God; a good father or a deadbeat dad. Which is the truth?

Is there a God? If so, what is She like?

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Dubious
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Re: God; a good father or a deadbeat dad. Which is the truth?

Post by Dubious » Mon Jul 31, 2017 10:18 pm

Greatest I am wrote:
Mon Jul 31, 2017 10:01 pm
Dubious wrote:
Mon Jul 31, 2017 8:24 pm
Greatest I am wrote:
Mon Jul 31, 2017 12:58 pm

My analysis of the bible and God does not show God to be a good father.
Wow, amazing insight! Anything else new on planet earth that hasn't been repeated and discussed a million times / year?
Every nail in the immoral Christian creed helps rid ourselves of it.

Do you not recognize the harm Christianity continues to do? If you do, why complain about us trying to do good for society by pointing out the immorality of the creed?

Regards
DL
What you've written really has nothing to do with Christianity. You only mention the OT variety of God which is simply a Jewish creation at a time when a lot of gods were being created. It's absolutely insane to judge the morality of Yahweh by modern standards. The Jews created the god they needed at the time. End of story!

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Sir-Sister-of-Suck
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Re: God; a good father or a deadbeat dad. Which is the truth?

Post by Sir-Sister-of-Suck » Mon Jul 31, 2017 10:18 pm

Greatest I am wrote:
Mon Jul 31, 2017 10:05 pm
Sir-Sister-of-Suck wrote:
Mon Jul 31, 2017 9:18 pm
It doesn't really matter what I think, if I assume that the God of the bible exists, I don't think it would be wise to use your own moral intuitions to judge him. If we're assuming that the bible is true as a source in general, than they would say he's necessarily a benevolent being.

Having said, I've never found the problem of him 'seemingly' committing evils to be a good argument against god. The theist will usually reply with Skeptical Theism, which I find to be an even more intuitive response.
Seemingly?

Not seemingly to moral minds.
That's assuming that your morals are correct though, or mean the same things that they do in Judaeo christian morality; "I can't concieve of a morally just reason why god would commit genocide, infanticide, etc, therefore, there isn't one" is an argument from ignorance. Ironically, you even seem to be slightly uncertain in your OP.

What you need to show is how a morally just god necessarily would not do these things.

thedoc
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Re: God; a good father or a deadbeat dad. Which is the truth?

Post by thedoc » Tue Aug 01, 2017 2:28 am

Harbal wrote:
Mon Jul 31, 2017 8:56 pm
thedoc wrote:
Mon Jul 31, 2017 8:45 pm
At least you're consistent.
I see you're still ignoring my posts. :)
Most of them, as I choose.

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Greta
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Re: God; a good father or a deadbeat dad. Which is the truth?

Post by Greta » Tue Aug 01, 2017 6:23 am

Each of our lives is what it feels like to be a component of growing larger entities - big entities that are comprised of countless "little perceptions", ie. that of each individual.

The question we each need to ask ourselves is "what kind of God we are being to our cells and microbes?". To be a good deity, we basically need to stay alive and healthy and to try to grow our influence (ideally positive) in life, either genetically or memetically.

Also, what kind of cell of your "greater body" (of humanity) are you? A high performer? A layabout? Young and fresh? Old and stuffed? In your prime? A move and shaker? A consolidator and stabiliser? A communicator and conduit? A bonder? An isolationist? A leader, a follower? A fringe dweller? A central player? A power player? An adapter? A high consumer? An ascetic? etc etc. Are you the kind of cell that you hope more of your body's cells would be like?

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Greatest I am
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Re: God; a good father or a deadbeat dad. Which is the truth?

Post by Greatest I am » Tue Aug 01, 2017 1:13 pm

Dubious wrote:
Mon Jul 31, 2017 10:18 pm
Greatest I am wrote:
Mon Jul 31, 2017 10:01 pm
Dubious wrote:
Mon Jul 31, 2017 8:24 pm


Wow, amazing insight! Anything else new on planet earth that hasn't been repeated and discussed a million times / year?
Every nail in the immoral Christian creed helps rid ourselves of it.

