How do Christians Expect to Convert Atheists?

Is there a God? If so, what is She like?

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surreptitious57
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Re: How do Christians Expect to Convert Atheists?

Post by surreptitious57 » Sun Jul 16, 2017 5:02 am

ken wrote:
WHY should I be providing clarifying answers when you do not provide clarifying answers
Have you actually read all of my posts in this thread because if not then why ask that question
I think you are answering posts of two or three pages back so you cannot have read all of them

ken
Posts: 2032
Joined: Mon May 09, 2016 4:14 am

Re: How do Christians Expect to Convert Atheists?

Post by ken » Sun Jul 16, 2017 5:15 am

surreptitious57 wrote:
Sat Jul 15, 2017 7:27 am
ken wrote:
If you know how to and thus can easily avoid not letting the frustration emotion be experienced then why do you just not let any of the negative
or not wanted emotions be experienced at all ? Sounds rather non human and machine like if you could so easily not experience emotions as you
are trying to suggest here. Why do you not just experience only all the emotions that you want to experience
I was referring to one emotion in a specific context so I was not speaking in a general sense.
You also said that you do NOT get frustrated? I then asked you if you ever experience frustration feelings when others ignore you, or dismiss what you say and you said that does not happen to you. That is great as I said earlier. I wanted you to share this secret of how you do it, but you do not want to. I am sure there are plenty of parents out there who experience feelings of frustration when trying to tell their children to do things and the children just ignore them or dismiss what the parent is saying, and vice-versa. So, I am sure there are plenty of people who want to know your secret but obviously you do not want to share that knowledge with others. So be it.
surreptitious57 wrote:
Sat Jul 15, 2017 7:27 am
It was not experiencing frustration on line at the reactions of others to my words. It just does not happen. For me getting angry at signifiers on a computer screen is a waste of mental energy
and therefore not worth the effort.
Why did you now use the word 'angry'?

Why did you change what we were talking about, that being 'frustration', to now talking about being 'angry'?

Do you think, assume, or believe that I have got angry?

When are you going to stop jumping away from My clarifying questions and just answer the actual question that I ask?
surreptitious57 wrote:
Sat Jul 15, 2017 7:27 am
I usually try to keep emotions at neutral or non existent depending on whether they are good or bad ones
This is absolutely hilarious considering how it was I who was pointing out how it is actually possible to do this before but you kept on insisting that that would be an impossibility. You appear to be one of those types of people that just want to 'argue', in the sense of disagree with others no matter what they are saying.

Let us take a look at what you are doing here. Are you actually trying to say any thing at all? Are you trying to share any new or further knowledge? Or, have you just been disagreeing with just about every thing that I have to say? If you do, is it just for the sake of it or is there some other reason? What I have to say shows how a truly peaceful world can be created and reached. How to express this exactly, precisely and concisely I am just here to learn how to do better. So, what are you here for AND what is it that you want to say, show, and/or express here? What is your purpose for being here?

surreptitious57
Posts: 1575
Joined: Fri Oct 25, 2013 6:09 am

Re: How do Christians Expect to Convert Atheists?

Post by surreptitious57 » Sun Jul 16, 2017 5:21 am

ken wrote:
Do I really NEED to explain absolutely every little thing for you
Yes you really do NEED to explain absolutely every little thing because if you do not I might not truly understand what it is you are trying to say
You might also have to explain things multiple times for I might not understand the first time or I might but may forget so have to be reminded

ken
Posts: 2032
Joined: Mon May 09, 2016 4:14 am

Re: How do Christians Expect to Convert Atheists?

Post by ken » Sun Jul 16, 2017 5:26 am

surreptitious57 wrote:
Sat Jul 15, 2017 7:44 am
ken wrote:
surreptitious57 wrote:

Full control over your life would stop you from experiencing any frustration at all
Explain to all of us here how a human being can stop from experiencing an emotion
When you say that you have full and real control over your life does that not mean emotional control
But if it does not mean emotional control you cannot have full and real control over your life can you
Why do you NOT quote Me exactly how I write it?

Why do you NOT answer the questions I ask you?

Why do you change things around and NOT look at what I question you about?

See if you can understand this this time. When I say I have full and real control over My Life that means I have emotional control. However the human being part of Me, FEELS things, just like each and EVERY other human being. To NOT feel is to NOT be a full human being. Now, Me having full and real control is different than me having control. Some thing you will NEVER understand, going by the way you are going now. But on another matter. A human being can not have full and real emotional control, as in preventing emotions from arising, unless they are concentrating 100% and concentrating 100% of the time, which we all know is very unlikely to happen. A human being can only control an emotion AFTER it has arisen. For example to notice, experience, and accept a frustrating feeling when it arises is a very natural thing to do, AND, to not let that emotion control 'you', the person, is some thing that is very easily able to be done, with the KNOW-HOW.

