How to exit the religious mess!

Is there a God? If so, what is She like?

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Dontaskme
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Re: How to exit the religious mess!

Post by Dontaskme »

Belinda wrote: Sat Sep 23, 2017 2:10 pm However when we are thinking harder we can see that the unchanging self is a convenience.
No it's not a convenience, it's an absolute necessity which I'll explain later. There are no dividing lines between the events in life, life flows as one infinite seamless stream, streaming live right now. There is no inbetween this immediate now and another now...it's all NOW endlessly.


Belinda wrote: Sat Sep 23, 2017 2:10 pm Please consider one moral advantage of unbelief in immutable self. If I have been foolish, wrongheaded, unkind, or stupid I can forgive myself as that was the self of that time and place which was wrong. I can forgive and try to do better. I can extend forgiveness to another in the same manner.

If, on the other hand, I am immutable I cannot forgive myself and must carry that burden until I die. For the same reason I cannot forgive another person.

To talk of God, if God is immutable which He is of course, that is okay because God is pure good and cannot be stupid or unkind. But God must by definition be the only immutable.
But that's not what God is..that's just an indoctrinated belief about what God is.
artisticsolution
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Re: How to exit the religious mess!

Post by artisticsolution »

But that's not what God is..that's just an indoctrinated belief about what God is.
Who are you to tell anybody what God Is?

:D
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Dontaskme
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Re: How to exit the religious mess!

Post by Dontaskme »

artisticsolution wrote: Sat Sep 23, 2017 4:53 pm
Who are you to tell anybody what God Is?

:D
I have no idea?

:D
surreptitious57
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Re: How to exit the religious mess!

Post by surreptitious57 »

ken wrote:
surreptitious57 wrote:
Knowledge acquisition is a work in progress so comes to me slowly
Just to clarify a work in progress can come quickly or slowly So the reason knowledge acquisition
comes slowly is NOT because knowledge acquisition is a work in progress but for some other reason
It comes slowly to me because it takes time to learn things and they also can be hard to understand
surreptitious57
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Re: How to exit the religious mess!

Post by surreptitious57 »

ken wrote:
I would NEVER say The Universe can not die BECAUSE I have NO actual evidence for this
You said every thing comes into existence and then dies except of course for the Universe
Belinda
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Re: How to exit the religious mess!

Post by Belinda »

Dontaskme wrote:
But that's not what God is..that's just an indoctrinated belief about what God is.
You cannot rebut my claim about what reasonable God is, and so you parrot that I have been "indoctrinated".

I cannot continue with someone whose ego is going to interfere with reason.
ken
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Re: How to exit the religious mess!

Post by ken »

surreptitious57 wrote: Sat Sep 23, 2017 5:33 pm
ken wrote:
surreptitious57 wrote:
Knowledge acquisition is a work in progress so comes to me slowly
Just to clarify a work in progress can come quickly or slowly So the reason knowledge acquisition
comes slowly is NOT because knowledge acquisition is a work in progress but for some other reason
It comes slowly to me because it takes time to learn things and they also can be hard to understand
Of course knowledge acquisition comes slowly to you. I have already given the explaination of WHY it comes slow to you.

I have also already explained HOW you can speed the process up considerably. But you either are NOT listening to Me, have heard what I said but just outright reject it, and/or just continue to do THAT, WHAT I said makes knowledge acquisition a slow process for YOU.

If you would like Me to explain things again, then just ask.
ken
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Re: How to exit the religious mess!

Post by ken »

surreptitious57 wrote: Sat Sep 23, 2017 8:05 pm
ken wrote:
I would NEVER say The Universe can not die BECAUSE I have NO actual evidence for this
You said every thing comes into existence and then dies except of course for the Universe
You KNOW I have continually asked you, politely, to quote Me EXACTLY, when you do quote Me.

You KNOW that I ask you to do this so that others do not have to look back over what I said previously to see if the quote you wrote was accurate and/or in full.

You KNOW that if you do NOT quote Me EXACTLY, then you and others are NOT reading My true and full words, and thus you and them are NOT gaining the true and full picture of what it IS that I am actually saying.

You KNOW that if you do NOT quote Me EXACTLY,
then that is somewhat proof that you are NOT reading Me EXACTLY, and thus this could be the very reason WHY you misinterpret what I am actually saying and WHY you appear confused about that what I have actually said.

I did NOT say what you are purporting by the way you quoted Me. I said, "As for stars dying, well every thing comes into existence and then dies, except of course for the Universe, Itself, which is what I observe."

Obviously what I observe MEANS that what is being said is NOT stated as being a factual truth but only what I observe. And, just is obvious is that what I observe could be wrong or partly wrong. I have already explained all of this.

The way to determine if what I say is right or not is to KNOW if absolutely every thing could be in agreement and in acceptance with what I say.

You KNOW that I write in a way to get others to write in a way to show exactly how the Mind and the brain work. I can not prove what I will express one day is true and right without some evidence and proof. So that is WHY I make you respond and write the way you do. I write in a way KNOWING what you will do. I control you this way.

I KNEW you were only going to see in My writings what you wanted to see. So you neglected, unconsciously of course, to look at and recognize the most important part in what I said. Seeing only what those parts that confirm what is already held as bring true already IS exactly how the brain works. The brain in that body labelled surreptitious57 has just proven this again here. Your writings are the proof I need and am looking for.

