If God Exists, Is It Our God?

Godfree · **Joined:** Sat Jul 03, 2010 10:01 am **Posts:** 840

Sob ,, two posts in a row , that just repeat a post and ad very little ,
no contribution to the debate , or attempt to answer anything ,just playing this game of hide and seek ,
Chaz is nearly as bad but we usually do get some sort of answer ,
strange but it seems the honest people here are the Atheists ,
the theists seem to be hiding behind philosophy , or what they call philosophy ,
I wonder if thats true of society as well ,
the religious amongst us , are the least honest ,,???

Mike Strand · **Posted:** Thu Jan 12, 2012 4:48 pm

Maybe believers in God are hesitant to state their views in a philosophy forum, where sceptics and agnostics and the like abound. The general subject here, however, is "Philosophy of Religion", and I hope the theists or pantheists or universal salvationists among us may at least point out the benefits to themselves of believing.

We know nasty stuff has been done by human beings to each other, a lot of it in the name of a particular God or religious creed, and a lot of it in an effort to "stamp out" God. But what about the personal aspects of belief or disbelief?

Is there a moral principle that can stand as good for human beings to observe, with or without a religion? -- with or without a belief in God? -- with our without the existence of God? Is there an ethical code, whether viewed as merely practical or as God-given, that can be accepted by either side, and agreed-upon as good for humanity?

chaz wyman · **Joined:** Fri Mar 12, 2010 7:31 pm **Posts:** 10592

Mike Strand wrote:

Maybe believers in God are hesitant to state their views in a philosophy forum, where sceptics and agnostics and the like abound. The general subject here, however, is "Philosophy of Religion", and I hope the theists or pantheists or universal salvationists among us may at least point out the benefits to themselves of believing.

We know nasty stuff has been done by human beings to each other, a lot of it in the name of a particular God or religious creed, and a lot of it in an effort to "stamp out" God. But what about the personal aspects of belief or disbelief?

Is there a moral principle that can stand as good for human beings to observe, with or without a religion? -- with or without a belief in God? -- with our without the existence of God? Is there an ethical code, whether viewed as merely practical or as God-given, that can be accepted by either side, and agreed-upon as good for humanity?

No where has any harm been done in trying to "stamp out" god where the real situation is not stamping it out but replacing god with a similar thing, or another god.

SpheresOfBalance · **Posted:** Fri Jan 13, 2012 2:10 pm

Godfree wrote:

Sob ,, two posts in a row , that just repeat a post and ad very little ,
no contribution to the debate , or attempt to answer anything ,just playing this game of hide and seek ,
Chaz is nearly as bad but we usually do get some sort of answer ,
strange but it seems the honest people here are the Atheists ,
the theists seem to be hiding behind philosophy , or what they call philosophy ,
I wonder if thats true of society as well ,
the religious amongst us , are the least honest ,,???

Because you try and goad me, man up and I'll think about it.

Godfree · **Joined:** Sat Jul 03, 2010 10:01 am **Posts:** 840

I goad you ,???
and what do you expect in a philosophy forum ,
I'm a guitarist , improvise live on stage , lead guitar ,jazz fusion ,
my brains way ahead of my typing speed,
I think the best thing we can do for each other , is to just spit it out ,
we may embarace ourselves from time to time ,
even be corrected shock horror ,
but to avoid giving an honest answer , to save face ,
surely suggests a lack of faith in what it is that we believe ,
I'm proud of who and what I am ,
and happy to give an honest answer to anything you like ,
I'm an open book , write in me if you can,,???

SpheresOfBalance · **Posted:** Mon Jan 16, 2012 5:13 pm

Godfree wrote:

I goad you ,???
and what do you expect in a philosophy forum ,
I'm a guitarist , improvise live on stage , lead guitar ,jazz fusion ,
my brains way ahead of my typing speed,
I think the best thing we can do for each other , is to just spit it out ,
we may embarace ourselves from time to time ,
even be corrected shock horror ,
but to avoid giving an honest answer , to save face ,
surely suggests a lack of faith in what it is that we believe ,
I'm proud of who and what I am ,
and happy to give an honest answer to anything you like ,
I'm an open book , write in me if you can,,???