As for the huge pre-assumption you make in the last sentence, I will let that speak for itself. I have already suggested on numerous occasions how it is far better to gain clarification and know some thing before an assumption is made.

ken
Posts: 2032
Joined: Mon May 09, 2016 4:14 am

Re: How do Christians Expect to Convert Atheists?

Post by ken » Sun Jul 16, 2017 5:32 am

surreptitious57 wrote:
Sat Jul 15, 2017 7:58 am
ken wrote:
Was the clue that I supposedly become frustrated only that you purposely instantly dismiss what I write in the hope to cause an emotional reaction
How you respond to my words is not something that I have any control over.
Is this the "justification" you try to use to yourself, which allows you to say whatever and allows you talk to others any way that you want to. Do you really believe that you can use any words you like to any person that you like and that you have no control whatsoever over how they respond?
surreptitious57 wrote:
Sat Jul 15, 2017 7:58 am
So why then would I want to cause an emotional reaction
To prove to yourself whatever it is that you accept as being true.
surreptitious57 wrote:
Sat Jul 15, 2017 7:58 am
The only emotions I have any control over are my own. How you control yours is a matter for you and you only. Nothing to do with me
Are you aware that having control over emotions and emotions arising are two separate and different issues? Or do you not accept this?

surreptitious57
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Re: How do Christians Expect to Convert Atheists?

Post by surreptitious57 » Sun Jul 16, 2017 5:36 am

ken wrote:
asked you if you ever experience frustration feelings when others ignore you or dismiss what you say and you said that does
not happen to you. That is great as I said earlier. I wanted you to share this secret of how you do it but you do not want to
There is no secret to share you just decided there was for some unknown reason
As I have explained many times I avoid other human beings and just let things be
I am only passing through here and so my time in this world is merely temporary

surreptitious57
Posts: 1575
Joined: Fri Oct 25, 2013 6:09 am

Re: How do Christians Expect to Convert Atheists?

Post by surreptitious57 » Sun Jul 16, 2017 5:43 am

ken wrote:
Why did you change what we were talking about that being frustration to now talking about being angry
Because frustration is a type of anger that is why

ken
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Re: How do Christians Expect to Convert Atheists?

Post by ken » Sun Jul 16, 2017 5:44 am

surreptitious57 wrote:
Sat Jul 15, 2017 8:19 am
ken wrote:
if you can prevent frustration feelings from arising ever again then I am sure there would be a lot of others who would love to obtain this
secret also. But if you are just saying that you will no longer feel frustration again because you came to realize that you have no influence
whatsoever over how any one else thinks then I would suggest you rethink that through a bit more
Again I was specifically referring to frustration online not in general.
So, if you have children and or grandchildren and some one online says that they want to and will fuck the shit out of those children, and then kill them very slowly and painfully in a very slow and torturous death, and that person meant it, are you suggesting that you have the ability to control, prevent, and stop ALL feelings and/or emotions from arising BEFORE they arise? Are you saying that those words would not make you respond in any way whatsoever? Are you trying to fool us and/or yourself that those words would not have some sort of influence over you?

Words do HAVE an influence.
surreptitious57 wrote:
Sat Jul 15, 2017 8:19 am
It is difficult to have any influence on anyone if you are basically a recluse
OBVIOUSLY, if you are not talking to another, then of course you would not have much influence at all over them.

Why would you say this?
surreptitious57 wrote:
Sat Jul 15, 2017 8:19 am
I am only referring to meatspace not cyberspace. Although I do not want to have any influence here either. That is not my reason for being here
What is your reason for being here, by the way?

What is your actual purpose for being online here in this forum if you do not want to influence others?

I want ALL people here to influence Me, by teaching ME and showing Me how to express better.

ken
Posts: 2032
Joined: Mon May 09, 2016 4:14 am

Re: How do Christians Expect to Convert Atheists?

Post by ken » Sun Jul 16, 2017 5:47 am

surreptitious57 wrote:
Sat Jul 15, 2017 8:27 am
ken wrote:
surreptitious57 wrote:
In brane theory photons cannot travel between universes where the brane resides on a closed string so other ones
cannot be observed [ assuming that they actually exist ] The only thing that could travel between them is gravity
Is this a known fact or just an assumption
Purely theoretical and so just an assumption
Again, WHY assume any thing when the Truth, Itself, can be observed, looked at, seen, and thus already known?

ken
Posts: 2032
Joined: Mon May 09, 2016 4:14 am

Re: How do Christians Expect to Convert Atheists?

