How to exit the religious mess!

Is there a God? If so, what is She like?

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Dontaskme
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Re: How to exit the religious mess!

Post by Dontaskme » Sun Sep 24, 2017 1:42 pm

Dontaskme wrote:
Sat Sep 23, 2017 2:24 pm
Belinda wrote:
Sat Sep 23, 2017 2:10 pm

You ask about awareness with regard to dreaming consciousness. Awareness is not present in dream sleep because the brain chemical that causes awareness has been depleted during waking consciousness.
When someone calls your name during dreaming sleep...would you just go on sleeping or would you wake up?

If awareness is not there in dreaming sleep ...who hears their name called?.. while asleep.. as you've assumed there is no awareness present while you sleep.


Belinda wrote:
Sat Sep 23, 2017 2:10 pm
It may interest you as a religious person to know that the prayer to be protected while sleeping is rational , as the sleeping state does leave us vulnerable to dangers.
What protects us during sleep?

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Belinda, are you willing to proceed with the discussion?

...this is not about who is right or wrong... it's about realising truths and the end of suffering.

Tell me why you do not think there is any awareness in dreaming sleep. And what did you mean in your latter statement.

Lets be civil and talk about the ideas, not the people projecting the ideas yeah?

.

ken
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Re: How to exit the religious mess!

Post by ken » Sun Sep 24, 2017 1:53 pm

surreptitious57 wrote:
Sun Sep 24, 2017 12:28 pm
Long as I am learning some
thing then that is all that matters. And so how much or how little it is is not something I concern myself with
ken wrote:
Sun Sep 24, 2017 12:54 pm
Ah okay, that explains a great deal, thank you.
I replied to what you said here by saying that explains a great deal, BUT, then I just noticed on another thread where you wrote the words, "The less I know then the more I have to learn for I want to learn as much as I can before I die", which totally contradicts the other thing you said.

More examples of how the brain tries, all it can, to deflect away from the actual truth, if the actual truth does not support or fit in with what is already being assumed or believed as the truth.

You have also written, "Knowledge acquisition is my goal in life so that is why I want to learn as much as I can

The obvious contradiction is blinding.

ken
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Re: How to exit the religious mess!

Post by ken » Sun Sep 24, 2017 2:07 pm

surreptitious57 wrote:
Sun Sep 24, 2017 1:08 pm
ken wrote:
You appear to NOT be open at all to acquiring new knowledge. You appear to just want to stay with the knowledge that you have already acquired
As my goal in life is knowledge acquisition which you already know then these two statements of yours are completely false so why say them
How many times do I have to explain to you that I do NOT know that your goal in life is knowledge acquisition. Of course I agree with you that that is what you say, but I do NOT know this as a factual truth. You could be telling Me any thing. Also, from what you say, by the way the way you write, you do NOT show this to be true at all, to Me. So, those two statements of mine are NOT completely false at all.

Why I said what I said is because that is what appears to Me. Both statements were about what appears to Me. Surely I do NOT have to explain that what appears to Me, nor any person, means that what is appearing is absolutely true. This is just like what I am thinking, viewing, seeing, observing. ALL of these things, in and of them self, do NOT mean that they are true. I was just expressing what appears to Me. So, that can NOT at all be completely false. Surely this is understood by now?


surreptitious57 wrote:
Sun Sep 24, 2017 1:08 pm
You appear to be basing your opinion entirely upon my exchanges with you in this forum but I acquire knowledge from outside the forum too
Of course I am basing My views/opinions entirely upon your exchanges with Me BECAUSE that is ALL I can base My views on. So, what appears to Me, I have already given.

ken
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Re: How to exit the religious mess!

Post by ken » Sun Sep 24, 2017 2:10 pm

surreptitious57 wrote:
Sun Sep 24, 2017 1:11 pm
ken wrote:
surreptitious57 wrote:
In mathematics something can have a value above zero all by itself but a value of zero to a certain number of decimal places
when expressed as a ratio of a larger number or of infinity. That is why I can say I know nothing and know or think I know some
things too. I also say I know nothing because I want to and need to

I may say something is absolutely true but I may only think it is absolutely true rather than know it is absolutely true
And so even if I am absolutely certain that something is absolutely true that does not automatically mean that it is so
Another example of the brain trying its hardest to deflect away from the actual truth
I am not actually aware of this and so do not think that that is what is happening here
Of course you are not actually aware of this and not aware that this is happening here. You are looking solely from the brain, and its gathered information only, so you can NOT see from outside that perspective. You NEED to look from the open Mind to be able to see and understand what is going on here. And, in order for that to happen there is a great deal of new knowledge acquisition to happen first.

ken
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Re: How to exit the religious mess!