I expect some intelligence! One cannot hear, but a mere fraction of my understanding, and then state what I am, or what I believe, only a fool believes that. So a true philosopher would be smart enough to consider this, and approach with query, instead of labeling through declarative statements. Clearly then your attempt at putting words into my mouth and thoughts, are a means to goad me into defense, a means to elicit response, which is child's play. You obviously have me confused with someone else. Respect the person and ask questions or make non defaming statements. Act like an adult and you shall be treated in kind! I refuse to play a child's pissing game!

Of course it could also mean you're a fool, and know no better.

Take your pick.

Godfree · **Joined:** Sat Jul 03, 2010 10:01 am **Posts:** 840

SpheresOfBalance wrote:

Godfree wrote:

I goad you ,???
and what do you expect in a philosophy forum ,
I'm a guitarist , improvise live on stage , lead guitar ,jazz fusion ,
my brains way ahead of my typing speed,
I think the best thing we can do for each other , is to just spit it out ,
we may embarace ourselves from time to time ,
even be corrected shock horror ,
but to avoid giving an honest answer , to save face ,
surely suggests a lack of faith in what it is that we believe ,
I'm proud of who and what I am ,
and happy to give an honest answer to anything you like ,
I'm an open book , write in me if you can,,???

I expect some intelligence! One cannot hear, but a mere fraction of my understanding, and then state what I am, or what I believe, only a fool believes that. So a true philosopher would be smart enough to consider this, and approach with query, instead of labeling through declarative statements. Clearly then your attempt at putting words into my mouth and thoughts, are a means to goad me into defense, a means to elicit response, which is child's play. You obviously have me confused with someone else. Respect the person and ask questions or make non defaming statements. Act like an adult and you shall be treated in kind! I refuse to play a child's pissing game!

Of course it could also mean you're a fool, and know no better.

Take your pick.

The point I was trying to make , was if it's just a post copied and a one liner at the bottom , why should I bother writing a paragraph to get a one line response ,?? you did make some effort and attempt to reason with me on that occasion , thats all I ask ,you may consider my methodology a bit clumsy or ignorant , but I am asking for clarification ,
by redefining what you have said , I'm trying to use it in an example ,
to test out the theory in a hypothetical argument ,
you probably fail to realize I say things like, so at the beginning of a question , in other words , does this mean ,???I ask a lot of questions ,but I'm not sure I assume you are things you are not , more I ask you if you mean this or that ,
I have on many posts suggested people say what religion they are ,
I don't get into this hide and seek , I'm trying to be as real as possible ,
and in return get a lot of people playing hide and seek ,,,
who are the children here ,,???

SpheresOfBalance · **Posted:** Tue Jan 17, 2012 8:36 am

Godfree wrote:

SpheresOfBalance wrote:

Godfree wrote:

I goad you ,???
and what do you expect in a philosophy forum ,
I'm a guitarist , improvise live on stage , lead guitar ,jazz fusion ,
my brains way ahead of my typing speed,
I think the best thing we can do for each other , is to just spit it out ,
we may embarace ourselves from time to time ,
even be corrected shock horror ,
but to avoid giving an honest answer , to save face ,
surely suggests a lack of faith in what it is that we believe ,
I'm proud of who and what I am ,
and happy to give an honest answer to anything you like ,
I'm an open book , write in me if you can,,???

I expect some intelligence! One cannot hear, but a mere fraction of my understanding, and then state what I am, or what I believe, only a fool believes that. So a true philosopher would be smart enough to consider this, and approach with query, instead of labeling through declarative statements. Clearly then your attempt at putting words into my mouth and thoughts, are a means to goad me into defense, a means to elicit response, which is child's play. You obviously have me confused with someone else. Respect the person and ask questions or make non defaming statements. Act like an adult and you shall be treated in kind! I refuse to play a child's pissing game!

