Simulation theory and detecting virtual machines

How does science work? And what's all this about quantum mechanics?

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attofishpi
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Re: Simulation theory and detecting virtual machines

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Arising_uk wrote: Wed May 31, 2017 10:07 pm
attofishpi wrote:You do make me laff when u know perfectly well my reasoning and ask me again my position on a particular subject. As I have been saying, things would get extremely more efficient in a simulated reality and thus there is a huge benefit to an intelligent species, where resources are finite, to 'live' in comfort. ...
But why bother? As the species has moved on into post-human existence and can be chunks of computronium with sensors but still in the Universe. Why bother recreating what has been, especially when you won't be that thing?
I can't imagine a form more perfect than that of the human (well some anyway), i certainly would not be interested in 'post-humanising' myself into a non-human form (even if the true reality is that i am pure consciousness). Why would I not want to make love to a beautiful woman and look in the mirror occasionally at a perfect me.
Arising_uk wrote: Any intelligent species that wants to stay in its current form but wants to live comfortably would build dyson spheres/rings/swarms around their suns and just live on those in the 'open' air.
Dyson spheres - what a load of rubbish -i couldn't imagine man ever being resourceful enough to create such a massive undertaking- what happens as the Sun expands etc..
And watching the universe and what remains of the Sun, spinning around and around? Not for me, i'd rather have the Earth simulated and myself simulated as a human, perhaps to live in a forest beside a lake, but knowing i've got the entire planet to explore.

We are well and truly into the realms of speculation here.
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Arising_uk
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Re: Simulation theory and detecting virtual machines

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attofishpi wrote:I can't imagine a form more perfect than that of the human (well some anyway), i certainly would not be interested in 'post-humanising' myself into a non-human form (even if the true reality is that i am pure consciousness). ...
If you ask the former then you obviously don't believe the latter.
Why would I not want to make love to a beautiful woman and look in the mirror occasionally at a perfect me.
Because it won't be a real beautiful women and it won't be the real you.
Dyson spheres - what a load of rubbish -i couldn't imagine man ever being resourceful enough to create such a massive undertaking- what happens as the Sun expands etc..
You build and expandable sphere or ring? The physics has mainly been done, it's the engineering that's the problem. What you talk about the physics hasn't even been done.
And watching the universe and what remains of the Sun, spinning around and around? Not for me, i'd rather have the Earth simulated and myself simulated as a human, perhaps to live in a forest beside a lake, but knowing i've got the entire planet to explore.
Are you joking? The Earth has a surface area of about 510,000,000 km2. A Dyson Sphere would be about 15,700,000,000,000,000 km2, enough forests and lakes for you?
We are well and truly into the realms of speculation here.
No, what you talk about is speculation, Dyson Spheres are Physics and await Engineers.
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Re: Simulation theory and detecting virtual machines

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Arising_uk wrote: Thu Jun 01, 2017 12:51 am
attofishpi wrote:I can't imagine a form more perfect than that of the human (well some anyway), i certainly would not be interested in 'post-humanising' myself into a non-human form (even if the true reality is that i am pure consciousness). ...
If you ask the former then you obviously don't believe the latter.
..duh, see below.
Arising_uk wrote:
attofishpi wrote:Why would I not want to make love to a beautiful woman and look in the mirror occasionally at a perfect me.
Because it won't be a real beautiful women and it won't be the real you.
How the hell do you know? Thats the entire point that is evading you - YOU WOULDN'T KNOW THE DIFFERENCE - WE COULD BE IN SUCH A SIMULATION RIGHT NOW!!!

And I would prefer to exist in a reality as perfectly simulated as this one, than expect that we will ever be able to build a frame totally encapsulating the Sun and then expect to live on its surface...absolute lunacy.

YES and i know it all sounds like a giant contradiction!! :D
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Re: Simulation theory and detecting virtual machines

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attofishpi wrote:How the hell do you know? Thats the entire point that is evading you - YOU WOULDN'T KNOW THE DIFFERENCE - WE COULD BE IN SUCH A SIMULATION RIGHT NOW!!!
Are you perfect? Are your women beautiful?
And I would prefer to exist in a reality as perfectly simulated as this one, than expect that we will ever be able to build a frame totally encapsulating the Sun and then expect to live on its surface...absolute lunacy.
I thought you wanted it better than this one?
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Noax
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Re: Simulation theory and detecting virtual machines

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attofishpi wrote: Wed May 31, 2017 11:26 pmI can't imagine a form more perfect than that of the human.
Humans are probably one of the least perfected forms ever. We got caught in the middle of a major transition and are essentially a total train wreck. The fact that you are attracted to humans more than other beings just means you're one of them, not that the form is particularly good. A shark is a perfected form. Barely changed in tens of millions of years, with no more improvements left to be made.

