How to exit the religious mess!

Is there a God? If so, what is She like?

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surreptitious57
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Re: How to exit the religious mess!

Post by surreptitious57 »

ken wrote:
What I think has no bearing on truth at all
What I think has no bearing on truth at all because I know nothing as I keep telling you
I think I know things but THINKING and KNOWING are not the same as you already know

I only want you to remember one thing and it is that I know nothing at all as you also know
When you read my words you can dismiss them straight away so why are you not doing this
surreptitious57
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Re: How to exit the religious mess!

Post by surreptitious57 »

ken wrote:
I agree however that you might believe that what you think is the truth
I do not do belief as I have already said at least three times now and I know nothing as I have already said so then why say this
For how can I know any thing when I have just said I know nothing and so can you try to remember this if you can from now on
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Dontaskme
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Re: How to exit the religious mess!

Post by Dontaskme »

Belinda wrote: Sat Sep 23, 2017 10:38 pm Dontaskme wrote:
But that's not what God is..that's just an indoctrinated belief about what God is.
You cannot rebut my claim about what reasonable God is, and so you parrot that I have been "indoctrinated".

I cannot continue with someone whose ego is going to interfere with reason.
Everyone has been "indoctrinated" from birth by their parents, teachers, peers, etc... it's not personally fired at you in particular, I have too. Stop driving with the brakes on and and look at what is actually being pointed to when these things are mentioned.

I like the way you enter the discussion and then when the going gets tough you conveniently use the ''ego card'' to reason your way out of something I put to you regarding why you seem to say there is no awareness present in dreaming sleep.

Why make such a claim, I asked you why do you think there is no awareness in dreaming sleep, then you replied...to which I then replied ..and that's where you left it...my gripe with this is why enter the discussion if you are not willing to follow it through, I've noticed so many people do this, it's really annoying....so where is the evidence to support your claim that there is no awareness present in dreaming sleep?.... without providing the evidence something you yourself touched upon as to being an important factor.

So, I'm still waiting for your responses...go back and read through these pages if you've forgotten what was said. If you can't follow up your claims, then I am only to assume you have no idea what you are talking about, and is typically the work of the ego itself...it ironically gets mad for being treated the same way it treats. Know what I mean?



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surreptitious57
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Re: How to exit the religious mess!

Post by surreptitious57 »

surreptitious57 wrote:
ken wrote:
Usually absolute statements get inevitably challenged. But for some reason Mine do not. This is either because My views are already
accepted which I think we all know what the truth is in this regard or they are out right rejected and just ignored or there might be
some other reason that I am missing. Any ideas
I can think of two reasons but as they are two reasons you have given both here and elsewhere on the forum then I cannot help you
I am not going to tell you what those reasons are because I do not want you to know them but why do I not want you to know them
You already know what the reasons are so I see no reason to tell you but had to say this to clarify my answer to my question above
surreptitious57
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Re: How to exit the religious mess!

Post by surreptitious57 »

I find that as I get older I have less need for the ego and I also find that I function much better without it at all
And so I have no problem in being wrong as this is when I truly learn for knowledge acquisition is my goal in life
ken
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Re: How to exit the religious mess!

Post by ken »

surreptitious57 wrote: Sun Sep 24, 2017 2:54 am
ken wrote:
Nothing else has worked for Me so I am just trying this method for now
What do you mean nothing else has worked for you
Nothing else has worked for Me, means that nothing else has worked for Me.
surreptitious57 wrote: Sun Sep 24, 2017 2:54 amWhy did you not try this method before any others
Because either I wanted to try other methods first or I did not recognize this method earlier. Without going into deep reflection I can not remember.
surreptitious57 wrote: Sun Sep 24, 2017 2:54 amWhy cannot you find truly open minds who will listen to everything you have to say
Because there is NO such things as truly open minds. Simple really.

There are people, however, who look with and from the truly open Mind, these people are truly open already. These people listen to everything already, and thus are already able to find and see the actual truth, of things. And, there are people who look from the brain, these people are NOT truly open. These people do NOT listen, they generally only look for, find, and see that what confirms that what they already assume and/or believe to be true.