Of course it could also mean you're a fool, and know no better.

Take your pick.

The point I was trying to make , was if it's just a post copied and a one liner at the bottom , why should I bother writing a paragraph to get a one line response ,?? you did make some effort and attempt to reason with me on that occasion , thats all I ask ,you may consider my methodology a bit clumsy or ignorant , but I am asking for clarification ,
by redefining what you have said , I'm trying to use it in an example ,
to test out the theory in a hypothetical argument ,
you probably fail to realize I say things like, so at the beginning of a question , in other words , does this mean ,???I ask a lot of questions ,but I'm not sure I assume you are things you are not , more I ask you if you mean this or that ,
I have on many posts suggested people say what religion they are ,
I don't get into this hide and seek , I'm trying to be as real as possible ,
and in return get a lot of people playing hide and seek ,,,
who are the children here ,,???

OK, I apologize if I've judged you too harshly. I don't like to judge, but then again, I don't like being treated with disdain.

I just see that statements of this sort:

Godfree wrote:

don't want to put your head on the block for me to chop off

are not required as their truth remains to be seen, as such it sounds like goading to me despite the "???," that you intend to somehow soften the blow of an unfair presumption.

The same thing applies here:

Godfree wrote:

for you to suggest there could be such a thing ,usually means you want such a thing to be true

Even though you say "usually" meant to soften, your intent is obviously meant to goad me into submission, so that I'll comply and reply, this is insulting, as you do not know me.

OK, I shall drop the matter. All I ask is that you try and not attempt to goad me with unsupported assertions of my nature or abilities or your supposed superiority, as they all remain to be seen. I would go so far as to say that they are impossible to assert in the first place, as an absolute anything, probably depends upon some distant future understanding.

So if you care to continue...

Godfree wrote:

SOB , "but I believe there could be a creator"
well don't stop there , fill in the missing pieces for us ,
what form does this creator take,
I'm not sure, but I believe it to be related to electromotive force.

how did it come to be ,,?????
That's a good question, that can only be answered in the end of humanities ignorance, assuming we can outlive our selfishness and come to a time when we can circumnavigate the universe, because only then could that question possibly be answered with any degree of certainty.

can it manipulate things in the real world ,???
Again, see previous answer.

what was it's role in reality as we know it today , what was it's contribution,
In a word, creation!

how did it do it , where does it get it's power from ,???
See: "That's a good question," from above, again.

fuel , anything that does things uses fuel ,
See: "That's a good question," from above, again.

so why would a god/creator be any different ,???
In a word, Relativity!

all powerful , would require all fuel ,lots of energy being transfered ,
In a word, Relativity!

but let me guess ,, your prepared to throw science out the window,
in order for this creator model to be accepted ,????
There goes your goading again! Unfounded claims as to my intellect, designed to elicit an emotional response.

This then, is the reason I do not want to talk to you, try and play it straight for a change, without inference, that's meant to be derogatory. You shall find, that I'm much more receptive!

One last catch all phrase, that tends to answer those points you made above, that seemed to go unanswered. I submit that it could be folly, to ascribe physics as understood by man, to that which could be responsible for creating those very physics, as if to say that a creator would necessarily be bound, by what it wields as a solution for the creation.

