100% Proof That Gods Do Not Exist

Is there a God? If so, what is She like?

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Lacewing
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Re: 100% Proof That Gods Do Not Exist

Post by Lacewing »

Dontaskme wrote: Sat Jun 24, 2017 1:36 pm God has to be tasted, and until it's tasted for one self, ain't no God ever going to show up no way no how.
Any profound experience has to be experienced for oneself -- this is not unique to the idea of a god. Humans who believe themselves to have experienced a god, often seem unable to accept that there can be any other profound experiences/interpretations on such a scale as they themselves have touched -- and this is why it seems to me that ego becomes involved in that: the need to think that one is in touch with an ultimate interpretation and manifestation.
Dontaskme wrote: Sat Jun 24, 2017 1:36 pmA lot of people just don't understand that there are only stories in life. And that it's all His story.
This seems so contradictory. If there are only stories in life... it's a story to say that it's His story.
Rhodnar
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Re: 100% Proof That Gods Do Not Exist

Post by Rhodnar »

I do seem to have lost some people there.

Not 'truly just' = Not a 'God'
'Truly just' = Not a 'God'

No 'Gods'.

What does 'truly just' mean?
It's inside you, and it's not hard to find, but you have to look for it first.
You've been in an 'object lesson' your whole life.

Hint: Universal unconditional love.
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Greta
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Re: 100% Proof That Gods Do Not Exist

Post by Greta »

Dontaskme wrote: Sat Jun 24, 2017 1:58 pm
Greta wrote: Fri Jun 23, 2017 11:49 pm

So why would our opinions ever be pivotal in proving the existence of such a thing? For all we know, maybe one needs different sensory organs or a differently structured mind to comprehend the nature of reality? That is ultimately what the argument about God is about. We simply don't know the ultimate nature of reality. Anyone who tells you otherwise is not providing an honest report but pushing a line driven by emotional need. Which is fine - we do it all the time, but it's not philosophically valid.
No singular person knows anything, everything is already known, here now functioning as it is without any inference to it. I'm assuming Apes don't have the sense of life is happening to me, whereas human do have that sense. And that is where God enters the scene for the human experience as it instantly rushes in to repair the breach.
I see. So, for you, God is the difference between humans and other animals.

Then again, as young children we were very much less aware than an adult ape so at what point does God start filling us up? Why refer to a concept like sentience as "God"? Why not just call it "sentience"?
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Greta
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Re: 100% Proof That Gods Do Not Exist

Post by Greta »

Rhodnar wrote: Sat Jun 24, 2017 10:16 pmHint: Universal unconditional love.
Yes, as opposed to the usual religious obsessions with controlling women and gays.

Universal unconditional love is the crux of everything IMO. That attitude or stance is about kinship - the ultimate oneness of us all in our difference. If people want to call it "God" fine, whatever works for them. We are all ultimately part of the one life project on Earth - every person, every intelligent animal, every bug, microbe, plant, rock, and so on. We are kin. Or as Carl Sagan said, we are all stardust (or at least we once were a long time ago).

Yet we entities on Earth must compete, exploit, kill and eat each other. No wonder we get so screwed up :lol:
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Immanuel Can
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Re: 100% Proof That Gods Do Not Exist

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Dontaskme wrote: Sat Jun 24, 2017 1:36 pm IC, we cannot teach God's existence to another, not with words or explanations or debates, or by winning people over to our side of an argument. God has to be tasted, and until it's tasted for one self, ain't no God ever going to show up no way no how.
Well, that's not the whole truth, I'd say, but rather part of it. Yes, one does have to see for oneself...granted. But often people have reservations of the mind that keep them from seriously looking to find that experience. Removing such obstacles to faith is a key first step. Then people need some kind of indication of which way to look for answers. Then they have to have some idea of how to have that experiential contact of which you speak. So part of the task is cerebral, but part is also personal and experiential.

While it's true that an overly-cerebral understanding is insufficient and sometimes cold, that there's got to be a personal commitment and experience, it's not true to say that people's reasonable questions, hesitations and reservations can just be ignored. They'll never have a personal experience of tasting the goodness of God if they have come to believe it's not even possible for a God to exist. That error in thinking will forever keep them from ascribing their experience to the right ultimate Source.