Do you not recognize the harm Christianity continues to do? If you do, why complain about us trying to do good for society by pointing out the immorality of the creed?

Regards
DL
What you've written really has nothing to do with Christianity. You only mention the OT variety of God which is simply a Jewish creation at a time when a lot of gods were being created. It's absolutely insane to judge the morality of Yahweh by modern standards. The Jews created the god they needed at the time. End of story!
Modern standards of morality are about the same as ancient ones. That is rather obvious.

What changes do you see in the two basic moral codes?

Regards
DL

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Greatest I am
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Re: God; a good father or a deadbeat dad. Which is the truth?

Post by Greatest I am » Tue Aug 01, 2017 1:20 pm

Sir-Sister-of-Suck wrote:
Mon Jul 31, 2017 10:18 pm
Greatest I am wrote:
Mon Jul 31, 2017 10:05 pm
Sir-Sister-of-Suck wrote:
Mon Jul 31, 2017 9:18 pm
It doesn't really matter what I think, if I assume that the God of the bible exists, I don't think it would be wise to use your own moral intuitions to judge him. If we're assuming that the bible is true as a source in general, than they would say he's necessarily a benevolent being.

Having said, I've never found the problem of him 'seemingly' committing evils to be a good argument against god. The theist will usually reply with Skeptical Theism, which I find to be an even more intuitive response.
Seemingly?

Not seemingly to moral minds.
That's assuming that your morals are correct though, or mean the same things that they do in Judaeo christian morality; "I can't concieve of a morally just reason why god would commit genocide, infanticide, etc, therefore, there isn't one" is an argument from ignorance. Ironically, you even seem to be slightly uncertain in your OP.

What you need to show is how a morally just god necessarily would not do these things.
Simple. It is not doing unto others as he killed instead of cured.

My moral sense has yet to be proven wrong.

Regards
DL

Walker
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Re: God; a good father or a deadbeat dad. Which is the truth?

Post by Walker » Tue Aug 01, 2017 1:27 pm

Greatest I am wrote:
Tue Aug 01, 2017 1:13 pm
Dubious wrote:
Mon Jul 31, 2017 10:18 pm
Greatest I am wrote:
Mon Jul 31, 2017 10:01 pm


Every nail in the immoral Christian creed helps rid ourselves of it.

Do you not recognize the harm Christianity continues to do? If you do, why complain about us trying to do good for society by pointing out the immorality of the creed?

Regards
DL
What you've written really has nothing to do with Christianity. You only mention the OT variety of God which is simply a Jewish creation at a time when a lot of gods were being created. It's absolutely insane to judge the morality of Yahweh by modern standards. The Jews created the god they needed at the time. End of story!
Modern standards of morality are about the same as ancient ones. That is rather obvious.

What changes do you see in the two basic moral codes?

Regards
DL
Could very well be that the evil is in man, and not religion.

They, and you know who they are, say that during the plague folks purposely distanced themselves from bonding with infants and toddlers, given the psychological toll of high infant mortality. Stands to reason that human nature still managed to cause a measure of grief for those who survived a bit longer, to realize more of the same repetition called the routines of life, with less confusion.

In the fifties and before, fathers were busy living their own lives and scarcely knew the names of their many children. However, in this modern century if a father is not elbow deep in the birthing with a video-cam, and a pal to the rugrats, then he’s a bad dad. This is because folks have evolved in sensitivity and know how they should behave from watching so many movies.

The point is to echo Dubious, although the sound may be fractured by rocks and crags. Near the top rung of delusional arrogance is to moralize events of the past in light of current fashion. Back when Jesus was walking on water, harsh morality tales was the language heard within short, brutal, painful and uneducated lives of narrow scope ... quite unlike modern life, where not just a king can have a bed not infested with fleas and lice. Although, watch out for the bedbugs. I recently heard a story about bedbugs. They like to live behind a headboard that may be screwed into the wall.

This is why a message of peace, love and compassion was so revolutionary for the region.

