If God Exists, Is It Our God?

[chaz wyman]

Godfree,

You know I really love to read your presumptions, they tend to make me laugh really hard. I can feel the endorphins surging.

Thanks!

In other words. Stick your fingers in your ears and scrweem!
Why not actually answer Godfree's questions.

The idea of a creator solves no problem and answers no question.

So how could there be one?

[Godfree]

Godfree,

You know I really love to read your presumptions, they tend to make me laugh really hard. I can feel the endorphins surging.

Thanks!

In other words. Stick your fingers in your ears and scrweem!
Why not actually answer Godfree's questions.

The idea of a creator solves no problem and answers no question.

So how could there be one?

I agree Chaz , we should make an honest and open attempt to answer ,
I am an open book far more than most ,
sharing your thoughts and beliefs is not easy for some people ,
especially if their belief system includes ,
mythology , superstition , religion ,or any other hocus pocus nonsense ,
it's very hard to try and be an intellectual , spouting nonsense ,
if you want to impress somebody with the size of your intellect ,
imaginary beings with imaginary powers ,
doesn't really do it ,,!!!!!

[SpheresOfBalance]

Godfree,

You know I really love to read your presumptions, they tend to make me laugh really hard. I can feel the endorphins surging.

Thanks!

In other words. Stick your fingers in your ears and scrweem!
Why not actually answer Godfree's questions.

The idea of a creator solves no problem and answers no question.

So how could there be one?

I agree Chaz , we should make an honest and open attempt to answer ,
I am an open book far more than most ,
sharing your thoughts and beliefs is not easy for some people ,
especially if their belief system includes ,
mythology , superstition , religion ,or any other hocus pocus nonsense ,
it's very hard to try and be an intellectual , spouting nonsense ,
if you want to impress somebody with the size of your intellect ,
imaginary beings with imaginary powers ,
doesn't really do it ,,!!!!!

I won't spend, what obviously shall be wasted time, and instead laugh, for the following two reasons:

don't want to put your head on the block for me to chop off

for you to suggest there could be such a thing ,usually means you want such a thing to be true

[chaz wyman]

In other words. Stick your fingers in your ears and scrweem!
Why not actually answer Godfree's questions.

The idea of a creator solves no problem and answers no question.

So how could there be one?

I agree Chaz , we should make an honest and open attempt to answer ,
I am an open book far more than most ,
sharing your thoughts and beliefs is not easy for some people ,
especially if their belief system includes ,
mythology , superstition , religion ,or any other hocus pocus nonsense ,
it's very hard to try and be an intellectual , spouting nonsense ,
if you want to impress somebody with the size of your intellect ,
imaginary beings with imaginary powers ,
doesn't really do it ,,!!!!!

I won't spend, what obviously shall be wasted time, and instead laugh, for the following two reasons:

don't want to put your head on the block for me to chop off

for you to suggest there could be such a thing ,usually means you want such a thing to be true

It is no laughing matter but SoB really wants there to be a god.

[Godfree]

Wants there to be a god or ,,
wants people to accept that the fantasy in his head , is real ,
often religious people say something like ,"thats for me and god to know" ,
or words to that effect ,in other words ,
only sob and god can know the essence and truth to his godlyness ,
that only god should judge us ,
he who is without sin should cast the first stone,
like a persons relationship with god is sacred , and we are not qualified ,
to pass judgment on such a thing ,,???
basically , back off , religion is in an impossible position to defend ,
so instead they will challenge our ability to know ,
to question our sources and attack the question rather than ,
admit that dreaming about gods and heaven ,
don't make it real ,,,!!!

[chaz wyman]

Wants there to be a god or ,,
wants people to accept that the fantasy in his head , is real ,
often religious people say something like ,"thats for me and god to know" ,
or words to that effect ,in other words ,
only sob and god can know the essence and truth to his godlyness ,
that only god should judge us ,
he who is without sin should cast the first stone,
like a persons relationship with god is sacred , and we are not qualified ,
to pass judgment on such a thing ,,???
basically , back off , religion is in an impossible position to defend ,
so instead they will challenge our ability to know ,
to question our sources and attack the question rather than ,
admit that dreaming about gods and heaven ,
don't make it real ,,,!!!

That would imply that he is merely appealing to his own consciousness.
In fact he is making a god of his own construction - the same as everyone else.

[SpheresOfBalance]

Wants there to be a god or ,,
wants people to accept that the fantasy in his head , is real ,
often religious people say something like ,"thats for me and god to know" ,
or words to that effect ,in other words ,
only sob and god can know the essence and truth to his godlyness ,
that only god should judge us ,
he who is without sin should cast the first stone,
like a persons relationship with god is sacred , and we are not qualified ,
to pass judgment on such a thing ,,???
basically , back off , religion is in an impossible position to defend ,
so instead they will challenge our ability to know ,
to question our sources and attack the question rather than ,
admit that dreaming about gods and heaven ,
don't make it real ,,,!!!

It would seem that you think me, as the adolescents that would attempt to goad me into answering, such as some others here that tend to suck their hat to attention, in fact you can only respectfully request! I'll be at the standby!