So if nothing else, they've got to have a modicum of openness to the possibility. And that's what reason can do. "Come," says the Lord, "let us reason together..." and again, "He who has ears to hear, let him hear." Reason can sometimes open up ears that would otherwise be deaf, and make people consider the possibilities anew. That's a good thing.
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Re: 100% Proof That Gods Do Not Exist

Post by Rhodnar »

Religions raise questions:

“Why do bad things happen to good people?”
“If God loves us why does He let babies die of cancer?”
“Why does science contradict the Bible?”
Etc:

Religions cause suffering:

War.
Brainwashing.
Persecution.
Discrimination.
Etc:

Religions are escapism:

“The Devil made me do it.”
“She's in Heaven with the Angels now.”
“God will save us from global warming.”
Etc:

Religions are a warm cozy blanket in a sometimes harsh, cruel world, and for that they are wonderful. However; if they are based upon fact, they do not come from a god. At best they come from a benevolent ruler, at worst, from a psychotic despot.
People invented “God” and created “Him” in there own image. “King of Kings”, not many kings with any real power left today though. I wonder why?
People invented the “Devil” to explain away questions that couldn't otherwise be explained, to persecute people for not being “one of us”, and to get them off the hook, when they screwed up.

When you let go of religion and become 'truly just', all becomes clear.

No more questions about the nature of existence.
No more worries.
No more fears.
No more 'Gods'.
No more 'Devils'.
No more 'Faith'.
No more religion.

And if everybody did it:
No more hate, discrimination, war, greed, crime...etc:

Not that it would ever happen, but you get my point.

'Gods' really don't exist. Anything that you think is a 'God', isn't a 'God'. Any 'Holy Book' upon which you base your existence, isn't 'Holy', because it didn't come from a 'truly just' being or beings, human or otherwise.

I'm sorry if this ruffles a few feathers, but look where thousands of years of religion have got us. Perhaps a few feathers need to be ruffled.

https://youtu.be/xCorJG9mubk
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Noax
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Re: 100% Proof That Gods Do Not Exist

Post by Noax »

Rhodnar wrote: Sun Jun 25, 2017 7:10 amHowever; if [religions] are based upon fact, they do not come from a god.
What does any of your prior post have to do with your topic? You're supposed to be proving (100%!) that there are no Gods, not pointing out that religions are inconsistent.
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Immanuel Can
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Re: 100% Proof That Gods Do Not Exist

Post by Immanuel Can »

Rhodnar wrote: Sun Jun 25, 2017 7:10 am Religions raise questions:
Yes, they do. And some deserve serious treatment.

But some, not so much.

For example, the truth is that any kind of "religion" is, at most generous estimate, responsible for 7% of history's wars -- 1/2 of those by Islam, and the other 3.5% by all other religions combined, with some religions accounting for 0%. :shock: So the idea "wars are caused by religion" is actually quite stupid and contrary to fact...so why do you believe it?

And that's the really important question: if the facts don't support it at all, then how come you haven't seen through it?

Be careful what you dismiss without actually thinking. You might dismiss the truth.
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Re: 100% Proof That Gods Do Not Exist

Post by Londoner »

Rhodnar wrote: Sat Jun 24, 2017 10:16 pm What does 'truly just' mean?
Well...first we can remove the 'truly' because it is redundant What does that 'truly' add to 'just'? If something is 'just' then it is true that it is just. If it is not true that it is just, then it wouldn't be just. So, we are left with:
What does 'just' mean?
I can tell you. It is a word and its meaning can be discovered by looking at usage. This is (assuming it is the adjective): fair, fair-minded, equitable, even-handed, impartial, unbiased, objective, neutral, disinterested, unprejudiced, open-minded, non-partisan etc.
It's inside you, and it's not hard to find, but you have to look for it first.
No, it is not inside me. If it was, it must be a noun, but the word is not used as a noun. If you are using it as a noun then you are not communicating. You need to find the correct word for whatever you are trying to describe.

Or if you mean that things which are correctly to be described as 'just' are to be found inside me, then that cannot be the case. If I am to discover the correct meaning of 'just' purely by introspection, how would I know if I had found it? What could I check it against? And how could I check that what I thought was 'just' today was the same as I thought was 'just' yesterday?
Hint: Universal unconditional love.
Why do you need to hint? If by 'truly just' you meant 'universal unconditional love' why not say that instead? Or, if you meant some third thing, why not say that?

It seems a bit odd to announce you have '100% Proof That Gods Do Not Exist' and then invite us to enter a guessing game about what that proof is. Some might suspect you don't know yourself.
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Dontaskme
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Re: 100% Proof That Gods Do Not Exist

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Greta wrote: Sat Jun 24, 2017 11:09 pm
Dontaskme wrote: Sat Jun 24, 2017 1:58 pm
Greta wrote: Fri Jun 23, 2017 11:49 pm

So why would our opinions ever be pivotal in proving the existence of such a thing? For all we know, maybe one needs different sensory organs or a differently structured mind to comprehend the nature of reality? That is ultimately what the argument about God is about. We simply don't know the ultimate nature of reality. Anyone who tells you otherwise is not providing an honest report but pushing a line driven by emotional need. Which is fine - we do it all the time, but it's not philosophically valid.
No singular person knows anything, everything is already known, here now functioning as it is without any inference to it. I'm assuming Apes don't have the sense of life is happening to me, whereas human do have that sense. And that is where God enters the scene for the human experience as it instantly rushes in to repair the breach.
I see. So, for you, God is the difference between humans and other animals.

