The friendly atheist... not everyone is a barking dog

Is there a God? If so, what is She like?

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uwot
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Re: The friendly atheist... not everyone is a barking dog

Post by uwot » Sun Oct 08, 2017 9:26 pm

Immanuel Can wrote:
Sun Oct 08, 2017 8:28 pm
...it's amazing how resistant one can become to evidence, if one has a stake in disbelief.
It's amazing how accepting one can become to evidence, if one has a stake in belief.
Immanuel Can wrote:
Sun Oct 08, 2017 8:28 pm
So as I said, some willingness, on the part of the perceiver, to be convinced is a sine qua non.
This really should be game over, Mr Can. If willingness to be convinced is necessary, then you are wasting your time with logical arguments.
Immanuel Can wrote:
Sun Oct 08, 2017 8:28 pm
There's nothing one can do with someone who simply has decided he will not regard ANY evidence.
There's not a lot you can do with someone who has decided he will accept EVERYTHING as evidence.

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Immanuel Can
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Re: The friendly atheist... not everyone is a barking dog

Post by Immanuel Can » Sun Oct 08, 2017 9:27 pm

davidm wrote:
Sun Oct 08, 2017 9:20 pm
Here we see the obdurate dishonesty of the Christian apologetics hack in overdrive.
Ah, yes...the old "point and hiss" strategy...followed by misdirection..."Look, over there: I perceive bad Christians. *Hisssss* Therefore, there are no bad Atheists."

Reasoning that weak can't even be mocked. It's mere misdirection.

This is me not paying attention. 8)

What number of people do you think Atheists killed last century?

uwot
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Re: The friendly atheist... not everyone is a barking dog

Post by uwot » Sun Oct 08, 2017 9:43 pm

Immanuel Can wrote:
Sun Oct 08, 2017 9:27 pm
Ah, yes...the old "point and hiss" strategy...
Once upon a time, there was a really kind man called Jesus who said: "Let him who is without sin cast the first stone." Tragically, the people who were too stupid too understand that it was a story, were the ones that didn't understand it.

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Harbal
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Re: The friendly atheist... not everyone is a barking dog

Post by Harbal » Sun Oct 08, 2017 9:46 pm

Immanuel Can wrote:
Sun Oct 08, 2017 9:21 pm
And an AK 47. :wink:
Thank Goodness you're only firing blanks.

davidm
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Re: The friendly atheist... not everyone is a barking dog

Post by davidm » Sun Oct 08, 2017 9:47 pm

Immanuel Can wrote:
Sun Oct 08, 2017 9:27 pm
davidm wrote:
Sun Oct 08, 2017 9:20 pm
Here we see the obdurate dishonesty of the Christian apologetics hack in overdrive.
Ah, yes...the old "point and hiss" strategy...followed by misdirection..."Look, over there: I perceive bad Christians. *Hisssss* Therefore, there are no bad Atheists."
:lol:

You really are SUCH a dishonest hack. Did I say there are no bad atheists? Would you like me to find the post that I made, months ago, in which I wrote that nothing about atheism makes atheists better people, and that indeed tons of atheists are bad people? This is actually a real issue within the atheist online community, were you paying attention. The upshot is that there are good and bad theists and good and bad atheists. And ... so? :?

What number of people do you think Atheists killed last century?
What number of people do you think Christians killed last century, and in all the centuries since Christianity arose, in the name of Christianity? Number, please.

But you still feign not to notice my point. One more time:

Stipulate, for the sake of argument, that it's true (though it's not) that 52 atheists killed 148 million people from 1917 to 2017. Let's accept this is true arguendo.

EVEN IF THIS IS FACTUAL, IT DOES NOT MAKE ATHEISM FALSE AND THEISM TRUE.

Do you FINALLY get the point? :?

davidm
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Re: The friendly atheist... not everyone is a barking dog

Post by davidm » Sun Oct 08, 2017 9:56 pm

Hmm, look at what I wrote:
Plenty of atheists are titanic assholes (just like plenty of theists). Many of them are misogynist, racist dipshits, for example. They have a huge online presence, too.
So, I said -- according to you -- "therefore, there are no bad atheists" how, again?

Let's see if you finally own up to a mistake. If not, Jesus will be VERY disappointed in you! :cry:

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Greta
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Re: The friendly atheist... not everyone is a barking dog

Post by Greta » Sun Oct 08, 2017 10:11 pm

Maybe what we need now is a thread - "The friendly theist... not everyone is a barking dog"?

Dubious
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Re: The friendly atheist... not everyone is a barking dog

Post by Dubious » Sun Oct 08, 2017 10:31 pm

Dubious wrote:
Sun Oct 08, 2017 12:27 am
If the only necessity for a theist is to believe there is a A God then why ascribe all the moralist paraphernalia if you cannot know what his nature or will are? How does everything you believe about morality follow from that?
Immanuel Can wrote:
Sun Oct 08, 2017 3:49 pm
You can know what His will and nature are. Even you would have to concede that, if one thing had happened....