[Godfree]

Sob ,, two posts in a row , that just repeat a post and ad very little ,
no contribution to the debate , or attempt to answer anything ,just playing this game of hide and seek ,
Chaz is nearly as bad but we usually do get some sort of answer ,
strange but it seems the honest people here are the Atheists ,
the theists seem to be hiding behind philosophy , or what they call philosophy ,
I wonder if thats true of society as well ,
the religious amongst us , are the least honest ,,???

[Mike Strand]

Maybe believers in God are hesitant to state their views in a philosophy forum, where sceptics and agnostics and the like abound. The general subject here, however, is "Philosophy of Religion", and I hope the theists or pantheists or universal salvationists among us may at least point out the benefits to themselves of believing.

We know nasty stuff has been done by human beings to each other, a lot of it in the name of a particular God or religious creed, and a lot of it in an effort to "stamp out" God. But what about the personal aspects of belief or disbelief?

Is there a moral principle that can stand as good for human beings to observe, with or without a religion? -- with or without a belief in God? -- with our without the existence of God? Is there an ethical code, whether viewed as merely practical or as God-given, that can be accepted by either side, and agreed-upon as good for humanity?

[chaz wyman]

Maybe believers in God are hesitant to state their views in a philosophy forum, where sceptics and agnostics and the like abound. The general subject here, however, is "Philosophy of Religion", and I hope the theists or pantheists or universal salvationists among us may at least point out the benefits to themselves of believing.

We know nasty stuff has been done by human beings to each other, a lot of it in the name of a particular God or religious creed, and a lot of it in an effort to "stamp out" God. But what about the personal aspects of belief or disbelief?

Is there a moral principle that can stand as good for human beings to observe, with or without a religion? -- with or without a belief in God? -- with our without the existence of God? Is there an ethical code, whether viewed as merely practical or as God-given, that can be accepted by either side, and agreed-upon as good for humanity?

No where has any harm been done in trying to "stamp out" god where the real situation is not stamping it out but replacing god with a similar thing, or another god.

[SpheresOfBalance]

Sob ,, two posts in a row , that just repeat a post and ad very little ,
no contribution to the debate , or attempt to answer anything ,just playing this game of hide and seek ,
Chaz is nearly as bad but we usually do get some sort of answer ,
strange but it seems the honest people here are the Atheists ,
the theists seem to be hiding behind philosophy , or what they call philosophy ,
I wonder if thats true of society as well ,
the religious amongst us , are the least honest ,,???

Because you try and goad me, man up and I'll think about it.

[Godfree]

I goad you ,???
and what do you expect in a philosophy forum ,
I'm a guitarist , improvise live on stage , lead guitar ,jazz fusion ,
my brains way ahead of my typing speed,
I think the best thing we can do for each other , is to just spit it out ,
we may embarace ourselves from time to time ,
even be corrected shock horror ,
but to avoid giving an honest answer , to save face ,
surely suggests a lack of faith in what it is that we believe ,
I'm proud of who and what I am ,
and happy to give an honest answer to anything you like ,
I'm an open book , write in me if you can,,???

[SpheresOfBalance]

I goad you ,???
and what do you expect in a philosophy forum ,
I'm a guitarist , improvise live on stage , lead guitar ,jazz fusion ,
my brains way ahead of my typing speed,
I think the best thing we can do for each other , is to just spit it out ,
we may embarace ourselves from time to time ,
even be corrected shock horror ,
but to avoid giving an honest answer , to save face ,
surely suggests a lack of faith in what it is that we believe ,
I'm proud of who and what I am ,
and happy to give an honest answer to anything you like ,
I'm an open book , write in me if you can,,???

I expect some intelligence! One cannot hear, but a mere fraction of my understanding, and then state what I am, or what I believe, only a fool believes that. So a true philosopher would be smart enough to consider this, and approach with query, instead of labeling through declarative statements. Clearly then your attempt at putting words into my mouth and thoughts, are a means to goad me into defense, a means to elicit response, which is child's play. You obviously have me confused with someone else. Respect the person and ask questions or make non defaming statements. Act like an adult and you shall be treated in kind! I refuse to play a child's pissing game!

Of course it could also mean you're a fool, and know no better.

Take your pick.

[Godfree]

I goad you ,???
and what do you expect in a philosophy forum ,
I'm a guitarist , improvise live on stage , lead guitar ,jazz fusion ,
my brains way ahead of my typing speed,
I think the best thing we can do for each other , is to just spit it out ,
we may embarace ourselves from time to time ,
even be corrected shock horror ,
but to avoid giving an honest answer , to save face ,
surely suggests a lack of faith in what it is that we believe ,
I'm proud of who and what I am ,
and happy to give an honest answer to anything you like ,
I'm an open book , write in me if you can,,???

I expect some intelligence! One cannot hear, but a mere fraction of my understanding, and then state what I am, or what I believe, only a fool believes that. So a true philosopher would be smart enough to consider this, and approach with query, instead of labeling through declarative statements. Clearly then your attempt at putting words into my mouth and thoughts, are a means to goad me into defense, a means to elicit response, which is child's play. You obviously have me confused with someone else. Respect the person and ask questions or make non defaming statements. Act like an adult and you shall be treated in kind! I refuse to play a child's pissing game!