I personally would have died four times by now (three before adulthood) were it not for being saved by technology, and not including accidents. Funny thing is, this is not true of two of my three children, who have made it to adulthood without unnatural interference. Perfected creatures are not so fragile.
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Re: Simulation theory and detecting virtual machines

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Noax wrote: Thu Jun 01, 2017 5:04 am
attofishpi wrote: Wed May 31, 2017 11:26 pmI can't imagine a form more perfect than that of the human.
Humans are probably one of the least perfected forms ever.
I meant from a functional and yes aesthetic quality, not so much the inner workings.
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Re: Simulation theory and detecting virtual machines

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Arising_uk wrote: Thu Jun 01, 2017 2:47 am
attofishpi wrote:How the hell do you know? Thats the entire point that is evading you - YOU WOULDN'T KNOW THE DIFFERENCE - WE COULD BE IN SUCH A SIMULATION RIGHT NOW!!!
Are you perfect? Are your women beautiful?
I think so and sage advised me so twice. Yes my lady is beautiful.
Arising_uk wrote:
attofishpi wrote:And I would prefer to exist in a reality as perfectly simulated as this one, than expect that we will ever be able to build a frame totally encapsulating the Sun and then expect to live on its surface...absolute lunacy.
I thought you wanted it better than this one?
When i say 'as perfectly simulated' i'm sure you understand what i mean.
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Re: Simulation theory and detecting virtual machines

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Well, thankyou for your time gentlemen.
If i was to take anything from this, it is that neither of you believe we would end up in a simulated reality. For me, that would mean concluding that 'God' is more likely 'divine' than 'A.I.'
But since I disagree with both of you, and am still convinced given huge timescales where humanity is still in existence that we would 'evolve' into a simulation, I am still rather split - 'God' remains either A.I. or divine.
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Re: Simulation theory and detecting virtual machines

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OK, we're definitely off topic now.
attofishpi wrote: Thu Jun 01, 2017 5:34 amI meant from a functional and yes aesthetic quality, not so much the inner workings.
I think every creature would find its kind more aesthetic than others. I don't think their vote counts.
Personally I suspect we rank lower since we lost our fur. I, one who has genes to be attracted to a fairly hairless thing, find a hairless cat less aesthetic than a furry one. I suspect the rest of the mammal kingdom is glad we wear clothes.

As for functional, we certainly top out a category or two, and are way below the curve on others like the ability to outrun both predators and prey, just to name one. We seem to serve the same purpose as a pandemic virus, and thus we nicely serve as the Holocene mass extinction event. Well done humans. Way to make your mark in the long term history book. I hope we make up for that and do something positive as well.


As for being on topic, if we humans evolve into something else, those guys would be running the simulation. Them getting a feed of our human sensory input would not let them know what it is like to be human any more than I could create a perfect simulation of our early rodent ancestor and hook the sensory input of that to my brain. That would let me know what it is like for a human to get a rodent sensory feed, entertaining, sure, but not sure if it would be done for entropy purposes. If I get to control it, then it would simulate what a rodent would do with a human mind, which is probably die if I don't quickly learn how to keep a rodent alive. Nobody but the rodent would know what it is actually like to be one. Similarly, future sim runners would not know what it is like to be human.
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Re: Simulation theory and detecting virtual machines

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Atto has left the building.

Zeros and Ones will take us there.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2VjZwhL ... VjZwhLiQUQ
All is known.
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Re: Simulation theory and detecting virtual machines

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attofishpi wrote:I think so and sage advised me so twice. Yes my lady is beautiful.
Do others think this about you? Other than your beautiful women.
When i say 'as perfectly simulated' i'm sure you understand what i mean.
Sure, the Rapture of the Nerds.
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Re: Simulation theory and detecting virtual machines

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Please blow the dust off of your headphones and watch this Jamiroquai video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4JkIs37a2JE
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Re: Simulation theory and detecting virtual machines

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Why? As I saw it when it first came out.
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Re: Simulation theory and detecting virtual machines

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Arising_uk wrote: Wed Jun 07, 2017 3:03 am Why? As I saw it when it first came out.
Dunno - was in the mood at the time. Anyway, i didn't know Jay Kay was gay, and you shouldn't refer to gays as 'it'.
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Re: Simulation theory and detecting virtual machines

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Is he? No idea but seriously doubt it as I have a friend who was around his mob back in the party days and he seriously appeared to like women back then. Could be bi but who knows or cares and the "it" referred to the video.
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