But why did you ask this question anyway? It has nothing to do with why I was using that method. Did you forget WHY and WHAT I was using that method for? It was certainly NOT to find things that do NOT exist. I was using that method for some thing else, which was certainly NOT what you were proposing here.
surreptitious57 wrote: Sun Sep 24, 2017 2:54 amHave you found just one truly open mind and if not then what is the reason for this
Have you forgotten? I am the One who is saying that there is only one truly open Mind. So, if that is what I have been continually saying, then obviously that means I have found one truly open Mind.
ken
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Re: How to exit the religious mess!

Post by ken »

surreptitious57 wrote: Sun Sep 24, 2017 3:03 am
ken wrote:
Usually absolute statements get inevitably challenged. But for some reason Mine do not. This is either because My views are already
accepted which I think we all know what the truth is in this regard or they are out right rejected and just ignored or there might be
some other reason that I am missing. Any ideas
I can think of two reasons but as they are two reasons you have given both here and elsewhere on the forum then I cannot help you
Let Me know if I have got this wrong; you can think of two reasons why My absolute statements do NOT get challenged. One of those reasons I gave just here and the other reason I have given already, and because I have given both of these reasons that you can think of, here and elsewhere, you can not help Me now, even when I ask you for, Any ideas?

Obviously I have forgotten the other reason I gave elsewhere but you say you can not help Me, for some reason which I am unaware of?
surreptitious57 wrote: Sun Sep 24, 2017 3:03 amI am not going to tell you what those reasons are because I do not want you to know them but why do I not want you to know them
What I see at first glance is you do NOT want Me to know the other reason because you do NOT want to help Me. By the way I obviously already know one reason so you do not have to tell Me both of the reasons.

Also, without the question mark I am not sure if you are asking Me why you do not want Me to know the reasons or if you are just saying that to leave us all in suspense.

You say you can not help Me, but the truth is you do NOT want to help Me. Otherwise you would have given Me the other reason that I have obviously forgotten, if I have already given it elsewhere.
ken
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Re: How to exit the religious mess!

Post by ken »

surreptitious57 wrote: Sun Sep 24, 2017 3:15 am
ken wrote:
Of course knowledge acquisition comes slowly to you

I have also already explained HOW you can speed the process up considerably
That does not mean that I have to acquire knowledge more quickly and I would prefer to acquire it more slowly
Of course it does NOT mean you have to do any thing at all. If you want to remain slow, then so be it.
surreptitious57 wrote: Sun Sep 24, 2017 3:15 amI like the slow process and see no reason to change it because it is and always will be a work in progress for me
Again, a work in progress has nothing whatsoever to do with speed. If you want to be slow, then that is your choice alone.
ken
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Re: How to exit the religious mess!

Post by ken »

surreptitious57 wrote: Sun Sep 24, 2017 6:28 am
ken wrote:
I asked you if you could explain HOW you KNOW the Universe can not die
Even if at some point in time absolute nothing is all that will ever exist then that will constitute the Universe
So therefore the Universe can never die because even if it could what comes after it will still be the Universe
Thank you for finally answering the question.

I can now use you, and your words, I have been looking for more to support My view. I say all My views fit together and form one big and true picture of Everything. The more support I can find, the more I learn how to express My view better. Thanks again.

Now, do you think or view the Universe began or had to have always existed?
ken
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Re: How to exit the religious mess!

Post by ken »

surreptitious57 wrote: Sun Sep 24, 2017 6:43 am
ken wrote:
What I think has no bearing on truth at all
What I think has no bearing on truth at all because I know nothing as I keep telling you
You keep telling Me you know nothing, but you also tell Me you know some things, AND, you also express some things as though they are absolutely true.