Of course it could also mean you're a fool, and know no better.

Take your pick.

The point I was trying to make , was if it's just a post copied and a one liner at the bottom , why should I bother writing a paragraph to get a one line response ,?? you did make some effort and attempt to reason with me on that occasion , thats all I ask ,you may consider my methodology a bit clumsy or ignorant , but I am asking for clarification ,
by redefining what you have said , I'm trying to use it in an example ,
to test out the theory in a hypothetical argument ,
you probably fail to realize I say things like, so at the beginning of a question , in other words , does this mean ,???I ask a lot of questions ,but I'm not sure I assume you are things you are not , more I ask you if you mean this or that ,
I have on many posts suggested people say what religion they are ,
I don't get into this hide and seek , I'm trying to be as real as possible ,
and in return get a lot of people playing hide and seek ,,,
who are the children here ,,???

[SpheresOfBalance]

I goad you ,???
and what do you expect in a philosophy forum ,
I'm a guitarist , improvise live on stage , lead guitar ,jazz fusion ,
my brains way ahead of my typing speed,
I think the best thing we can do for each other , is to just spit it out ,
we may embarace ourselves from time to time ,
even be corrected shock horror ,
but to avoid giving an honest answer , to save face ,
surely suggests a lack of faith in what it is that we believe ,
I'm proud of who and what I am ,
and happy to give an honest answer to anything you like ,
I'm an open book , write in me if you can,,???

I expect some intelligence! One cannot hear, but a mere fraction of my understanding, and then state what I am, or what I believe, only a fool believes that. So a true philosopher would be smart enough to consider this, and approach with query, instead of labeling through declarative statements. Clearly then your attempt at putting words into my mouth and thoughts, are a means to goad me into defense, a means to elicit response, which is child's play. You obviously have me confused with someone else. Respect the person and ask questions or make non defaming statements. Act like an adult and you shall be treated in kind! I refuse to play a child's pissing game!

Of course it could also mean you're a fool, and know no better.

Take your pick.

The point I was trying to make , was if it's just a post copied and a one liner at the bottom , why should I bother writing a paragraph to get a one line response ,?? you did make some effort and attempt to reason with me on that occasion , thats all I ask ,you may consider my methodology a bit clumsy or ignorant , but I am asking for clarification ,
by redefining what you have said , I'm trying to use it in an example ,
to test out the theory in a hypothetical argument ,
you probably fail to realize I say things like, so at the beginning of a question , in other words , does this mean ,???I ask a lot of questions ,but I'm not sure I assume you are things you are not , more I ask you if you mean this or that ,
I have on many posts suggested people say what religion they are ,
I don't get into this hide and seek , I'm trying to be as real as possible ,
and in return get a lot of people playing hide and seek ,,,
who are the children here ,,???

OK, I apologize if I've judged you too harshly. I don't like to judge, but then again, I don't like being treated with disdain.

I just see that statements of this sort:

don't want to put your head on the block for me to chop off

are not required as their truth remains to be seen, as such it sounds like goading to me despite the "???," that you intend to somehow soften the blow of an unfair presumption.

The same thing applies here:

for you to suggest there could be such a thing ,usually means you want such a thing to be true

Even though you say "usually" meant to soften, your intent is obviously meant to goad me into submission, so that I'll comply and reply, this is insulting, as you do not know me.

OK, I shall drop the matter. All I ask is that you try and not attempt to goad me with unsupported assertions of my nature or abilities or your supposed superiority, as they all remain to be seen. I would go so far as to say that they are impossible to assert in the first place, as an absolute anything, probably depends upon some distant future understanding.

So if you care to continue...

SOB , "but I believe there could be a creator"
well don't stop there , fill in the missing pieces for us ,
what form does this creator take,
I'm not sure, but I believe it to be related to electromotive force.

how did it come to be ,,?????
That's a good question, that can only be answered in the end of humanities ignorance, assuming we can outlive our selfishness and come to a time when we can circumnavigate the universe, because only then could that question possibly be answered with any degree of certainty.

can it manipulate things in the real world ,???
Again, see previous answer.

what was it's role in reality as we know it today , what was it's contribution,
In a word, creation!

how did it do it , where does it get it's power from ,???
See: "That's a good question," from above, again.

fuel , anything that does things uses fuel ,
See: "That's a good question," from above, again.

so why would a god/creator be any different ,???
In a word, Relativity!

all powerful , would require all fuel ,lots of energy being transfered ,
In a word, Relativity!

but let me guess ,, your prepared to throw science out the window,
in order for this creator model to be accepted ,????
There goes your goading again! Unfounded claims as to my intellect, designed to elicit an emotional response.

This then, is the reason I do not want to talk to you, try and play it straight for a change, without inference, that's meant to be derogatory. You shall find, that I'm much more receptive!

One last catch all phrase, that tends to answer those points you made above, that seemed to go unanswered. I submit that it could be folly, to ascribe physics as understood by man, to that which could be responsible for creating those very physics, as if to say that a creator would necessarily be bound, by what it wields as a solution for the creation.