Regarding interpretation of biblical stories fond to Christians, the primate in man does still enjoy smearing shit on most anything, and man can do so more cleverly than other primates by using mind forms of the same substance.

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Greatest I am
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Re: God; a good father or a deadbeat dad. Which is the truth?

Post by Greatest I am » Tue Aug 01, 2017 3:45 pm

Walker wrote:
Tue Aug 01, 2017 1:27 pm
Greatest I am wrote:
Tue Aug 01, 2017 1:13 pm
Modern standards of morality are about the same as ancient ones. That is rather obvious.

What changes do you see in the two basic moral codes?

Regards
DL
Could very well be that the evil is in man, and not religion.
This I reject as religions are created by men and are sustained by them, thus to try to separate the two would be wrong. Religions, without people would vanish.
They, and you know who they are, say that during the plague folks purposely distanced themselves from bonding with infants and toddlers, given the psychological toll of high infant mortality. Stands to reason that human nature still managed to cause a measure of grief for those who survived a bit longer, to realize more of the same repetition called the routines of life, with less confusion.
I reject this as well as I cannot see people not bonding with babies even if one fears for their life. Even today we have parents bonding with children who are plagued with all types of debilitating birth defects.
In the fifties and before, fathers were busy living their own lives and scarcely knew the names of their many children. However, in this modern century if a father is not elbow deep in the birthing with a video-cam, and a pal to the rugrats, then he’s a bad dad. This is because folks have evolved in sensitivity and know how they should behave from watching so many movies.
I reject the fist part of this as well.
The point is to echo Dubious, although the sound may be fractured by rocks and crags. Near the top rung of delusional arrogance is to moralize events of the past in light of current fashion. Back when Jesus was walking on water, harsh morality tales was the language heard within short, brutal, painful and uneducated lives of narrow scope ... quite unlike modern life, where not just a king can have a bed not infested with fleas and lice. Although, watch out for the bedbugs. I recently heard a story about bedbugs. They like to live behind a headboard that may be screwed into the wall.

This is why a message of peace, love and compassion was so revolutionary for the region.
All of the older religions preached love and compassion so the message was hardly revolutionary.
Regarding interpretation of biblical stories fond to Christians, the primate in man does still enjoy smearing shit on most anything, and man can do so more cleverly than other primates by using mind forms of the same substance.
True perhaps but that is the minority and not the vast majority.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ADgh3yCSdM

Regards
DL

Walker
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Re: God; a good father or a deadbeat dad. Which is the truth?

Post by Walker » Tue Aug 01, 2017 4:16 pm

Greatest I am wrote:
Tue Aug 01, 2017 3:45 pm
This I reject as religions are created by men and are sustained by them, thus to try to separate the two would be wrong. Religions, without people would vanish.
I don't think it's so terribly wrong.
Dualism is mans' nature, although being blind to dualism is just plain ignorance.

Religions inspired by man, e.g., personality cult made famous by B. Obama, are also distinct from religion divinely inspired.
- Religions are inspired by God.
- God is not inspired by man.
- Well, not all men.

8)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9gtfizIbBDI

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Greatest I am
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Re: God; a good father or a deadbeat dad. Which is the truth?

Post by Greatest I am » Tue Aug 01, 2017 5:50 pm

Walker wrote:
Tue Aug 01, 2017 4:16 pm
Greatest I am wrote:
Tue Aug 01, 2017 3:45 pm
This I reject as religions are created by men and are sustained by them, thus to try to separate the two would be wrong. Religions, without people would vanish.
I don't think it's so terribly wrong.
Dualism is mans' nature, although being blind to dualism is just plain ignorance.

- Religions are inspired by God.
An immoral God if we are to go by the religions he spawned.

Both Christianity and Islam have basically developed into intolerant, homophobic and misogynous religions. Both religions have grown themselves by the sword instead of good deeds and continue with their immoral ways in spite of secular law showing them the moral ways.

Jesus said we would know his people by their works and deeds. That means Jesus would not recognize Christians and Muslims as his people, and neither do I. Jesus would call Christianity and Islam abominations.