Godfree · **Joined:** Sat Jul 03, 2010 10:01 am **Posts:** 840

Now Sob ,
how about I just reassure you that I don't hate you or dislike you ,
I'm not here to belittle you or make you feel small or wrong ,
I'm not here to shoot the messenger ,
I'm here to shoot the message ,
you are not the message , you may be the messenger and feel a duty to defend the message , good ,but don't get confused as to who's in the sights ,
if we don't put out counter points or different points of view we have nothing to argue against or no reason to shout about sanity , if the insane aren't on the lose ,
and once again , I'm GOADING/ a bit of cheek , bit of slap and tickle ,
man up and relax , your perfectly safe , I'm not really a monster ,
and coming to gobble you up

SpheresOfBalance · **Posted:** Thu Jan 19, 2012 6:25 pm

Godfree wrote:

Now Sob ,
how about I just reassure you that I don't hate you or dislike you ,
I'm not here to belittle you or make you feel small or wrong ,
I'm not here to shoot the messenger ,
I'm here to shoot the message ,
you are not the message , you may be the messenger and feel a duty to defend the message , good ,but don't get confused as to who's in the sights ,
if we don't put out counter points or different points of view we have nothing to argue against or no reason to shout about sanity , if the insane aren't on the lose ,
and once again , I'm GOADING/ a bit of cheek , bit of slap and tickle ,
man up and relax , your perfectly safe , I'm not really a monster ,
and coming to gobble you up

No big deal, at 54 with a closet full of emotional baggage I accumulated as a youngster and now totally alone for over 2 years, I sometimes find I'm more sensitive to criticism of that which is all I seem to have left, my thoughts!

No worries, mate! (<--been to Australia ;-)

) Do you care to respond to what I said about a creator in my last, or not?

Keep in mind I've only seen the possibility as far as I have. And it's just a hypothesis of the possibility of a creator, It would seem that I'm an agnostic by some definitions.

Godfree · **Joined:** Sat Jul 03, 2010 10:01 am **Posts:** 840

SpheresOfBalance wrote:

Godfree wrote:

Now Sob ,
how about I just reassure you that I don't hate you or dislike you ,
I'm not here to belittle you or make you feel small or wrong ,
I'm not here to shoot the messenger ,
I'm here to shoot the message ,
you are not the message , you may be the messenger and feel a duty to defend the message , good ,but don't get confused as to who's in the sights ,
if we don't put out counter points or different points of view we have nothing to argue against or no reason to shout about sanity , if the insane aren't on the lose ,
and once again , I'm GOADING/ a bit of cheek , bit of slap and tickle ,
man up and relax , your perfectly safe , I'm not really a monster ,
and coming to gobble you up

No big deal, at 54 with a closet full of emotional baggage I accumulated as a youngster and now totally alone for over 2 years, I sometimes find I'm more sensitive to criticism of that which is all I seem to have left, my thoughts!

No worries, mate! (<--been to Australia ;-)

) Do you care to respond to what I said about a creator in my last, or not?

Keep in mind I've only seen the possibility as far as I have. And it's just a hypothesis of the possibility of a creator, It would seem that I'm an agnostic by some definitions.

Electromotive force ,,???
is that even a real thing , what exactly is that ,
break it down for us , electro magnetic is what we have from the spinning core of our earth , gravity is what drives the universe ,
whats electromotive ,,???
Surely we can use the same argument against the existence of god ,
as we can about the Loch Ness monster ,
one is not enough , there would have to be a whole family to keep a breeding population going , to breed the next god ,???
if your going to say god existed for infinity,
you have opened up a can of contradiction ,
if god existed for infinity , there was no beginning ,
if god always was , thats time being measured , by god ,
time existed before the bb , cos god was there ,,???
how many contradictions do you want,,,???

SpheresOfBalance · **Posted:** Sun Jan 22, 2012 6:27 pm

Godfree wrote:

SpheresOfBalance wrote:

Godfree wrote:

Now Sob ,
how about I just reassure you that I don't hate you or dislike you ,
I'm not here to belittle you or make you feel small or wrong ,
I'm not here to shoot the messenger ,
I'm here to shoot the message ,
you are not the message , you may be the messenger and feel a duty to defend the message , good ,but don't get confused as to who's in the sights ,
if we don't put out counter points or different points of view we have nothing to argue against or no reason to shout about sanity , if the insane aren't on the lose ,
and once again , I'm GOADING/ a bit of cheek , bit of slap and tickle ,
man up and relax , your perfectly safe , I'm not really a monster ,
and coming to gobble you up

No big deal, at 54 with a closet full of emotional baggage I accumulated as a youngster and now totally alone for over 2 years, I sometimes find I'm more sensitive to criticism of that which is all I seem to have left, my thoughts!

