Earth at the center of the Universe?

How does science work? And what's all this about quantum mechanics?

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Obvious Leo
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Re: Earth at the center of the Universe?

Post by Obvious Leo »

That time passes at an inconstant speed because of gravity has been empirically proven countless times and is constantly taken into account in many modern technologies, most notably the GPS navigational systems which are nowadays widely used.

I agree with the content of your Wikipedia commentary on the current theoretical status of GR. It is no longer regarded as an adequate theory and neither are SR and QM. However elements of each of these theories have been satisfactorily proven beyond all doubt and the inconstant speed at which time passes is one of them. Because of a gravitational differential the clock on the carpet ticks faster than the clock on the bare floorboards beside it and with the latest gee-whiz clock technology even this minute difference is MEASURABLE.
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SpheresOfBalance
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Re: Earth at the center of the Universe?

Post by SpheresOfBalance »

Obvious Leo wrote:That time passes at an inconstant speed because of gravity has been empirically proven countless times and is constantly taken into account in many modern technologies, most notably the GPS navigational systems which are nowadays widely used.

I agree with the content of your Wikipedia commentary on the current theoretical status of GR. It is no longer regarded as an adequate theory and neither are SR and QM. However elements of each of these theories have been satisfactorily proven beyond all doubt and the inconstant speed at which time passes is one of them. Because of a gravitational differential the clock on the carpet ticks faster than the clock on the bare floorboards beside it and with the latest gee-whiz clock technology even this minute difference is MEASURABLE.
Gravity is not the only thing capable of manipulating the speed of change, electromagnetic energy also causes change fluctuations. And since we can't create a universe, crap we can't even go to a planet in our own solar system very easily, we can't say for certain that there are not other unseen forces at work. All we know for sure is that what we have observed appears to fit the model, or more appropriately that our model appears to fit what we have observed. But that's the nature of humans making things fit, to appease their supposed intellect.

Leo, have you actually taken part in all the experiments that supposedly prove TQM and STR and GTR?
Obvious Leo
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Re: Earth at the center of the Universe?

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SpheresOfBalance wrote: Leo, have you actually taken part in all the experiments that supposedly prove TQM and STR and GTR?
Some of them. However your question is the wrong question. The experiments cannot prove the theories but only confirm specific predictions derived from the theories. Why matter and energy should behave in the manner that they do is beyond the capability of the models to explain because the theories only model effects and not causes.
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SpheresOfBalance
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Re: Earth at the center of the Universe?

Post by SpheresOfBalance »

Obvious Leo wrote:
SpheresOfBalance wrote: Leo, have you actually taken part in all the experiments that supposedly prove TQM and STR and GTR?
Some of them. However your question is the wrong question. The experiments cannot prove the theories but only confirm specific predictions derived from the theories. Why matter and energy should behave in the manner that they do is beyond the capability of the models to explain because the theories only model effects and not causes.
Which ones?
Obvious Leo
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Re: Earth at the center of the Universe?

Post by Obvious Leo »

I participated in time dilation experiments and also the two-slit experiment as an undergraduate student. Since then my involvement in such testing has been much less direct. However I can assure you that there is no conspiracy to delude the general public that these theories are a hoax. It is merely the fact that these theories have no explanatory authority which is not very well understood. They are not physical theories but mathematical representations of physical theories, a distinction which even many senior figures in the community of physics seem unable to acknowledge.
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SpheresOfBalance
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Re: Earth at the center of the Universe?

Post by SpheresOfBalance »

Obvious Leo wrote:I participated in time dilation experiments and also the two-slit experiment as an undergraduate student. Since then my involvement in such testing has been much less direct. However I can assure you that there is no conspiracy to delude the general public that these theories are a hoax. It is merely the fact that these theories have no explanatory authority which is not very well understood. They are not physical theories but mathematical representations of physical theories, a distinction which even many senior figures in the community of physics seem unable to acknowledge.
Perfect!

What was the plate made from in the double slit experiment?
What type electron gun was used?
How was it articulated relative to the surface of the plate?
How thick was the plate?
What was the target made out of, behind the plate?

That's enough for now.
Obvious Leo
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Re: Earth at the center of the Universe?

Post by Obvious Leo »

SpheresOfBalance wrote: What was the plate made from in the double slit experiment?
I'm not sure that I recall. I suspect that it was probably aluminium and I desperately hope that you're not going to claim it makes any difference because it simply doesn't. This experiment has been performed millions of times with hundreds of different materials.

None of the rest of your questions are even slightly relevant and I've long since chucked away my lab notes.
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SpheresOfBalance
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Re: Earth at the center of the Universe?

Post by SpheresOfBalance »

Obvious Leo wrote:
SpheresOfBalance wrote: What was the plate made from in the double slit experiment?
I'm not sure that I recall. I suspect that it was probably aluminium and I desperately hope that you're not going to claim it makes any difference because it simply doesn't. This experiment has been performed millions of times with hundreds of different materials.

