Why Obey?

[ForgedinHell]

Even if everything in the Bible were literally true, there would still be no rational reason to obey god. It would not matter if god created the cosmos, created us, that god was the most perfect being, stronger than anyone else, smarter than anyone else, even then, there is still not a single rational reason given to obey this god. Because no rational reason is stated for obeying god, any religion based on the Bible is immoral, because its message must be based on the teaching of blind obedience -- obey without any reason to, because we say so should be good enough.

It also shows why the Biblical religions have to be opposed to reason. They cannot justify their obedience through reason; therefore, they cannot stand against reason, but must crumble before it.

[johngalthasspoken]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JGtwd4xpY3Q

[vegetariantaxidermy]

Why obey? Because God is a bully and bullies tend to prevail. Wouldn't you agree?

[Atthet]

People should obey those who are wiser and smarter, just as a son should obey his father.
I'm wiser and smarter than FoggyFart, so FoggyFart should obey me.

[vegetariantaxidermy]

People should obey those who are wiser and smarter, just as a son should obey his father.
I'm wiser and smarter than FoggyFart, so FoggyFart should obey me.

That's right. Don't think for yourself. Obey your 'superiors'.

[ForgedinHell]

Why obey? Because God is a bully and bullies tend to prevail. Wouldn't you agree?

I was hoping that reason would bring the bully to his knees.

[vegetariantaxidermy]

Why obey? Because God is a bully and bullies tend to prevail. Wouldn't you agree?

I was hoping that reason would bring the bully to his knees.

Did it?

[ForgedinHell]

Why obey? Because God is a bully and bullies tend to prevail. Wouldn't you agree?

I was hoping that reason would bring the bully to his knees.

Did it?

Put it this way, so far, god is losing the battle of wits, and has no justification to offer for its crimes against humanity.

The destiny of superstitious religion is the funeral pyre.

[vegetariantaxidermy]

@FIH Apparently not.

[reasonvemotion]

Doesn't it promise life ever lasting.

and

"Isaiah described some of this joy when he predicted a nation returning to its land: "The ransomed of the Lord will return. They will enter Zion with singing; everlasting joy will crown their heads. Gladness and joy will overtake them, and sorrow and sighing will flee away" (Isaiah 35:10). We will be in the presence of God, and we will be happier than we have ever been. This is what Christianity has traditionally tried to convey by the concept of "going to heaven."

[ForgedinHell]

Doesn't it promise life ever lasting.

and

"Isaiah described some of this joy when he predicted a nation returning to its land: "The ransomed of the Lord will return. They will enter Zion with singing; everlasting joy will crown their heads. Gladness and joy will overtake them, and sorrow and sighing will flee away" (Isaiah 35:10). We will be in the presence of God, and we will be happier than we have ever been. This is what Christianity has traditionally tried to convey by the concept of "going to heaven."

That argument is no different from stating that "might makes right." Saying that one will be rewarded for doing an act, is not a just reason to obey. If the Khan would reward you with some oxen for the killing of innocent people, is that a reason to kill?

Besides the concept of heaven is childish.

[ForgedinHell]

@FIH Apparently not.

Atheism is on the rise. Most Christians are atheistic when it comes to large parts of their religion. They don't believe the immoral teachings, for example, "He who is without sin, let him cast the first stone," or "Turn the other cheek," and other such psychotic ravings allegedly made by Jesus. Christians, for the most part, share the same values as the atheists, and for the same reasons. They just have a harder time admitting this.

[reasonvemotion]

that argument is no different from stating that "might makes right." Saying that one will be rewarded for doing an act, is not a just reason to obey

or you could reverse it

("Let us have faith that right makes might, and in that faith, let us, to the end, dare to do our duty as we understand it"

Abraham Lincoln.

[ForgedinHell]

that argument is no different from stating that "might makes right." Saying that one will be rewarded for doing an act, is not a just reason to obey

or you could reverse it

("Let us have faith that right makes might, and in that faith, let us, to the end, dare to do our duty as we understand it"

Abraham Lincoln.

But, you don't need faith to do what is right. If Lincoln could rationally show a position is right, then faith is not involved. If he cannot rationally demonstrate a position is right, and must rely on faith to make the argument, then there is a good chance he is wrong. Remember, the people fighting against him also had faith they were right.

[reasonvemotion]

If he cannot rationally demonstrate a position is right, and must rely on faith to make the argument

Agree, but, for some it is not absolutely necessary, for some the eloquent use of a phrase is enough to make rational sense, whether or not it is true.

and as you know after that speech in February 26, 1860, he went on to win the presidential election later that year.