Then again, as young children we were very much less aware than an adult ape so at what point does God start filling us up? Why refer to a concept like sentience as "God"? Why not just call it "sentience"?
I know some of my ideas don't make much sense, but what I was trying to point out is that God is the only thing living, and the human's ability to communicate with concepts is a creative expression of life living itself...for the human, there is a sense of other, but a concept is an appearance of nondual oneness appearing as if there are others..other has no independent existence in and of itself.. although it does appear to have the sense of life is happening to me..but that is how this energetic play of energy..appears to itself.. This sense of 'me' is unique to the consciousness expressing itself as a concept human. But ...no concept lives life, there is only life aka light living itself.
When the sense of self awareness arises..awareness of other..this forms a breach...a separation of the whole appears within itself..which is quickly repaired...since there is nowhere for other to exist..the sense of other is an illusion, it simply cannot be found anywhere to exist because the position is already filled by the one light of God.

There is quote by Leonard Cohen ...''There is a crack in everything.That's how the light gets in.''
That's basically what I'm trying to say. . . light can only reveal itself via the apparent contrast of other...appearing as human consciousness.
.
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Dontaskme
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Re: 100% Proof That Gods Do Not Exist

Post by Dontaskme »

Immanuel Can wrote: Sun Jun 25, 2017 3:59 am
Dontaskme wrote: Sat Jun 24, 2017 1:36 pm IC, we cannot teach God's existence to another, not with words or explanations or debates, or by winning people over to our side of an argument. God has to be tasted, and until it's tasted for one self, ain't no God ever going to show up no way no how.
Well, that's not the whole truth, I'd say, but rather part of it. Yes, one does have to see for oneself...granted. But often people have reservations of the mind that keep them from seriously looking to find that experience. Removing such obstacles to faith is a key first step. Then people need some kind of indication of which way to look for answers. Then they have to have some idea of how to have that experiential contact of which you speak. So part of the task is cerebral, but part is also personal and experiential.

While it's true that an overly-cerebral understanding is insufficient and sometimes cold, that there's got to be a personal commitment and experience, it's not true to say that people's reasonable questions, hesitations and reservations can just be ignored. They'll never have a personal experience of tasting the goodness of God if they have come to believe it's not even possible for a God to exist. That error in thinking will forever keep them from ascribing their experience to the right ultimate Source.

So if nothing else, they've got to have a modicum of openness to the possibility. And that's what reason can do. "Come," says the Lord, "let us reason together..." and again, "He who has ears to hear, let him hear." Reason can sometimes open up ears that would otherwise be deaf, and make people consider the possibilities anew. That's a good thing.
Yes, I agree with everything you've said here. I guess what I was trying to say is one can lead a horse to water, but can't make it drink, only the horse can drink, we can't drink for the horse.
seeds
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Re: 100% Proof That Gods Do Not Exist

Post by seeds »

Rhodnar wrote: Sun Jun 25, 2017 7:10 am When you let go of religion and become 'truly just', all becomes clear.

No more questions about the nature of existence.
No more worries.
No more fears.
No more 'Gods'.
No more 'Devils'.
No more 'Faith'.
No more religion.
You have simply disabused yourself of the mythological nonsense handed down to us from ancient minds.

Congratulations and good for you.

However, for you to suggest that by letting go of religion there will be:
Rhodnar wrote: Sun Jun 25, 2017 7:10 am “...No more questions about the nature of existence...”
...is utterly ridiculous.

If such is the case for you, Rhodnar, then please (and without parroting the usual materialistic blatherings) enlighten us as to what the “nature of existence” is all about.
Rhodnar wrote: Sun Jun 25, 2017 7:10 am And if everybody did it:
No more hate, discrimination, war, greed, crime...etc:
Are you seriously trying to suggest that if there were no more religions, then there would be no more Donald Trumps or Kim Jong-uns? - In other words, no more racist, narcissistic, self-serving, greedy, power-hungry, warmongering humans on earth?

Are you kidding us? Or do you actually believe that?

The irony of your assertions is that most religions - at their core - are attempting to counter the negative human traits mentioned above.
_______
Rhodnar
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Re: 100% Proof That Gods Do Not Exist

Post by Rhodnar »

Noax wrote: Sun Jun 25, 2017 12:55 pm What does any of your prior post have to do with your topic? You're supposed to be proving (100%!) that there are no Gods, not pointing out that religions are inconsistent.
I did, twice.