None of the rest of your questions are even slightly relevant and I've long since chucked away my lab notes.
That you discount it/them shows that you're an arm chair poser, and nothing more. As everything I mentioned is in fact relevant. You forget that I worked for the US DOD for 16 years dealing with both sound and electromagnetic energy propagation. What a self stroking fool you are.
Obvious Leo
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Re: Earth at the center of the Universe?

Post by Obvious Leo »

I'm perfectly comfortable with the idea of allowing the forum members to judge for themselves whether my thoughts are those of a legitimate scholar or those of a poser.

The opinion of a foul-mouthed troll such as yourself is of no concern to me.
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SpheresOfBalance
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Re: Earth at the center of the Universe?

Post by SpheresOfBalance »

Obvious Leo wrote:I'm perfectly comfortable with the idea of allowing the forum members to judge for themselves whether my thoughts are those of a legitimate scholar or those of a poser.

The opinion of a foul-mouthed troll such as yourself is of no concern to me.
And you're just as unnecessarily foul, the means is of no importance. Foul is foul my friend!

And so am I, a legitimate scholar as to electromagnetic radiation propagation. And the possible variations of the answers to those questions do in fact matter.

Hint: electromagnetic energy can be either reflected, scattered or absorbed. Do you know how a raster scan of electrons are created in a CRT? And EME is reflected off metals, and other dense substances, that's how RADAR works. The patterns could have easily been either reflections or scattering, depending upon the controls in place. Things that you as a student, if what you say has any truth value, would have probably overlooked.
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skakos
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Re: Earth at the center of the Universe?

Post by skakos »

Obvious Leo wrote:
skakos wrote:
Obvious Leo wrote:In this respect Parmenides was an outlier amongst the pre-Socratics but his is nevertheless the stance taken by modern physics, which is the reason why modern physics makes no sense. On balance one would have to say that the eternalist paradigm which makes no metaphysical distinction between past present and future hasn't been working out very well for science over the past century. It was all Minkowski's fault for modelling time as a spatial dimension because spatial dimensions are bi-directional whereas time is patently not.
I believe that time does not exist. And if indeed is something like another dimension then you can surely travel into any direction you might want. Modern physics accept the possibility of time travel and Godel had proved that time does not exist. All these notions are greatly in sync with the "Only One exists" theory of Parmenides if you ask me.
Are you suggesting that the fact that physical reality is in a constant state of change is illusory?
Yes. Only if you trust your senses do you "see" change. The greatest philosophers have warned against trusting your eyes...
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Hobbes' Choice
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Re: Earth at the center of the Universe?

Post by Hobbes' Choice »

kakos wrote:
Yes. Only if you trust your senses do you "see" change. The greatest philosophers have warned against trusting your eyes...
This is the single most stupid thing I've read all week.
Your brain and senses do not simply invent "change". If you don't think things change - take a look in the mirror and compare it with one of your baby pics. You are making that up, somehow?

You might also like to consider this; without change you can not have written your post. So you have a choice; either there is change or you cannot say there is no change.
Last edited by Hobbes' Choice on Wed Apr 06, 2016 9:28 am, edited 1 time in total.
Obvious Leo
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Re: Earth at the center of the Universe?

Post by Obvious Leo »

Hobbes' Choice wrote: This is the single most stupid thing I've read all week.
It's been a week of notoriously stupid statements too, Hobbes, so skakos wins the chocolates in a highly competitive field. That reality and change are a synonymous concept is an ancient principle in both science and philosophy which is so well established that neither are meaningful unless this is accepted as an a priori truth.
skakos wrote: Only if you trust your senses do you "see" change.
It is changelessness which is illusory and this is a proposition of logic which is independent of the senses. It is also empirically demonstrable. At least a million neurons in your brain have been synaptically activated during the time it takes for you to read this sentence. This is change at the cellular level but there are several hierarchies of causation operating beneath this. At the molecular level at least a trillion discretely separate protein syntheses have taken place to initiate this cascade of electro-chemical activity at the cellular level and yet even this protein biochemistry occurs at a glacial speed compared with the rate of physical change within the individual atoms of these proteins. Atoms change at the speed of light.
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SpheresOfBalance
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Re: Earth at the center of the Universe?

Post by SpheresOfBalance »

Yes, I thought not, observers take heed, be the judge! This is a philosophy forum after all.

Do I lack socialization subtleties? Obviously! I seem to only be capable of treating in kind. Does that have any necessary bearing upon ones accumulation of knowledge? Certainly not! As often, cockiness can be the result of knowing with a high degree of certainty. Though it's certainly not always the case.

What people choose to believe, in the absence of their complete understanding and witness, with a dash of hero worship thrown in, often their bias! Empirical evidence, the only sure way we can say we know, especially the longer it stands against bombardment from opposition.
thedoc
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Re: Earth at the center of the Universe?

Post by thedoc »

It depends on your frame of reference. We are the only culture that we are aware of, so in that sense we are the center. We have the only religions that we are aware of, so in that sense we are the center. Physically we are on the outskirts of an insignificant Galaxy in the midst of many other Galaxies, so in that sense we are not the center, or in the Big Bang theory everywhere is the center. You pays your money and you takes your choice.
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