Showing how the brain works is very easy. Showing how the Mind works is a bit harder, but when I learn how to express better then showing this with proof and evidence will come soon enough.
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Greta
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Re: How to exit the religious mess!

Post by Greta »

Hobbes' Choice wrote: Fri Sep 15, 2017 9:22 am
Dontaskme wrote: Fri Sep 15, 2017 8:12 amIf you wish to see the truth then hold no opinion for or against.
Don’t be a theist and don’t be an atheist if you really want to know what truth is.
Don’t say, "There is God"; don't say, "There is not", because whatsoever you say will become a deep desire.
And whatsoever is there hidden in the desire you will project.

By ~famous Indian guru~
Atheism is not an opinion. It is the default setting which distinguishes itself from a belief in god. If you say do not be a theist then you are commanding a person to be an atheist, by definition.
I do not wish for their to be no god. I just do not believe there is such a thing.
Well put. The easiest way out of "this religious mess" is to ignore it. That is what atheism is largely about - not resisting theism. That is militant or radical atheism. Most atheism is simply going about life without reference to ancient mythology, or science, for that matter. "Atheism" makes no reference to one's level of philosophical inclination either - some lead deeply examined lives, some live more day-to-day, for the moment.

I'm agnostic due to some peak experiences that made me doubt many things, but I used to be an atheist and understand that it is almost always misunderstood by theists. This is because theists actively believe so they assume that atheists actively disbelieve.

This is a wrong assumption. Most atheists disbelieve in deities in the same way as theists disbelieve in, say, vampires. Theists don't spend hours trying to refute the existence of vampires, or generally give them even a moment's thought (unless they are horror movie fans). Vampires are simply not on the average theist's radar. Exactly the same can be said of God or gods for most atheists, who will tend to not waste more than a moment on either vampires and deities.
surreptitious57
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Re: How to exit the religious mess!

Post by surreptitious57 »

ken wrote:
I said As for stars dying well every thing comes into existence and then dies except of course for the Universe Itself which is what I observe

Obviously what I observe MEANS that what is being said is NOT stated as being a factual truth but only what I observe
Those extra words do not change the context of what you said but you think the Universe is ALL THERE IS anyway which means it can never die
surreptitious57
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Re: How to exit the religious mess!

Post by surreptitious57 »

ken wrote:
Nothing else has worked for Me so I am just trying this method for now
What do you mean nothing else has worked for you
Why did you not try this method before any others

Why cannot you find truly open minds who will listen to everything you have to say
Have you found just one truly open mind and if not then what is the reason for this
surreptitious57
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Re: How to exit the religious mess!

Post by surreptitious57 »

ken wrote:
Usually absolute statements get inevitably challenged. But for some reason Mine do not. This is either because My views are already
accepted which I think we all know what the truth is in this regard or they are out right rejected and just ignored or there might be
some other reason that I am missing. Any ideas
I can think of two reasons but as they are two reasons you have given both here and elsewhere on the forum then I cannot help you
I am not going to tell you what those reasons are because I do not want you to know them but why do I not want you to know them
surreptitious57
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Re: How to exit the religious mess!

Post by surreptitious57 »

ken wrote:
Of course knowledge acquisition comes slowly to you

I have also already explained HOW you can speed the process up considerably
That does not mean that I have to acquire knowledge more quickly and I would prefer to acquire it more slowly
I like the slow process and see no reason to change it because it is and always will be a work in progress for me
ken
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Re: How to exit the religious mess!

Post by ken »

surreptitious57 wrote: Sun Sep 24, 2017 2:31 am
ken wrote:
I said As for stars dying well every thing comes into existence and then dies except of course for the Universe Itself which is what I observe

Obviously what I observe MEANS that what is being said is NOT stated as being a factual truth but only what I observe
Those extra words do not change the context of what you said but you think the Universe is ALL THERE IS anyway which means it can never die
You still have NOT got it.

Those extra words completely change the context of what I said. I would NOT have said them if they did not change the context at all.

What i think has no bearing on truth at all.

Me thinking that you Universe does not die, does NOT mean that the Universe can never die. You are so totally WRONG when you wrote, "... but you think the Universe is ALL-THERE-IS anyway which "means" the Universe can never die". If you really believe that what I think means 'it' IS the truth, then you are completely mistaken. I agree, however, that you might believe that what you think is the truth, but that has been and will again show for itself what it truly is.

I NEVER stated that the Universe can never die. Never have and never will. However, you did state, "the Universe cannot die". This can only be taken in one context, and thus mean one thing only. That is you KNOW what the truth IS. (Unless of course you can show otherwise).

I asked you if you could explain HOW you KNOW the Universe can not die? You have not yet answered this question.

If you can explain this, then we will wait and see. If, however, you can not explain this, then it would speed the knowledge acquisition process up a lot quicker if you just acknowledged that you do NOT know this.
surreptitious57
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Re: How to exit the religious mess!

Post by surreptitious57 »

ken wrote:
I asked you if you could explain HOW you KNOW the Universe can not die
Even if at some point in time absolute nothing is all that will ever exist then that will constitute the Universe
So therefore the Universe can never die because even if it could what comes after it will still be the Universe
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