Post by ken » Sun Sep 24, 2017 2:17 pm

surreptitious57 wrote:
Sun Sep 24, 2017 1:30 pm
ken wrote:
surreptitious57 wrote:
My goal is knowledge acquisition but there is no specific quantity
So really you satisfied and fulfilled that goal a few decades ago
This is not true as I only began seven years ago and also because it is a life goal
It does NOT matter that you only began your goal seven years ago. If your goal is knowledge acquisition but there is no specific quantity, then when you gained your first knowledge acquisition from a very, very early child, then you would have already fulfilled your goal here. However, and what has come to light is what your actual goal is is really unknown. Depending on which thread you are posting in seems to change the goal.
surreptitious57 wrote:
Sun Sep 24, 2017 1:30 pm
Although it was not actually until last year that I discovered what that goal was
It still stands that if there no specific quantity in your goal of knowledge acquisition, then you could have satisfied your goal with your very first acquired knowledge, which obviously you acquired at a very early age. Or, if you just want to look at this from the moment you CHOSE that goal, then the very first newly acquired knowledge after that goal you made up would have satisfied that goal.

Dontaskme
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Re: How to exit the religious mess!

Post by Dontaskme » Sun Sep 24, 2017 2:31 pm

Belinda wrote:
Sat Sep 23, 2017 1:27 pm
Dontaskme wrote:
Can AWARENESS be located, can it be seen, tasted, smelt, touched,heard, KNOWN etc?
Awareness is present in waking consciousness but not in dreaming consciousness except in lucid dreaming.
I clicked the wrong quote earlier so you probably wont get it. And is why I'm re-quoting since my posts just seem to get buried in endless posts from the parrot.

Belinda, would you like to proceed with the discussion and say why you think there is no awareness present in dreaming sleep?

.

ken
Posts: 1788
Joined: Mon May 09, 2016 4:14 am

Re: How to exit the religious mess!

Post by ken » Sun Sep 24, 2017 2:43 pm

Dontaskme wrote:
Sun Sep 24, 2017 2:31 pm
Belinda wrote:
Sat Sep 23, 2017 1:27 pm
Dontaskme wrote:
Can AWARENESS be located, can it be seen, tasted, smelt, touched,heard, KNOWN etc?
Awareness is present in waking consciousness but not in dreaming consciousness except in lucid dreaming.
I clicked the wrong quote earlier so you probably wont get it. And is why I'm re-quoting since my posts just seem to get buried in endless posts from the parrot.

Belinda, would you like to proceed with the discussion and say why you think there is no awareness present in dreaming sleep?

.
Coming from the one who will NOT proceed with discussions and will NOT answer questions asked of them.

Dontaskme
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Re: How to exit the religious mess!

Post by Dontaskme » Sun Sep 24, 2017 4:16 pm

ken wrote:
Sun Sep 24, 2017 2:43 pm

Coming from the one who will NOT proceed with discussions and will NOT answer questions asked of them.
Why don't you just run along now and find some porno mags to read or something, you obviously enjoy masturbating with yourself.

.

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Hobbes' Choice
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Re: How to exit the religious mess!

Post by Hobbes' Choice » Sun Sep 24, 2017 6:50 pm

SpheresOfBalance wrote:
Fri Sep 22, 2017 6:00 pm
Hobbes' Choice wrote:
Wed Sep 20, 2017 10:15 pm

I do not believe anything.
No your dumbass believes far too much tripe!



Tell me one thing I believe!

Belinda
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Re: How to exit the religious mess!

Post by Belinda » Sun Sep 24, 2017 7:53 pm

Dontaskme wrote:
Sun Sep 24, 2017 2:31 pm
Belinda wrote:
Sat Sep 23, 2017 1:27 pm
Dontaskme wrote:
Can AWARENESS be located, can it be seen, tasted, smelt, touched,heard, KNOWN etc?
Awareness is present in waking consciousness but not in dreaming consciousness except in lucid dreaming.
I clicked the wrong quote earlier so you probably wont get it. And is why I'm re-quoting since my posts just seem to get buried in endless posts from the parrot.

Belinda, would you like to proceed with the discussion and say why you think there is no awareness present in dreaming sleep?

.
Okay, but please remember that I am not a scientist. As I understand the matter there are at least three brain chemicals that vary the states of consciousness. Each of these becomes depleted during cycles of normal durations so we feel sleepy at regular intervals. When someone calls your name during dream sleep or dreamless sleep the chemical appropriate to awareness is aroused. Internal chemical messengers are orchestrated together with organs of special sense. I cannot tell you how as I don't know how but it's all very complex.

why you think there is no awareness present in dreaming sleep?


There is of course the private experience common to all of us of waking from a dream and experiencing the contrast between dream and waking reality.

I can direct you to a book if you wish.

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Hobbes' Choice
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Re: How to exit the religious mess!

Post by Hobbes' Choice » Sun Sep 24, 2017 8:55 pm

Dontaskme wrote:
Sun Sep 24, 2017 2:31 pm
Belinda wrote:
Sat Sep 23, 2017 1:27 pm
Dontaskme wrote:



Awareness is present in waking consciousness but not in dreaming consciousness except in lucid dreaming.
I clicked the wrong quote earlier so you probably wont get it. And is why I'm re-quoting since my posts just seem to get buried in endless posts from the parrot.

Belinda, would you like to proceed with the discussion and say why you think there is no awareness present in dreaming sleep?