If God had spoken.

Now, I say He has, and you say He hasn't, because you have already decided to believe He doesn't exist. We maybe can't agree on that point at the moment. But even you would have to concede that IF there were a God, and IF He had spoken, the objection would simply disappear.

You can supply any number of IF’s to make any argument look credible but they are not credible when what they imply is not credible. Sorry to write “credible” so often but credibility is what you’re severely short of including honesty and integrity.

An “IF” is only an “IF” and remains in that state when you have no further means to assert its validity. God remains a very IFFY subject as you yourself seem to acknowledge. Even an atheist can grant god that much credibility!
Dubious wrote:
Sun Oct 08, 2017 12:27 am
The picture you posted again proves that since you cannot possibly know what the shooter believed
I'm not concerned. Harbal just said he thought that what I had said had never happened.
No, his immediate response was...

Firstly, prove this man is an atheist. Then prove he is typical of all atheists.

...which sounds thoroughly reasonable especially the underlined part (my UL) since if he were an atheist or theist that does not imply that ALL atheists or theists are made complicit by such acts. I’m sure you would agree with this in the case of theists BUT NOT atheists being as you are on a crusade against this insidious life form.
Last edited by Dubious on Sun Oct 08, 2017 10:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Dubious
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Re: The friendly atheist... not everyone is a barking dog

Post by Dubious » Sun Oct 08, 2017 10:36 pm

Immanuel Can wrote:
Sun Oct 08, 2017 4:22 pm
Dubious wrote:
Sun Oct 08, 2017 12:27 am
The picture you posted again proves that since you cannot possibly know what the shooter believed or whether he went to Mass that morning,...
You know what's really, really funny to me about the way Atheists argue?

300 years ago the Puritans killed 20 people by hanging. And this was in an age with little journalism or scholarship, no internet, and not even the technology of photography. But not only can modern Atheists remember the massacre in detail, they can 'find' the specific bodies. They know who the victims were, what was done to them (hanging), and why. And they feel perfectly justified in they feel perfectly righteous to rub the faces of -- not just the Puritans, but of any Theist of any tradition, anytime -- in the dried blood of the victims.

"Yeah?" they say, "What about the witches, eh?"

Meanwhile, in the age of the photograph, modern journalism, and the internet, they cannot find the bodies of 148 million dead by the hands of their fellow Atheists.

Just lost them all. Can't find a one. :D

Now, you say, that I "cannot possibly know" what even this one little Soviet shooter believed, or even that maybe he wasn't a wayward Catholic who "went to Mass that morning." And you have knowledge of absolutely nothing of any of the massacres done by any of the many Atheist regimes who did these things.

How extraordinary! You can find 20, and at the same time, lose 148 million.
It’s hard to find any post which offers more potent proof of desperation, malice and stupidity combined to make your case against atheists.

You would truly have enjoyed being an Inquisitor with your instruments of mass persuasion readily at hand sending the evil atheist back to hell, nicht wahr? But what the hell, by your calculations he's going there anyways regardless of whether he was a criminal or someone with a lot of empathy for both humans and their lesser compatriots.

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Immanuel Can
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Re: The friendly atheist... not everyone is a barking dog

Post by Immanuel Can » Wed Oct 11, 2017 12:40 am

davidm wrote:
Sun Oct 08, 2017 9:47 pm
What number of people do you think Christians killed last century, and in all the centuries since Christianity arose, in the name of Christianity? Number, please.
None. But don't take my word for it. Common sense will tell you that too. There were no "wars of religion" at all in the last century. Not one. If you think otherwise, go ahead and name one. Vietnam? WW 1 or 2? The Korean War? The Cold War? The Six-Day War? What?

But I can still give you some helpful statistics. There are only 6.98% of the wars recorded in the Encyclopedia of Wars in which "religion" can plausibly be attributed as any kind of significant possible motive at all. Half of these were Islamic. The other 3.49% comprise all the other religions in history combined -- Hinduism, Sikhism, Buddhism, Polytheism, Catholicism...and so on. The "Christian" contribution is historically undetectable, if it exists at all; for it is also clear that many groups, such as the Anabaptists and Quakers, never were responsible for any wars at all.

None. Zero. Ever.

Against Atheists, 148 million.
Stipulate, for the sake of argument, that it's true (though it's not) that 52 atheists killed 148 million people from 1917 to 2017. Let's accept this is true arguendo.
That's a straw man, even as a "gimme." I did not say "52 Atheists." Look back and see. In fact, there were a great many more than that. There were, in fact, whole regimes of them. It takes not just a despot, but desperate people willing to follow him in order to kill that many people..
EVEN IF THIS IS FACTUAL, IT DOES NOT MAKE ATHEISM FALSE AND THEISM TRUE.
You missed the point. :shock:

Nobody said it was the basis of judging the truth or falsehood of the ideology. Certainly, I did not. I have no idea where you picked up this bizarre idea.

