what to preach in a sunday sermon

[attofishpi]

People really do want everything to be perfect and presented upon a silver plate for them dont they Chaz.

I read the four gospels many years ago and granted noticed there were some inconsistencies in some accounts, they didnt however detract from the message(s) of Christ.

I did prefer the gospel of Matthew...cant remember why.

The 10 commandments are it. Christ is the answer if you have strayed over the boundary of said commandments, however, this 'love' is not unconditional.

[chaz wyman]

People really do want everything to be perfect and presented upon a silver plate for them dont they Chaz.

I read the four gospels many years ago and granted noticed there were some inconsistencies in some accounts, they didnt however detract from the message(s) of Christ.

I did prefer the gospel of Matthew...cant remember why.

The 10 commandments are it. Christ is the answer if you have strayed over the boundary of said commandments, however, this 'love' is not unconditional.

But the message is just a confused account of a man that may or not have lived. Why set so much store by such a confusion.
How can it claim the be the word of god when none of it is consistent?
I'll bet you never read the gospels with enough of a critical eye to notice any contradictions a the time.
The 10 commandments are a load of crap, very little to go on. If god exists and this is his word I'd suggest that he was a sad fucker to make it all about him.
Most people could think of ten more useful suggestions on how to live your life.
They don't mention the weak, women, children, health, or anything useful.
No one can even agree how many commandments there are, fool.

Want it on a silver plate - yeah that is you all over. You have not even bothered to study the bible properly.

None of your words can you even justify from the bible.
Tell me where it says in the gospels that you have to follow the commandments!
And what is it supposed to mean when you say "christ is the answer". What kind of nonsense is that?

Follow christ - on THAT evidence? You are having a laff mate!

[attofishpi]

But the message is just a confused account of a man that may or not have lived. Why set so much store by such a confusion.
How can it claim the be the word of god when none of it is consistent?
I'll bet you never read the gospels with enough of a critical eye to notice any contradictions a the time.
The 10 commandments are a load of crap, very little to go on. If god exists and this is his word I'd suggest that he was a sad fucker to make it all about him.
Most people could think of ten more useful suggestions on how to live your life.
They don't mention the weak, women, children, health, or anything useful.
No one can even agree how many commandments there are, fool.

Want it on a silver plate - yeah that is you all over. You have not even bothered to study the bible properly.

None of your words can you even justify from the bible.
Tell me where it says in the gospels that you have to follow the commandments!
And what is it supposed to mean when you say "christ is the answer". What kind of nonsense is that?

Follow christ - on THAT evidence? You are having a laff mate!

What quotes of Christ in the Gospels were contradictions?

Chaz, even the translation from Hebrew of the 10 commandments have inconsistencies. For example. Thou shalt not 'kill', was originally 'murder' to widen the scope of the commandment. The fact that i am stating there are 10 commandments to follow certainly does not make me a fool.

I was raised Catholic. More recently in life a sage confirmed that that was the path my soul was to take from the outset. Therefore, in my recent dealings with OUR God, i have to take heed of what i was taught.

You are right, i dont study the buy bull...the gospels read more like an actual story, an account of someones life and as such was easy reading, not like the other 'padding'

God laid down XX commandments at the outset to abide by. Period. Jesus IS the Son of God...the Christ, and as such the fact that he did not mention 'Hey everyone, dont forget to follow my Dads commandments btw.' is kinda redundant.

Christ is the answer...through belief in Christ, sins are forgiven.

Its not me thats laughing.

[Kayla]

You seem to contradict yourself. On one hand you say "I don't have to listen to sermons", and then you ask how could "anyone NOT want to go to church."

No contradiction at all. i don't go there for the sermons

I assume you like looking after the kids? Maybe you are destined to be a primary school teacher? - I would heartily recommend it.

maybe if becomnig a philosophy professor does not work out?

[mickthinks]

... contradictory and inconsistent.

... give differing explanations.

Well yes, chaz, but I can't help wondering which of the "differing explanations" are the "contradictory" ones you were referring to, and which are the ones you take to be "inconsistent"?


In case you still cant see it, 'm teasing you for your evident anxiety that the book shouldn't just be scorned, but that scorn should be heaped upon it.

[Arising_uk]

...

I am supposed to do it next sunday and i have no idea what to do any suggestions?