No worries, mate! (<--been to Australia ;-)

) Do you care to respond to what I said about a creator in my last, or not?

Keep in mind I've only seen the possibility as far as I have. And it's just a hypothesis of the possibility of a creator, It would seem that I'm an agnostic by some definitions.

Electromotive force ,,???
is that even a real thing , what exactly is that ,
break it down for us , electro magnetic is what we have from the spinning core of our earth , gravity is what drives the universe ,
whats electromotive ,,???
Surely we can use the same argument against the existence of god ,
as we can about the Loch Ness monster ,
one is not enough , there would have to be a whole family to keep a breeding population going , to breed the next god ,???
if your going to say god existed for infinity,
you have opened up a can of contradiction ,
if god existed for infinity , there was no beginning ,
if god always was , thats time being measured , by god ,
time existed before the bb , cos god was there ,,???

how many contradictions do you want,,,???

Why in the hell do you continually talk of this GOD, you seem to be stuck in a god box. Think outside the box of the presupposition of the classic god model. I've already told you I hate mans god, it is an archaic man made story where man models a supernatural being after himself as a regulatory figurehead to control the masses, supposedly, for their own good, but is ultimately used for the good of the ones spinning the tale.

For the last time I do not believe in a religion or mans god!

I'm talking about the theory of a creator of the universe, not no fucking god nor no fucking religion, goodness fucking gracious!

The forces that I believe are one, that are responsible for all that is held together in the universe, is a part of the creators hands, so to speak, there is no fucking church, there is no fucking communication, there is no fucking interaction, there is no life after death in the sense that most see it. it's just that the borrowed things that make up each individual including that spark that binds (the creator) go back to their origins, pure and simple.

Of course it's just a theory where the crux is that all was designed as opposed to being that of random chance.

Godfree · **Joined:** Sat Jul 03, 2010 10:01 am **Posts:** 840

Sob ,
so what was electromotive again,,??????????????????????????

SpheresOfBalance · **Posted:** Sun Jan 22, 2012 8:29 pm

Godfree wrote:

Sob ,
so what was electromotive again,,??????????????????????????
Look it up, Wikipedia only had a 24 hour black out and that was days ago.
I did reiterate, but you missed it as usual.

Godfree · **Joined:** Sat Jul 03, 2010 10:01 am **Posts:** 840

SpheresOfBalance wrote:

Godfree wrote:

Sob ,
so what was electromotive again,,??????????????????????????
Look it up, Wikipedia only had a 24 hour black out and that was days ago.
I did reiterate, but you missed it as usual.

Ok so you have some electrical power or current you feel is there for the taking ,
but that is only a small part of the equation ,
if we are to use us as an example , we have electrical current ,which we use to send and receive messages from our muscles and different parts of our brain ,but the brain tissue , stores the memory , and the electrical current
accesses it like the ram on your computer accesses the hard drive, so what would god store it's info on , all knowing would need massive storage banks to hold all the all ,
I can't see any way it would be possible without a physical address to hold the info , and store it for use .
So then we could look at a non thinking god ,
god as the gravity that drives the universe or the light that life needs ,
we could see god as lots of things , but they already have names ,
so why would we re name it god , gravity is gravity and light is light ,
you can see a part of the universe as a god ,
you can call it anything you like ,
but there is nothing supernatural or godlike about gravity or light ,
is there anything about the universe that you think ,
cannot be attributed to natural forces and explained by science ,,???

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