We were speaking about Atheism's actions. And while you mention it, it's worth noting the absolute hypocrisy on the part of Atheists to indict anybody with acts of war, violence or genocide. Historically, nobody has ever come close to the homicidal Atheistic regimes of the modern period in terms of piling up the bodies.

But let's talk about that. You say you don't like the encyclopedia's figures. Well, how many would you guess? Would you grant the encyclopedia HALF of what it records...say, around 75 million or so? How about half of that? Say...let's drop to 30 million? Any takers?

But you say that it's difficult to know who the Atheists are. That's implausible. After all, "Atheism" requires but one simple criterion, rejection of the God hypothesis, and nothing more -- and its advocates -- like, say, the Marxists -- are never shy about proclaiming their Atheism. The revelled in it, in fact. Moreover, they did so in an age of journalism, newspapers, modern historical records, radio, TV and, in some cases, the internet.

And they killed 148 million people. And yet you cannot find any of them? :shock:
Stipulate, for the sake of argument, that it's true (though it's not) that 52 atheists killed 148 million people from 1917 to 2017. Let's accept this is true arguendo.
Nobody said what you say was said here.

For example, I have no idea where you got the "52 Atheists" number. Maybe you misread the statistic that there's a 52% chance that the leader of an Atheist regime will kill at least 200,000 of his own people. But that' s the only "52" relevant, I think. There were way, way more than 52 bad Atheists, for their crimes could never have been perpetrated without massive support from others.

However, the 148 million number is, conservatively, correct. So let's accept that as true, because the true number is likely even higher.
EVEN IF THIS IS FACTUAL, IT DOES NOT MAKE ATHEISM FALSE AND THEISM TRUE.

Do you FINALLY get the point? :?
What "point"? I didn't argue what you attribute to me at all, so this is nothing more than a straw-man fabrication on your part.

False and true are not established on that basis. Rather, we were talking about the record of Atheism itself. See Page 2, bottom message.

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Arising_uk
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Re: The friendly atheist... not everyone is a barking dog

Post by Arising_uk » Wed Oct 11, 2017 1:20 am

Immanuel Can wrote:None. Zero. Ever.

Against Atheists, 148 million. ...
None were killed in the name of Atheism, they were killed in the name of Communism, Fascism and Democracy.
p.s.
Take a look - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_w ... death_toll
You'll find a huge amount of deaths by those who presumably were all godbotherers of one sort or another, given that overt Atheism is a very recent event. Given this how do you explain that your 'God' did not stop such behavior. Of course if you are saying it's only the Christian 'God' that can do this I'd wonder how many other 'God's there are then?
p.p.s.
By the by, can you supply the statistics and the population context at the time for your assertions, as it would be interesting to note the percentage of the population that were killled rather than your bold figures that sound nice but are essentially meaningless without context.
p.p.p.s.
Oh and some consideration and comparison about technology may well be in order when considering the number of deaths, after all it's a lot easier to kill many with a gun than a sword, so it would be interesting to note how bloody-thirsty the godbotherers were.

gaffo
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Re: The friendly atheist... not everyone is a barking dog

Post by gaffo » Mon Nov 27, 2017 4:11 am

nice story - I'm an Atheist too - since 12 yrs of age (now 40 yrs ago) - just ask "Greatest I am" ("snake") - we know each other from another forum for about 10 yr now.

I too converse with "Beleivers" in the same way - with civility and logic (esp liked your argument concerning role of Satan - he being under the power of God (so must be doing God's will with all his evil deads and resultant death).

I rem as a Univ Texas student in 93 when a group of 6-8 fundies walked up to be when i was sitting on a bench eating a burger, they asked me if I was a chrsitian, i said "nope". the leader (looked like a soon to be Tele-evangelist (clean cut and phony looking/acting).......I got the impression he was talking to me to show how "Great he was" to his followers............asked "can i pray for your salvation?"

I told him "I'd prefer if you would not right now, I'd feel uncomfortble, but would have no problem with you doing so after I've finished eating my burger and left" (i.e. pray for me after I leave here).

an honest Christian (one not egocentric and fixed on image WRT to his flock) would.

I honestly don't think this guy offer any prayer for my salvation. when i said what i did his expression was............"odd" (bewildered, then a negative sort of frown) like i was insulting him of something.

lol. ;-/.

Reflex
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Re: The friendly atheist... not everyone is a barking dog

Post by Reflex » Wed Nov 29, 2017 1:24 am

Atheists can be friendly, but their philosophy is like that of a barking dog. It may sound reasonable to other dogs, but to my ears, barking is just barking.

gaffo
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Re: The friendly atheist... not everyone is a barking dog

Post by gaffo » Sun Dec 03, 2017 12:49 am

Reflex wrote:
Wed Nov 29, 2017 1:24 am
Atheists can be friendly, but their philosophy is like that of a barking dog. It may sound reasonable to other dogs, but to my ears, barking is just barking.
ok.
maybe you need your hearing checked.

or not.

peace. ;-/.

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