If a being is not truly just it isn't a god.
If a being is truly just it isn't a god because it doesn't want to be viewed as one.
Immanuel Can wrote: Sun Jun 25, 2017 1:54 pm [For example, the truth is that any kind of "religion" is, at most generous estimate, responsible for 7% of history's wars -- 1/2 of those by Islam, and the other 3.5% by all other religions combined, with some religions accounting for 0%. :shock: So the idea "wars are caused by religion" is actually quite stupid and contrary to fact...so why do you believe it?
Lost me there. You told me wars are caused by religion and then asked me why I think that wars are caused by religion. At no point did I suggest that ALL wars are caused by religion.
Londoner wrote: Sun Jun 25, 2017 2:03 pm Well...first we can remove the 'truly' because it is redundant What does that 'truly' add to 'just'? If something is 'just' then it is true that it is just. If it is not true that it is just, then it wouldn't be just. So, we are left with:
You may wish to take that one up with Socrates if you find him in your “after-life”. I'm not really using the term in quite the same manner as he did though. Sorry if that's a bit of a red herring. I use the term 'truly just' to distinguish it from just or justice, which are situationally dependent.
Londoner wrote: Sun Jun 25, 2017 2:03 pm It seems a bit odd to announce you have '100% Proof That Gods Do Not Exist' and then invite us to enter a guessing game about what that proof is. Some might suspect you don't know yourself.
I'm not sure how you're missing it. I'm 'truly just', I found it via introspection, after having lived my life up to that point. The 100% proof is simple...Not truly just, not a god. Truly just, not a god. Please explain to me where you're having a problem.
seeds wrote: Sun Jun 25, 2017 4:54 pm
Rhodnar wrote: Sun Jun 25, 2017 7:10 am “...No more questions about the nature of existence...”
...is utterly ridiculous.

If such is the case for you, Rhodnar, then please (and without parroting the usual materialistic blatherings) enlighten us as to what the “nature of existence” is all about.
I Started a thread on the meaning of life some time back. You can probably find it by clicking on my name or something.
seeds wrote: Sun Jun 25, 2017 4:54 pm
Rhodnar wrote: Sun Jun 25, 2017 7:10 am And if everybody did it:
No more hate, discrimination, war, greed, crime...etc:
Are you seriously trying to suggest that if there were no more religions, then there would be no more Donald Trumps or Kim Jong-uns? - In other words, no more racist, narcissistic, self-serving, greedy, power-hungry, warmongering humans on earth?

Are you kidding us? Or do you actually believe that?

The irony of your assertions is that most religions - at their core - are attempting to counter the negative human traits mentioned above.
_______
I stated that if ALL humans became truly just...Not if ALL religions were abandoned. One good thing religions do actually accomplish is keeping people 'in check' somewhat.
Londoner wrote: Sun Jun 25, 2017 2:03 pm
Rhodnar wrote: Sat Jun 24, 2017 10:16 pm Hint: Universal unconditional love.
Why do you need to hint? If by 'truly just' you meant 'universal unconditional love' why not say that instead? Or, if you meant some third thing, why not say that?

It seems a bit odd to announce you have '100% Proof That Gods Do Not Exist' and then invite us to enter a guessing game about what that proof is. Some might suspect you don't know yourself.
No, universal unconditional love isn't the meaning of 'truly just', but you can't be 'truly just' without it.
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Re: 100% Proof That Gods Do Not Exist

Post by Rhodnar »

For those still having a problem with my proof, the following examples may serve to illustrate my point.

Not truly just = not a god.

Kim Jong-il considered himself to be a god incarnate. He even created a whole mythology to support his case, that all his followers believe absolutely. However; I think that we can all agree, that even if he was a god incarnate, he wasn't somebody we would want to follow into the here-after.
I know that's a bit of an extreme example, but a being cannot just call itself a god because it feels like it, and we can't call it a god because we want to. To be a god a being must first be worthy of being a god, or the term god is utterly meaningless.
Might does not make right.

Truly just = not a god.

A person sees a child drowning in a lake and dives into the lake and rescues the child. On the News that night the person is called a hero, and says “I'm not a hero. I just did what anybody else would have done.”.
A truly just being feels the same way “I'm no different from anybody else. I'm just a being.”.

I hope that helps, but I have to admit, that the News will still call the person a hero and you'll still believe in gods.
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Immanuel Can
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Re: 100% Proof That Gods Do Not Exist

Post by Immanuel Can »

Dontaskme wrote: Sun Jun 25, 2017 4:35 pm Yes, I agree with everything you've said here. I guess what I was trying to say is one can lead a horse to water, but can't make it drink, only the horse can drink, we can't drink for the horse.
As the kids say, "True dat."
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