You could think about what you'd have liked to hear as a sermon from someone in your position?

My take would be also to think about what the sermon is for? Is it to reflect upon something thats happened or is happening in the group? Is it to talk about being a christian in general? To talk about something relevant in the world at large?

Once you've got the theme, make sure it fits how you feel and think, then think about your audience hearing and seeing it delivered, knowing many of hem how do you think they'll react to your words, how would that change what you'd say? Even better, once you've chosen the subject and parable, imagine yourself as a dispassionate observer of both you delivering the sermon and the congregation hearing it, and give advice to yourself in the pulpit. Hope this helps.
p.s.
Whoops! Too late! Hope it went well.

[chaz wyman]

... contradictory and inconsistent.

... give differing explanations.

Well yes, chaz, but I can't help wondering which of the "differing explanations" are the "contradictory" ones you were referring to, and which are the ones you take to be "inconsistent"?

WHY don't you open the bloody book and find out for yourself? You can read can't you?

In case you still cant see it, 'm teasing you for your evident anxiety that the book shouldn't just be scorned, but that scorn should be heaped upon it.

You are right - I still can't see what the fuck you are on about!
The book is what it is. Scorn has nothing to do with it. I scorn the morons who try to tell me that the book is 'god's word', that is worthy of having scorn heaped.

[chaz wyman]

You seem to contradict yourself. On one hand you say "I don't have to listen to sermons", and then you ask how could "anyone NOT want to go to church."

No contradiction at all. i don't go there for the sermons

DUHHHHH. But you said "I can't understand why ANYONE would not want to go to church". NOT why you would not want to go to church.

I assume you like looking after the kids? Maybe you are destined to be a primary school teacher? - I would heartily recommend it.

maybe if becomnig a philosophy professor does not work out?

Aye. a Phil Prof is a long shot for most people, but teaching kids under 11 years old will bring you personal rewards that go far beyond any dusty philosophy department.

[chaz wyman]

But the message is just a confused account of a man that may or not have lived. Why set so much store by such a confusion.
How can it claim the be the word of god when none of it is consistent?
I'll bet you never read the gospels with enough of a critical eye to notice any contradictions a the time.
The 10 commandments are a load of crap, very little to go on. If god exists and this is his word I'd suggest that he was a sad fucker to make it all about him.
Most people could think of ten more useful suggestions on how to live your life.
They don't mention the weak, women, children, health, or anything useful.
No one can even agree how many commandments there are, fool.

Want it on a silver plate - yeah that is you all over. You have not even bothered to study the bible properly.

None of your words can you even justify from the bible.
Tell me where it says in the gospels that you have to follow the commandments!
And what is it supposed to mean when you say "christ is the answer". What kind of nonsense is that?

Follow christ - on THAT evidence? You are having a laff mate!

What quotes of Christ in the Gospels were contradictions?

There are many.
Here is one.

John 2:19-21
Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up. Then said the Jews, Forty and six years was this temple in building, and wilt thou rear it up in three days? But he spake of the temple of his body.
Matthew 26:59-61
Now the chief priests, and elders, and all the council, sought false witness against Jesus, to put him to death; But found none: yea, though many false witnesses came, yet found they none. At the last came two false witnesses, And said, This fellow said, I am able to destroy the temple of God, and to build it in three days.
Mark 14:57-58
And there arose certain, and bare false witness against him, saying, We heard him say, I will destroy this temple that is made with hands, and within three days I will build another made without hands.

Sorry I can't follow Christ, but I cannot suspend my disbelief and I have no free-will to overcome my objections. Oddly enough the bible agrees with me that I have no free-will.
It seems that god has made me such that I cannot believe in him.

Jeremiah 10:23
O LORD, I know that the way of man is not in himself: it is not in man that walketh to direct his steps.
Acts 13:48
And as many as were ordained to eternal life believed.
Rom.8:29-30
For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate.... Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.
Rom.9:11-22
For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth. .... For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion. So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy. For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might shew my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth. Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth. Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? ... Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus? Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour? What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction.
Eph.1:4-5
He hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love: Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will.
2 Th.2:11-12
God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: That they all might be damned.
2 Tim.1:9
Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began.
Jude 4
For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation.

[mickthinks]

I still can't see what the fuck you are on about!

