Which would you prefer?

Is there a God? If so, what is She like?

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Philosophy Explorer
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Which would you prefer?

Post by Philosophy Explorer »

Paradise on Earth or Heaven? I'm on the fence with this one.

PhilX
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henry quirk
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Post by henry quirk »

Define 'paradise'.
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attofishpi
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Re: Which would you prefer?

Post by attofishpi »

Philosophy Explorer wrote: Mon Jul 17, 2017 12:59 pm Paradise on Earth or Heaven? I'm on the fence with this one.

PhilX
Maybe thats both your paradise and heaven - having your balls segregated by a corrugated fence. You fucking idiot. (sometimes i think its wise to tell people how dumb they are)
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Re: Which would you prefer?

Post by ken »

'Heaven', in the bible, refers to living together peacefully, in harmony, here on earth, like in paradise.

Why do some people think 'heaven' refers to some other place?

The 'after-life' refers to after this way of life, that is this greedy, war-torn, pollution-riddled way of life dies, finishes, passes away, or ends, then a much better, more peaceful and harmonious way of life will begin, and with this way of life be-coming better all the time, then that is living in heaven.

Because human beings have learned to, and thus have, become so individualistically greedy, some of them actually believe that any reference to the 'after-life', 'life after death', or the 'hereafter' refers to them solely. Obviously 'life' continues on after the death of each human body, so 'life', after the death of each human body when it stops breathing keeps going and when 'life', after the death of this greedy way of life will obviously change. 'Life' could change for the better, or for the worse, that is all depended upon how human beings create life, the way they want it for themselves.

Also, obvious is the 'hereafter' refers to 'here', which is Life, Itself, or in other words, the Universe, Itself. Human beings will 'here, after' they stop doing wrong, that is kill of this current way of life, and learn how to only do what is right, they will be creating a much better "world", for themselves - A Heaven. Because of the way creation and evolution work hand-in-hand together, a paradigm shift is needed where ALL human beings will first learn how to live in peace and harmony together 'here,' (on their one and only home earth at the moment), 'before' they have the "right", or gain the "privilege", to then use the rest of the Universe as their home. Through an evolutionary natural process ,where all things are in equilibrium, human beings will learn how to live together peacefully here on earth before they gain the wisdom, and thus the ability, to truly be able to traverse and, for lack of a better word, 'colonize' other parts of the Universe, without the intent of just taking for their own selfishness.
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Lacewing
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Re: Which would you prefer?

Post by Lacewing »

ken wrote: Tue Jul 18, 2017 5:28 am 'Heaven', in the bible, refers to living together peacefully, in harmony, here on earth, like in paradise.
Why would Heaven be restricted to this tiny little planet?
ken wrote: Tue Jul 18, 2017 5:28 am this greedy, war-torn, pollution-riddled way of life dies, finishes, passes away, or ends, then a much better, more peaceful and harmonious way of life will begin, and with this way of life be-coming better all the time, then that is living in heaven.
So, are all of the people who have already lived and died WAITING for something to finish before they can experience Heaven, and then how will they do that?
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Post by Harbal »

henry quirk wrote: Mon Jul 17, 2017 2:35 pm Define 'paradise'.
A place where there are no madmen with guns, for a start.
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Re: Which would you prefer?

Post by Dontaskme »

Philosophy Explorer wrote: Mon Jul 17, 2017 12:59 pm Paradise on Earth or Heaven?

Neither, paradise is not a place, it's a state of mind, it's dwells eternally within your being, but not everyone can see or feel it...hell is not seeing or feeling it...but don't despair, hell will eventually pass away for good, whereas paradise is your natural state...it never leaves you.

.
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Re: Which would you prefer?

Post by ken »

Lacewing wrote: Tue Jul 18, 2017 5:47 am
ken wrote: Tue Jul 18, 2017 5:28 am 'Heaven', in the bible, refers to living together peacefully, in harmony, here on earth, like in paradise.
Why would Heaven be restricted to this tiny little planet?
I thought that I had already explained that, because of the way evolution works, when all human beings had learned how to live peacefully together HERE on earth first then, AFTER that, they will be able to travel much further and thus they have the whole Universe to live in, Heaven. 'Heaven' is not an actual place. 'Heaven' is a way of life. Human beings can make hell for themselves, and live that way of life, which from an outside perspective is how life generally is seen at the moment, or human beings can make life much better for themselves and continue making it better and thus life and living far more heaven like.
Lacewing wrote: Tue Jul 18, 2017 5:47 am
ken wrote: Tue Jul 18, 2017 5:28 am this greedy, war-torn, pollution-riddled way of life dies, finishes, passes away, or ends, then a much better, more peaceful and harmonious way of life will begin, and with this way of life be-coming better all the time, then that is living in heaven.
So, are all of the people who have already lived and died WAITING for something to finish before they can experience Heaven, and then how will they do that?
If a person is WAITING for some thing that they could create them self, then they probably will be WAITING till the day that that body stops breathing. If a person or people are going to wait for some thing else to do what they themselves could do, then they will be waiting a very long time. Obviously no other thing is going to do some thing for human beings what they, themselves, could very easily do.

Also, people do not die, as such. Sure human bodies stop breathing, and start decaying, but the people inside those bodies continue on, in the sense that they have left a mark on the "world", in some way, which always has an ongoing or everlasting effect. Even the body while, during, and after being alive and decay leaves some kind of everlasting effect on the physical world.

