Philosophy Now Forum

Indeed, it is only the manner of my death which I might 'fear', as such. the idea of being dead - is a contradiction in itself. You cannot BE dead, death is not being, and like David Hume said, you should no more fear that state as you would when you contemplate the eternity of time before you were born.
Yet I would live as long as i can, and the fact of death does render all human action meaningless.
When I had cancer 3 years back, I had plenty of time to contemplate my demise - I know it is going to be fucking horrible, if (more likely when) my cancer returns; the treatment was bad enough and the dying is not going to be pleasant.
But those who accept death without any qualms at all are not really living to enjoy life.

I defer to your view of death, and sorry to hear about your struggle with cancer. Accepting approaching death without qualms (not raging "against the dying of the light") isn't healthy, nor is it life-affirming, I think, except maybe in the special case that one is so close to it or it's so painful that it is seen as a blessing.

Vultures , circle to gain altitude ,
it's like taking the lift to the top floor ,
and then they can use that height to glide great distances
Death , a challenge Mike ,
accept that death is final , comes to terms with that being the end ,
and then explain why we need god again ,
surely god is just the enabler that makes this dream possible ,
if you can give up the dream , you no longer need god ,,!!

Poetic and thought-provoking, Godfree.

I think it may be even harder for the one(s) left behind -- for those who witness the death of a loved one -- than for the one dying. I think some people dread seeing a loved one die more than their own demise. Maybe that is the main force behind the hope for eternal life with a loving god -- so that one can be with dear departed ones again. Hope is a powerful sustainer of the good life, it appears to me, whether there is a basis in fact for that hope or not.

Ignorance, a challenge Godfree...

Accept that you don't know what death is or isn't. Come to terms with the limits of knowing. If you can give up the dream that you know something nobody on earth knows, you no longer need atheism!

There's a good reason why theism and atheism share almost exactly the same spelling. They are almost exactly the same thing.

A thought well worth quoting, from Typist:


And if you can admit that hopes and dreams of others can be comforting to them, and if they don't force them upon you, you no longer have to resent either atheism or theism.

I'm in remission. There are no guarantees with cancer treatment. When you are in treatment you hope for a light at the end of the tunnel. When its over and they tell you there is not further evidence of cancer what you get is relief but you also get a longer tunnel, if you know what I mean.
I had quite a severe treatment, and that has screwed up my neck and throat. Although its been 3 years now, I still have pain and discomfort which can seem like the cancer is back. Despite that I do tend to get more out of life.

Exactly like god and dog - exactly the same thing.

Chaz:
I'm moved and grateful that you've told me (and us) about your struggle with cancer. My mother was diagnosed with stage 3 lymphoma about four years ago and elected against chemotherapy (she just turned 89 this year). She is happy and sets a good example for the whole family of how to enjoy life. So far, she appears to be in remission. It's possible she was mis-diagnosed when they took the large lump out of her intestine. But she has no illusions about what may lie ahead.

Nevertheless, her hopes and dreams and love of life sustain her, and she doesn't try to preach or force her optimistic beliefs upon anyone else.

If we're going to talk about death, here's one of my pet peeves.

When someone is dying, everybody crowds around and insists on treating them like a victim.

In part, it's understandable, because the dying person is probably afraid and in pain, so we want to express sympathy.

But what we're also doing is shoving a message at them that says something horrible is happening to you, everything has gone wrong, it's all over, you're going to lose out, you are a victim etc. How is this helpful???

Childbirth can be pretty awful too, but we don't pore a bunch of negativity upon the mother to make it worse. We sympathize with the pain, but we focus mostly on the coming child, and how great it's going to be etc.

When people are dying, we should bring the pain pills, but the party hats too. Given that we have no idea what's coming next, and can do nothing about it anyway, the logical and kind thing to do is assume the best with as much enthusiasm as the situation will allow.

Regrettably, that's usually not much. One of the realities of death is that as the dying person begins to lose their social leverage, those around them usually immediately rush in to fill the power vacuum. And so the event becomes about them.

But nobody can say this out loud, or even think it, so the usual complex layers of lies that accompany life become part of death as well.

I met some pretty brave folks whilst I was sitting around having that evil stuff pumped through my body. I learned that beig old can be its own defence against cancer. Your bodily systems are so slow to repair that the cancer can be weak. This seems quite paradoxical, ,but no when you realise that cancer is really yourself attacking yourself.
Good luck to her and send her my best wishes

"Everyone" and "we" - it s that royal wee again. Typist generalising his own narrow experience to the rest of the human race.
Power vacuum - are you kidding - what kind of family do you have?

Ok, you must be right. It must be only my family where people gather around the dying person and treat the death like a sad tragic event. Now that I think about it, of course nobody else does this.

And don't forge the bit about moving in on the 'power vacuum'!
Not all families are will-chasing Machiavellian pricks like you.

Any way I thought you had (once again) promised to fuck off? Why not piss off and find a web-site to advertise your loan-shark business on?

Well done typist , on the surface of things it seems like a tit for tat ,
but really they are not similar at all .
we all know what death is , the only point of contention ,
is what if anything exists after death ,
I'm suggesting come to terms with knowing reality ,
I;m not asking Mike to accept things we or I can't prove ,
I'm asking him to accept nothing he or we can't prove ,
please quote the passage where I say,"I know something nobody on earth knows" ,
Atheism will no longer be needed , when theism finally dies ,,,!!!