up of billions of atoms that require sub-atomic particles to make it 'so' ...and ergo, the same occurs within the very construct of our own consciousness. Ultimately, no matter how aethereal matter can be broken down, the universe is of 'stuff' !
I can't really answer that without sounding like a parody of a philosopher. What do you mean by 'stuff'? As you rightly say:
attofishpi wrote: Mon Sep 11, 2017 11:53 amI do comprehend one's indecision over whether 'something' constitutes a 'physical substance' - for me, if it exists, it IS physical.
The thing is, physics is not really about 'physical substance'. Ironically, physics works perfectly well without physical substance; it's actually more about forces. All the maths is ultimately about how things move; how planets go round the Sun; how charged particles are effected by electromagnetic fields. The how and why are philosophy, it doesn't really matter what causes that movement, or what things are made of.
attofishpi wrote: Mon Sep 11, 2017 11:53 amThis higgs field discussion, remains your domain and hopefully some that are intellectually conditioned on the same scope will join and I can observe.
Philosophically, the Higgs field discussion is about whether particles are difficult to move because there is a physical substance that slows them down, or there is some magical force that does so, without actually touching them. Your gets is as good as mine; if for no other reason than that it's the same guess.
attofishpi wrote: Mon Sep 11, 2017 11:53 amI was thinking of dragging this thread off topic a tad - by way of talking of a binary universe. I won't, unless i am given a reasonable reason to do so.., I am more likely to do it via another thread, but just out of interest, how do you feel regarding such a proposition? Do you consider the universe binary, 'digital' - at its most finite scale'?
It's an interesting question. At the end of the day, it comes down to whether there is a most finite scale. You can flip a coin on that one. My hunch is that there isn't, but that may just be because I'm old enough to remember vinyl records
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