Oh I think you can, chaz

[chaz wyman]

I still can't see what the fuck you are on about!

Oh I think you can, chaz

You seem to be obsessed by the difference between contradiction and inconsistency.
I think the problem is in your head, not mine.

[Kayla]

ok i did the sermon

at a risk of being told that i am insane, stupid, irrational, whatever, i will share what i can with you

I wanted to gently introduce the notion of universal salvation. now there is a lot more universalism here in the south than many people realize, but its very closeted i want to gently pry open the closet

so I was going to talk to them about the meaning of Christ saying Do Not judge, about how we are not in a position to say whether or not someone is saved - whatever their beliefs concerning god happen to be, among other things.

we have no authority to condemn anyone to damnation

so i got behind the pulpit, put down my speaking notes and started to speak.

except that i did not follow my notes. I started to speak, and i was a few seconds behind what i was saying it was like watching myself speak.

i have heard pentecostals talk about being overcome by the holy spirit, it was a lot like that

i think it was a good sermon
lots of people thought it was a good sermon

i cannot really summarize it. i am not really sure in detail what i said.

it was amazing and scary at the same time. i was tired. Last time i felt that physically tired was when i tried really hard to win an 8 mile run and finished it and started to throw up no throwing up this time though

i asked my mom to just take me home and i just wanted to sleep and asked mom to stay with me and hold my hand till i fell asleep i have not done that for i dont know how many years

just woke up and i am calm now trying to make sense of the whol ething

chaz, its easy to arrange your churchgoing in such a way that you dont have to listen to the sermon but still get to binge o n the cookies

[ochaye]

Oh yeah and...

Where did John baptize?
Were the Pharisees baptized by John?
How did God address Jesus at his baptism?
Can God be tempted?
Is it OK to test (or tempt) God?
Who is the Lord of this world?
Who owns the earth?
Should we serve God alone?

This is just Matthew.

Don't they say, "Context is everything"?

[ochaye]

The 10 commandments are a load of crap, very little to go on.

The principles of the sanctity of life and property are everywhere the basis of civil and criminal law, in their every aspect. Not that anyone needed to be told to neither kill nor steal— law existed long before Moses or even Abraham. These commands were included so that there was no doubt about the nature of the true deity. Other 'deities', constructs of humanity, provided grey areas about theft and violence, as were convenient to local rulers. Those principles of the sanctity of life and property are basic to human, even animal existence. The laws on adultery and giving false witness were extensions of those basic laws. The law on coveting was an extension of them into the psyche, to motivation. It was not a law susceptible to policing, law with capacity to provide legal redress. It was a law that foreshadowed a 'law' that was to come, an internal one. The law on honouring one's parents was contingent upon the existence of revealed law in a particular association of people, because it was by personal transmission from parent to child that their law was to be perpetuated. It was to place an onus on parents to behave responsibly, in accord with their own commandments; and this induced responsibility for child care in parents that is famous in Jewish families even now. The law on Sabbaths was foreshadowing of the liberation promised to the revered ancestors Abraham, Isaac and Israel (Jacob). It was indication that the law of Moses was only a temporary provision until a better remedy was given. In a sense, the Law contained the germ of its own destruction, and this would have been perceived by thoughtful Israelites as they sat quietly in their dwellings on sabbath days.

The interests of the weak, women, children, health, everything useful in any society, are founded upon those principles of the sanctity of life and property; to disregard them is to favour anarchy, barbarism and eventual extinction. Those interests were mentioned specifically, in detail, in other commandments. Modern governments might make a good deal of social progress if they were to apply more Mosaic principles in their legislation. Alas, capitalism has taken its grip globally (which could never have occurred in Israel) and Bismarck's dictum that politics is 'the art of the possible' operates.

If god exists and this is his word I'd suggest that he was a sad fucker to make it all about him.

It was firstly about him in order to make it about people, because people do not respect each other enough. A nation that had been saved from slavery by a series of mighty miraculous acts might have been expected to have respect for its deliverer. Which was indeed the case, until generations grew up that did not suppose that their society owed any debt to that deliverer. But then people are like that, as we know from modern politics and societies. People learn the hard way; but then they have to learn it again. Plus ça change...