Gnostic Christians did in the past, and I am proudly continuing that tradition and honest irrefutable evaluation based on morality.

Regards
DL

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Sir-Sister-of-Suck
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Re: God; a good father or a deadbeat dad. Which is the truth?

Post by Sir-Sister-of-Suck » Tue Aug 01, 2017 6:32 pm

Greatest I am wrote:
Tue Aug 01, 2017 1:20 pm
Simple. It is not doing unto others as he killed instead of cured.

My moral sense has yet to be proven wrong.
While that's likely true given his omnipotence, that's likely not how the christian god sees it.

That's not how logic works. The burden of proof is on you to prove that your moral sense necessarily isn't wrong, and is true.

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Greatest I am
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Re: God; a good father or a deadbeat dad. Which is the truth?

Post by Greatest I am » Wed Aug 02, 2017 12:54 pm

Sir-Sister-of-Suck wrote:
Tue Aug 01, 2017 6:32 pm
Greatest I am wrote:
Tue Aug 01, 2017 1:20 pm
Simple. It is not doing unto others as he killed instead of cured.

My moral sense has yet to be proven wrong.
While that's likely true given his omnipotence, that's likely not how the christian god sees it.

That's not how logic works. The burden of proof is on you to prove that your moral sense necessarily isn't wrong, and is true.
I made my argument and the reasons why I thing God to be a deadbeat dad in the O.P.

If you disagree with it or can refute it, have at it.

1Peter 1:20 0 He was chosen before the creation of the world, but was revealed in these last times for your sake.

My moral sense tells me that a son should bury his father and if a father chose the opposite when there is no need to, and has his son die before he does, then he is not a worthy father.

Do you agree?

Regards
DL

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Sir-Sister-of-Suck
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Re: God; a good father or a deadbeat dad. Which is the truth?

Post by Sir-Sister-of-Suck » Wed Aug 02, 2017 6:46 pm

Greatest I am wrote:
Wed Aug 02, 2017 12:54 pm
1Peter 1:20 0 He was chosen before the creation of the world, but was revealed in these last times for your sake.

My moral sense tells me that a son should bury his father and if a father chose the opposite when there is no need to, and has his son die before he does, then he is not a worthy father.

Do you agree?
While that might seem true according to human psychology, that's not necessarily true. You're judging god by a very personal standard that does not have any actual philosophical objectivity.

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Greatest I am
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Re: God; a good father or a deadbeat dad. Which is the truth?

Post by Greatest I am » Wed Aug 02, 2017 6:54 pm

Sir-Sister-of-Suck wrote:
Wed Aug 02, 2017 6:46 pm
Greatest I am wrote:
Wed Aug 02, 2017 12:54 pm
1Peter 1:20 0 He was chosen before the creation of the world, but was revealed in these last times for your sake.

My moral sense tells me that a son should bury his father and if a father chose the opposite when there is no need to, and has his son die before he does, then he is not a worthy father.

Do you agree?
While that might seem true according to human psychology, that's not necessarily true. You're judging god by a very personal standard that does not have any actual philosophical objectivity.
Hogwash.

This follows natural law which is what got you here.

If you have a philosophical argument against, then put it.

A denial without apology is just hypocrisy in my book as it tries to kill the apology given to the idea without showing the weapon.

Regards
DL

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Sir-Sister-of-Suck
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Re: God; a good father or a deadbeat dad. Which is the truth?

Post by Sir-Sister-of-Suck » Wed Aug 02, 2017 8:50 pm

Greatest I am wrote:
Wed Aug 02, 2017 6:54 pm
Hogwash.

This follows natural law which is what got you here.

If you have a philosophical argument against, then put it.

A denial without apology is just hypocrisy in my book as it tries to kill the apology given to the idea without showing the weapon.
We aren't dealing with nature, we're talking about a hypothetical god who is described as benevolent by the same source you're quoting committed all these terrible things that make him a 'terrible father'; Prove that your moral sense overwrites his.

'In my Book' is a very personal standard, because again, what logically differentiates your standard from his? The burden of proof isn't on me to disprove your morality, it's on you to prove it.

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