Also, the reason what you think has no bearing on truth at all is not because you know nothing, but because of the obvious truth that just because one person thinks some thing, that in and of itself, does NOT make any thing the truth
surreptitious57 wrote: Sun Sep 24, 2017 6:43 amI think I know things but THINKING and KNOWING are not the same as you already know
Yes, totally agree.
surreptitious57 wrote: Sun Sep 24, 2017 6:43 amI only want you to remember one thing and it is that I know nothing at all as you also know
But I do NOT know this. There is only one thing that I KNOW for sure. That is the thoughts, which appear to be within a human body.
surreptitious57 wrote: Sun Sep 24, 2017 6:43 amWhen you read my words you can dismiss them straight away so why are you not doing this
Because I want to learn how to express better.

And, because I am truly Open, so I never dismiss any thing straight away without first asking clarifying questions and/or challenging.
surreptitious57
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Re: How to exit the religious mess!

Post by surreptitious57 »

ken wrote:
What I see at first glance is you do NOT want Me to know the other reason because you do NOT want to help Me
You said something about the length of your posts but I do not know if this prevents others from replying or not and so
it might not be useful to you. I am not here to help you however. I am here to read your words and then reply to them
surreptitious57
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Re: How to exit the religious mess!

Post by surreptitious57 »

ken wrote:
do you think or view the Universe began or had to have always existed
I think that the Universe has always existed but I am not absolutely sure
ken
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Re: How to exit the religious mess!

Post by ken »

surreptitious57 wrote: Sun Sep 24, 2017 7:01 am
ken wrote:
I agree however that you might believe that what you think is the truth
I do not do belief as I have already said at least three times now and I know nothing as I have already said so then why say this
I used the word believe, although I knew not to, for the very reason you gave, but I could not think of any better words in how to express what I wanted to say at the time. That is why I said this, AND, because you have said you do not do belief that is why I put the word might in front of the word believe. So, I NEVER said, "You believe ...", I said, "You might believe ...", therefore if you do not believe, then My sentence can still stand.

If you actually do do belief or not, we will have to wait and see. You come across as contradicting your own statement.

Also, you again did not quote Me fully so you only painted part of the picture. I added the words, but that has been and will again show for itself what it truly is. which puts more into the picture of what I was actually saying and actually meaning.
surreptitious57 wrote: Sun Sep 24, 2017 7:01 amFor how can I know any thing when I have just said I know nothing and so can you try to remember this if you can from now on
I have already expressed that I remember you saying this. I also remember reminding you that if and when you state things as being absolutely true, then I will ask clarifying questions and/or challenge you, if I so choose to.

You saying that you know nothing, and you also saying, "try to remember this", to Me just means that you think you can say whatever you so choose to, but also are trying your hardest to get Me to stop challenging and questioning you about what you do choose to say.

It is very easy for you to know some thing even if you have just said you know nothing. People fool themselves all the time with the words they use and tell them self.

If, as you say, you know nothing, then why are you saying some things here?

What is your purpose for being here in this forum?
ken
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Re: How to exit the religious mess!

Post by ken »

dontaskme to belinda
Dontaskme wrote: Sun Sep 24, 2017 8:29 am ..and that's where you left it...my gripe with this is why enter the discussion if you are not willing to follow it through, I've noticed so many people do this, it's really annoying....
I have noticed many people do this also dontaskme. You being another one of them.
Last edited by ken on Sun Sep 24, 2017 12:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.
ken
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Re: How to exit the religious mess!

Post by ken »

surreptitious57 wrote: Sun Sep 24, 2017 9:36 am
surreptitious57 wrote:
ken wrote:
Usually absolute statements get inevitably challenged. But for some reason Mine do not. This is either because My views are already
accepted which I think we all know what the truth is in this regard or they are out right rejected and just ignored or there might be
some other reason that I am missing. Any ideas
I can think of two reasons but as they are two reasons you have given both here and elsewhere on the forum then I cannot help you
I am not going to tell you what those reasons are because I do not want you to know them but why do I not want you to know them
You already know what the reasons are so I see no reason to tell you but had to say this to clarify my answer to my question above
Ah okay thanks, this explains it much better now. But did I give both of the reasons, you can think of, here? Or only one here and the other reason elsewhere?
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