I am not sure if ALL people are actually waiting for some thing to finish, but for those that are or were waiting for this greedy way of life to finish, then they should have been far more open and honest about their greedy ways, and sought to change them earlier, and then they could have helped in creating that much better world that they are or were waiting for much earlier.

As for how will those actual people who were existing in those breathing bodies before those bodies stopped breathing, who were waiting for some thing Heaven like to exist, then this has to do with and when human beings gain the ability to physically time-travel. This also can only happen 'HERE AFTER' human beings learn how to and actually are being non greedy.

After human beings discover, learn and share the knowledge of how to live without wars and without being greedy, then all that money that gets wasted on warring and defence can be put to much better use like health and technology.

Once ALL people are far more open and honest with each then a far more real and true "world" exists, where people can truly advance and progress towards that what they truly want, and far quicker than they are doing now. That true and real world, which ALL once wanted, is living in peace and harmony with one another.
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Re: Which would you prefer?

Post by Greta »

I used to really enjoy a late night jazz bar called the Paradise Room back in the day. James Morrison's band - heaven!

Seriously(?), who doesn't want paradise at all times? It sure beats the alternatives.
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Re: Which would you prefer?

Post by attofishpi »

ken wrote: Tue Jul 18, 2017 5:28 am 'Heaven', in the bible, refers to living together peacefully, in harmony, here on earth, like in paradise.

Why do some people think 'heaven' refers to some other place?

The 'after-life' refers to after this way of life, that is this greedy, war-torn, pollution-riddled way of life dies, finishes, passes away, or ends, then a much better, more peaceful and harmonious way of life will begin, and with this way of life be-coming better all the time, then that is living in heaven.
Pretty good understanding. Yes heaven is not another place and you don't die to gain heaven. Its a dimension thing. Its the understanding that the knowledge you have gained, and the trust in this 'God' entity and knowing its power is over ALL atoms - including keeping thieves\murderers\rapists away from you and those u love - since God CAN control their will.

Reality is a convoluted apparition of the Truth. From what I have and am witnessing - I would not be surprised if > 60% of reality is 'pretend'.
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Re: Which would you prefer?

Post by Lacewing »

ken wrote: Tue Jul 18, 2017 10:57 am 'Heaven' is a way of life. Human beings can make hell for themselves, and live that way of life, which from an outside perspective is how life generally is seen at the moment, or human beings can make life much better for themselves and continue making it better and thus life and living far more heaven like.
Are you experiencing Heaven, or is your heavenly life dependent on what other people right now are doing?
Once ALL people are far more open and honest with each then a far more real and true "world" exists, where people can truly advance and progress towards that what they truly want, and far quicker than they are doing now. That true and real world, which ALL once wanted, is living in peace and harmony with one another.
Must all be a certain way?

Why do you think that this unfolding isn't perfect and natural as it is?

Do you think that what you're describing is the only reality there is?
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henry quirk
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A place where there are no madmen with guns, for a start.

Post by henry quirk »

To each his own.
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Greta
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Re: Which would you prefer?

Post by Greta »

Lacewing wrote: Tue Jul 18, 2017 2:17 pm
ken wrote: Tue Jul 18, 2017 10:57 am... human beings can make life much better for themselves and continue making it better and thus life and living far more heaven like.
Are you experiencing Heaven, or is your heavenly life dependent on what other people right now are doing?
... That true and real world, which ALL once wanted, is living in peace and harmony with one another.
Must all be a certain way?
Why do you think that this unfolding isn't perfect and natural as it is?
A good question. Just because the situation is inconvenient to (most) humans doesn't mean things aren't evolving to a predictable (to someone on the outside looking in) state of maturity. After all, despite problems with the environment, inequity and overcrowding, humans (and by proxy, the Earth) are advancing ever more quickly in developing asteroid defences, gathering material from outside (asteroid mining) and sending Earth material to operate and/or proliferate on other worlds.

If the Earth was a single organism, at present it would appear to be moving into its reproductive stage, with humans operating like brains, gonads (space projects) and exoskeleton (eg. our accidentally protective LHF waves, asteroid defence). In context, if you think of the Earth as a gestating entity, then humanity is increasingly taking on the equivalent functions of body parts in animals that were, during early gestation, the ectoderm. Humanity and its other animals and resources are like the Earth's outer layer, most in contact with the environment.

Metaphorically, I see it as the Earth growing to reproductive maturity and leaving behind its innocent "childish" things, eg. most animals :(. As above, so below.
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Re: Re:

Post by Noax »

Harbal wrote: Tue Jul 18, 2017 6:03 am A place where there are no madmen with guns, for a start.
I have a brother in law that would not find the place to be paradise if he was deprived of his guns.
Don't expect him to be invited, so problem solved I guess.
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Re: Which would you prefer?

Post by Dubious »

Lacewing wrote: Tue Jul 18, 2017 2:17 pm
Why do you think that this unfolding isn't perfect and natural as it is?
However it unfolds is natural whether such as we succeed or not. Nature reacts to any and all conditions including those it was not responsible for creating; it simply adjusts itself, thoroughly impervious to those it may affect whether that be fortuitous or calamitous. Call it god or nature, it reacts to stimuli in conformity to its own protocols making whatever happens a natural event. On a lesser scale it refers as much to the behavior responses of human nature as it does to the biosphere which hosts it having been its progenitor.
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