How to exit the religious mess!

[ken]

The Sun will die when it can no longer convert hydrogen into helium and then
will go red giant and expand out to beyond the orbits of either Venus or Earth

Thanks. I now KNOW which one you want to do. You would much prefer to just express your already held assumptions and preconceptions rather than show any interest at looking into this deeper and further and discovering more. This prefer to express and be heard attitude appears to be
a serious preoccupation with most human beings

Actually you are entirely wrong about that.

What is the 'that', which you propose is entirely wrong?

You have NOT shown any interest at all in looking into this any further. You HAVE done exactly what I said. So, what exactly have I said here that could be entirely wrong?

Because if any new knowledge becomes available to me which contradicts what I have said above then
my position will change accordingly.

So what?

I never said you would not do that.

I just said what you did do, which you did, so I could NOT be entirely wrong at all. Unless of course you can prove Me wrong here.

Anything I hold to be true even absolutely so can be revised at any time.

How and when could it be revised?

I have invited you to show just some sort of interest into looking into this deeper so that we could find more truth, but you completely rejected that offer, and instead just continued to express what you already assume is the truth.

I do not carry on holding a particular
view once I know it is no longer true.

But you are happy to wait till new knowledge comes to you, right?

You have not shown any interest in looking for truth.

To Me, it appears that you are very happy to just hold onto what you already have, and just accept that as being the truth.

I have expressed that it is very easy and simple to find and see the actual truth. But if people do not show any interest in this, then so be it.

Though I actually know nothing as I have already said before. Because a very limited knowledge base such as
mine is actually zero when divided by all the actual and potential knowledge that will ever exist.

To keep the facts correct, any amount does NOT equal nothing.

Which will be forever as the Universe cannot die

How do you know this is true?

[ken]

The external world is a concept arising in the you who has no location.

So where are you typing from? The phenomenon of the external world is that there is an external world as without it no phenomena. It's not all in your head and if you think it is I invite you to step in front of that big red object barreling down the road.

The external world and the thoughts about the external world are the same phenomena.

Where is the external world without the thought about it, can there be an external world separate from the thought about it?

Where do thoughts exist?

What is, and where is the location of awareness that is aware of the thought about an external world?

Can an external world exist separate from the awareness of that world?

Can a thought or the awareness of that thought be pointed to, can it be looked at ? where is thought and awareness of thought?

The 'external reality' and the thoughts about it are the same thing.

Awareness and thought cannot be located....if it can then how?

The "You" that is assumed to exist is the content of conscious awareness aka as a (thought) which then searches within the content of consciousness for consciousness itself.



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EVERY one of those questions can be, very easily and very simply, answered, and then be proven correct scientifically. But since dontaskme literally lives up to that name and will NOT respond to Me anymore, then there is NO use in Me giving those obvious answers to you.

[surreptitious57]

I have invited you to show just some sort of interest into looking into this deeper so that we could find more truth
but you completely rejected that offer and instead just continued to express what you already assume is the truth

I have not rejected the offer at all and am waiting for you to provide the truth that you can find
So I am actually open to seeing what you have to say but unless you do I will not know what it is

[surreptitious57]

But you are happy to wait till new knowledge comes to you

You have not shown any interest in looking for truth

To Me it appears that you are very happy to just hold onto what you already have and just accept that as being the truth

I have expressed that it is very easy and simple to find and see the actual truth

Knowledge acquisition is a work in progress so comes to me slowly. I am interested in the truth but do not necessarily pursue it all
the time but when I find new truth I accept it. I know you have said many times that it is very easy and simple to see and find the
actual truth. So why do you have to keep repeating it is there any particular reason

[surreptitious57]

the Universe cannot die

How do you know this is true

Because the Universe is ALL THERE IS and that includes not just that which exists now but which will exist forever as well
As you define the Universe in exactly the same way then you think this too and so your question was somewhat rhetorical

[SpheresOfBalance]

Atheism is not an opinion. It is the default setting which distinguishes itself from a belief in god. If you say do not be a theist then you are commanding a person to be an atheist, by definition.
I do not wish for their to be no god. I just do not believe there is such a thing.

But in using the correct word, "believe" you are the same as those that do not "believe" there isn't.

Fucking idiot.
No, but you surely wish!

Not believe, means not believe.
It would seem your brain was radiated far too much, my point was that you can't say that you 'know,' moron!

I do not believe anything.
No your dumbass believes far too much tripe!

Run along.
Continue foolishly, it's hilarious!

[Arising_uk]

The external world and the thoughts about the external world are the same phenomena. ...

No they really aren't, one is the noumena the other are the phenomena.

Where is the external world without the thought about it, ...

In the noumena.

can there be an external world separate from the thought about it?

Yes.

Where do thoughts exist?

In a body with senses and memory.

What is, and where is the location of awareness that is aware of the thought about an external world?

In the CNS of a body with senses.

Can an external world exist separate from the awareness of that world?

Yes.

Can a thought or the awareness of that thought be pointed to, can it be looked at ? ...

Nowadays with the new imaging technology, yes.

where is thought and awareness of thought?

In a body with senses and memory.

The 'external reality' and the thoughts about it are the same thing. ...

You scare quoted external reality, if you don't then no they aren't.

Awareness and thought cannot be located....if it can then how?

Modern imaging technology.