The Decalogue has logic and sagacity of comprehensive and indeed supernatural nature also, once it is understood fully, in its full context.

Not that the Decalogue and six hundred other commandments made as much difference to the Israelites as might be expected, because, as mentioned, they often found it too hard to apply their laws. Mosaic Law was set up as the moral ideal in its contemporary setting. It was intended to show precisely that most of humanity does not have respect for itself; or, to express it another way, that people do not value a clear conscience. It was called a 'schoolmaster' to lead to a messiah who would motivate to treat others as one would wish to be treated, with love, which looks after one's best interests. As declared by him, that messiah did not come for all, but for those who were troubled by their consciences and wished to have them cleared more than they wanted anything else. Those, according to the respective lore, are ever a minority.

[chaz wyman]

The 10 commandments are a load of crap, very little to go on.

The principles of the sanctity of life and property are everywhere the basis of civil and criminal law, in their every aspect.

The principles of the sanctity of life has very little to do with the 10 commandments. All pagan cultures have valued life.


Not that anyone needed to be told to neither kill nor steal— law existed long before Moses or even Abraham.

In all lands and cultures.

These commands were included so that there was no doubt about the nature of the true deity. Other 'deities', constructs of humanity, provided grey areas about theft and violence, as were convenient to local rulers. Those principles of the sanctity of life and property are basic to human, even animal existence. The laws on adultery and giving false witness were extensions of those basic laws. The law on coveting was an extension of them into the psyche, to motivation. It was not a law susceptible to policing, law with capacity to provide legal redress. It was a law that foreshadowed a 'law' that was to come, an internal one. The law on honouring one's parents was contingent upon the existence of revealed law in a particular association of people, because it was by personal transmission from parent to child that their law was to be perpetuated. It was to place an onus on parents to behave responsibly, in accord with their own commandments; and this induced responsibility for child care in parents that is famous in Jewish families even now. The law on Sabbaths was foreshadowing of the liberation promised to the revered ancestors Abraham, Isaac and Israel (Jacob). It was indication that the law of Moses was only a temporary provision until a better remedy was given. In a sense, the Law contained the germ of its own destruction, and this would have been perceived by thoughtful Israelites as they sat quietly in their dwellings on sabbath days.

The interests of the weak, women, children, health, everything useful in any society, are founded upon those principles of the sanctity of life and property; to disregard them is to favour anarchy, barbarism and eventual extinction. Those interests were mentioned specifically, in detail, in other commandments. Modern governments might make a good deal of social progress if they were to apply more Mosaic principles in their legislation. Alas, capitalism has taken its grip globally (which could never have occurred in Israel) and Bismarck's dictum that politics is 'the art of the possible' operates.


Sadly the 10 Commandments say NOTHING about women, children, the weak, the old, other cultures. If I has 10 rules to make about human life I would not waste the first 4 on honouring an invisible deity. There are far more important things. Thinking about it, even if I were God I would not waste the first 4. Nor would I suggest you honour your parents - you should give honour to all other persons.
Then 7 and 10 are the same; covet another's wife and adultery. So half of them are redundant.
This is what I meant about them being CRAP.

If god exists and this is his word I'd suggest that he was a sad fucker to make it all about him.

It was firstly about him in order to make it about people, because people do not respect each other enough. A nation that had been saved from slavery by a series of mighty miraculous acts might have been expected to have respect for its deliverer. Which was indeed the case, until generations grew up that did not suppose that their society owed any debt to that deliverer. But then people are like that, as we know from modern politics and societies. People learn the hard way; but then they have to learn it again. Plus ça change...

The Decalogue has logic and sagacity of comprehensive and indeed supernatural nature also, once it is understood fully, in its full context.

Not that the Decalogue and six hundred other commandments made as much difference to the Israelites as might be expected, because, as mentioned, they often found it too hard to apply their laws. Mosaic Law was set up as the moral ideal in its contemporary setting. It was intended to show precisely that most of humanity does not have respect for itself; or, to express it another way, that people do not value a clear conscience. It was called a 'schoolmaster' to lead to a messiah who would motivate to treat others as one would wish to be treated, with love, which looks after one's best interests. As declared by him, that messiah did not come for all, but for those who were troubled by their consciences and wished to have them cleared more than they wanted anything else. Those, according to the respective lore, are ever a minority.