.
Coming from the one who will NOT proceed with discussions and will NOT answer questions asked of them.
[/quote]

Dreaming is a type of awareness; awareness of your internal dialogue with your experiences, hopes, fears, etc. You are aware of the narrative as your brain tries organise impressions.

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Arising_uk
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Re: How to exit the religious mess!

Post by Arising_uk » Sun Sep 24, 2017 11:49 pm

Dontaskme wrote:Typical brainwashed mainstream indoctrinated garbage half baked response.

Not your fault A_Uk...
Actually yes, all my own fault as my thoughts are the result of thirty odd years thinking and studying and they are not in the mainstream of western society as most(of those who bother to think about such things) are either still in the main religions or believe some sort of hippy dipshit much like yours and yours is basically a fairly typical mishmash of Idealism plus a bastardisation cherry-pick of 'Eastern' religious ideas with throw-in touch of Fraudianism(which of course you will not notice).

ken
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Re: How to exit the religious mess!

Post by ken » Mon Sep 25, 2017 12:24 am

Dontaskme wrote:
Sun Sep 24, 2017 4:16 pm
ken wrote:
Sun Sep 24, 2017 2:43 pm

Coming from the one who will NOT proceed with discussions and will NOT answer questions asked of them.
Why don't you just run along now and find some porno mags to read or something, you obviously enjoy masturbating with yourself.

.
Why is that so obvious?

Is it because masturbating with "yourself" is usually how masturbating is done, and just as obvious is the fact that we, of those who do masturbate with ourselves, do it for the actual enjoyment that masturbating brings with it?

By the way I can and do masturbate very easily, with "myself", without the need for porno mags, so i do not need to find any.

Do you need to find pornographic magazines in order to masturbate?

Dontaskme
Posts: 3034
Joined: Sat Mar 12, 2016 2:07 pm

Re: How to exit the religious mess!

Post by Dontaskme » Mon Sep 25, 2017 8:32 am

Belinda wrote:
Sun Sep 24, 2017 7:53 pm

Okay, but please remember that I am not a scientist. As I understand the matter there are at least three brain chemicals that vary the states of consciousness. Each of these becomes depleted during cycles of normal durations so we feel sleepy at regular intervals. When someone calls your name during dream sleep or dreamless sleep the chemical appropriate to awareness is aroused. Internal chemical messengers are orchestrated together with organs of special sense. I cannot tell you how as I don't know how but it's all very complex.
Thanks for agreeing to continue discussing this subject.

Are you saying that awareness is a brain chemical...and during sleep the chemical appropriate to awareness is in some kind of abeyance until stimulated to a state of arousal whereby it becomes aware of itself via the contrast between unconsciousness and consciousness?

Doesn't this imply that the capacity for awareness must always be present....so it's not like it's not present at all during dreaming sleep, but rather it is there ..but it's just not conscious of itself during the phase of sleep, rather it is in abeyance?

The reason I'm saying this is because awareness would seem to be the fundamental substratum of ''actual beingness'' to be what it is.. and that it has to be primary and prior beyond any sense recognition for recognition to be recognised. And that it is impossible for it not to be present, whether it be in waking or dreaming reality. It must be the same awareness that sees a dream during sleep and the images of the waking world? ..is this correct?

Belinda wrote:
Sun Sep 24, 2017 7:53 pm
There is of course the private experience common to all of us of waking from a dream and experiencing the contrast between dream and waking reality.
Is it awareness that make this distinction between waking and dreaming reality?
Since it is awareness that has been aroused to waking state, then isn't that awareness only that which is living life?
Belinda wrote:
Sun Sep 24, 2017 7:53 pm
I can direct you to a book if you wish.
Yes, that would be great thanks.

.
Last edited by Dontaskme on Mon Sep 25, 2017 8:49 am, edited 1 time in total.

Dontaskme
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Joined: Sat Mar 12, 2016 2:07 pm

Re: How to exit the religious mess!

Post by Dontaskme » Mon Sep 25, 2017 8:46 am

Arising_uk wrote:
Sun Sep 24, 2017 11:49 pm
Dontaskme wrote:Typical brainwashed mainstream indoctrinated garbage half baked response.

Not your fault A_Uk...
Actually yes, all my own fault as my thoughts are the result of thirty odd years thinking and studying
Well you didn't study what I studied then ....which was to discover that thoughts are not 'our' thoughts, and what is only a belief that thoughts are 'our' thoughts is just more thoughts about thoughts.

Arising_uk wrote:
Sun Sep 24, 2017 11:49 pm
the main religions or believe some sort of hippy dipshit much like yours and yours is basically a fairly typical mishmash of Idealism plus a bastardisation cherry-pick of 'Eastern' religious ideas with throw-in touch of Fraudianism(which of course you will not notice).
Yeah, forget about all that stuff, it's all made-up bollocks..I noticed this as early as I could first stand and walk on my own two feet,..and that's why I decided to do my own research, I'm a self taught one, my knowledge coming straight from the sources mouth, of which I make no claim to own.

.

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