The "You" that is assumed to exist is the content of conscious awareness aka as a (thought) which then searches within the content of consciousness for consciousness itself.

So?

[ken]

I have invited you to show just some sort of interest into looking into this deeper so that we could find more truth
but you completely rejected that offer and instead just continued to express what you already assume is the truth

I have not rejected the offer at all and am waiting for you to provide the truth that you can find

If you have not rejected the offer at all, then what interest have you shown at all?

What truth are you waiting for?

If you do not ask for what it is that you want, thus seek, then how long do you think you will be waiting for to get whatever it is that you want?

So I am actually open to seeing what you have to say but unless you do I will not know what it is

You are, supposedly, open to seeing what I have to say about what exactly?

If you do NOT ask questions, then I do NOT know what it is that you want and are waiting for.

[ken]

But you are happy to wait till new knowledge comes to you

You have not shown any interest in looking for truth

To Me it appears that you are very happy to just hold onto what you already have and just accept that as being the truth

I have expressed that it is very easy and simple to find and see the actual truth

Knowledge acquisition is a work in progress so comes to me slowly.

Just to clarify a work in progress can come quickly or slowly. So, the reason knowledge acquisition comes slowly is NOT because knowledge acquisition is a work in progress, but for some other reason. Do you know what that reason IS?

I am interested in the truth but do not necessarily pursue it all
the time but when I find new truth I accept it.

How do you usually find new truth?

Especially if you do not necessarily pursue new truth all the time how do you actually find it?

I know you have said many times that it is very easy and simple to see and find the
actual truth. So why do you have to keep repeating it is there any particular reason

To open people up and awaken inquisitiveness.

Nothing else has worked for Me so I am just trying this method for now. Remember I am just here to learn how to express better a way to show people how they can find the actual truth by, and for, them self. But people have to be open, by wanting, to find the actual truth. I can not force people to want to find truth.

Usually absolute statements get inevitably challenged. But for some reason Mine do not. This is either because My views are already accepted, which I think we all know what the truth is in this regard, or they are out right rejected and just ignored, or there might be some other reason that I am missing. Any ideas?

I am open to ALL ideas, in order to help Me express better.

[ken]

the Universe cannot die

How do you know this is true

Because the Universe is ALL THERE IS and that includes not just that which exists now but which will exist forever as well

But HOW do you know the Universe, or things, will exist forever?

As you define the Universe in exactly the same way then you think this too and so your question was somewhat rhetorical

I have said this is how I observe things. BUT I am still very much completely OPEN and will remain completely OPEN to all things. I would NEVER say 'The Universe can not die' BECAUSE I have NO actual evidence for this statement.

Just because i view things a certain way does NOT, in and of itself, make it true. I may define Universe the exact same way as you do, and i might think the exact same way about It lasting forever, as you do, BUT I do NOT believe that my views are absolutely true, and I would NEVER consciously pose some thing as being true without actual evidence for it.

[Dontaskme]

The external world and the thoughts about the external world are the same phenomena. ...

No they really aren't, one is the noumena the other are the phenomena.

Where is the external world without the thought about it, ...

In the noumena.

can there be an external world separate from the thought about it?

Yes.

Where do thoughts exist?

In a body with senses and memory.

What is, and where is the location of awareness that is aware of the thought about an external world?

In the CNS of a body with senses.

Can an external world exist separate from the awareness of that world?

Yes.

Can a thought or the awareness of that thought be pointed to, can it be looked at ? ...

Nowadays with the new imaging technology, yes.

where is thought and awareness of thought?

In a body with senses and memory.

The 'external reality' and the thoughts about it are the same thing. ...

You scare quoted external reality, if you don't then no they aren't.

Awareness and thought cannot be located....if it can then how?

Modern imaging technology.

The "You" that is assumed to exist is the content of conscious awareness aka as a (thought) which then searches within the content of consciousness for consciousness itself.

So?

Typical brainwashed mainstream indoctrinated garbage half baked response.

Not your fault A_Uk...

.

[Dontaskme]

Can AWARENESS be located, can it be seen, tasted, smelt, touched,heard, KNOWN etc? ...NO it cannot.

Any YET.. here now is seeing, tasting, smelling, touching, hearing, KNOWING.

All sensations, beliefs, thoughts, ideas, CONCEPTS appear, disappear and reappear IN AWARENESS

Every CONCEPT is SOURCED from the SAME unknowable PLACE...here now. NOWHERE.

Contradiction is unavoidable.

Conceptual language is the creation of the un-manifest.


''The spirit of creation is the spirit of contradiction. It is the breakthrough of appearances toward and unknown reality.''

[Dontaskme]

[Belinda]

Dontaskme wrote:

Typical brainwashed mainstream indoctrinated garbage half baked response.

Not your fault A_Uk...

Your questions were good ones, Dontaskme. You are brave to consider arguing with a better philosopher than you are.

[Dontaskme]

Your questions were good ones, Dontaskme. You are brave to consider arguing with a better philosopher than you are.

Saying that the location of awareness that is aware of the thought about an external world is in the Central Nervous System of a body with senses....is like saying it is located in a can of baked beans.

I don't know if I'm making myself clear. I'm not making this personal like you humans tend to believe. Leave persons out of this. Lets address the idea.

Would you like to have a stab at the answer to the good question?

Criticize the idea not the person. People are precious.
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