Post by ken » Sun Jul 16, 2017 5:53 am

surreptitious57 wrote:
Sat Jul 15, 2017 8:36 am
ken wrote:
surreptitious57 wrote:
I have already said that there is only one Universe the definition of which
is ALL THERE IS but there may be within it many other smaller universes
How can a smaller one of some thing be in a larger one of the exact same
They are not the exact same as every small one is individually unique
So, how can we give a definition to a thing, but for each smaller one of that same thing is individually unique, and thus IS different?

Human beings really end up causing a lot of confusion a lot of the time when they are questioned about what it is they are actually talking about. Every time I ask clarifying questions the more puzzling their responses become. That is on the very rare occasion they respond to the actual clarifying question.

surreptitious57
Posts: 1575
Joined: Fri Oct 25, 2013 6:09 am

Re: How do Christians Expect to Convert Atheists?

Post by surreptitious57 » Sun Jul 16, 2017 5:55 am

ken wrote:
As for the huge pre assumption you make in the last sentence I will let that speak for itself. I have already suggested
on numerous occasions how it is far better to gain clarification and know some thing before an assumption is made
I asked for clarification and I got it after asking a question because I did not fully understand your position
You must explain yourself multiple times to make sure that I do fully understand what you are trying to say

ken
Posts: 2032
Joined: Mon May 09, 2016 4:14 am

Re: How do Christians Expect to Convert Atheists?

Post by ken » Sun Jul 16, 2017 5:59 am

surreptitious57 wrote:
Sat Jul 15, 2017 9:07 am
ken wrote:
How is multiverse defined in relation to how Universe is defined
Multiverse and Universe are the same
So, the response directly before this one you said that there are many universes and the smaller ones are individually unique, meaning that they are different, but now you are proposing that Multiverse and Universe are the same. Very confusing indeed.

Can you say this in a much more precise and concise way, detailing what the definitions are, and showing they can all fit together to form a picture that is some what close to what could possibly be true?

By the way you never actually defined any thing here. So, if Mulitiverse and Universe are the same, then what is the one definition that you are using?

ken
Posts: 2032
Joined: Mon May 09, 2016 4:14 am

Re: How do Christians Expect to Convert Atheists?

Post by ken » Sun Jul 16, 2017 6:04 am

surreptitious57 wrote:
Sat Jul 15, 2017 9:25 am
ken wrote:
And does a capital M and /or U make a difference from if there was a small m and / or u
The following is hypothetical : Multiverse and Universe is ALL THERE IS
We are inside a universe which is one of very many inside the Universe
An assumption, which on all accounts will be just as wrong as the assumption that a 'him' created every thing in one moment or instance.
surreptitious57 wrote:
Sat Jul 15, 2017 9:25 am
Physics books want you to read them ken for they do
not want you getting all of your information from me
Physics books, themselves, do NOT want any thing. You just want Me to read physics books so I will stop trying to clarify from you what it is that you are actually trying to say.

What is written in physics books is NOT always right, as has been proven many times so far.

surreptitious57
Posts: 1575
Joined: Fri Oct 25, 2013 6:09 am

Re: How do Christians Expect to Convert Atheists?

Post by surreptitious57 » Sun Jul 16, 2017 6:09 am

ken wrote:
What is your reason for being here by the way
What is your actual purpose for being online here in this forum if you do not want to influence others
My purpose till my final day is to learn and grow and being on this forum is a means towards that end
I am definitely not here to influence others for I do not want to rather they should be influencing me

ken
Posts: 2032
Joined: Mon May 09, 2016 4:14 am

Re: How do Christians Expect to Convert Atheists?

Post by ken » Sun Jul 16, 2017 6:13 am

surreptitious57 wrote:
Sat Jul 15, 2017 9:30 am
ken wrote:
How often do you actually read and understand the words I write
Not very often so you must try to be as clear and precise as you can
The more clear and precise you are the better I can understand you
But it does not matter how clear and precise I am you will still NOT understand Me if you accept some other thing BEFORE you hear ALL I have to say about some thing.

For example how much clearer and precise is There is only one Mind?

Could that be any clearer and/or preciser?

The truth is you do not accept it, as you accept some thing else. Thus the reason for no clarifying questions from you nor for you having any interest at all in hearing any more about this.

Can you understand that this closedness is the issue that I have really been wanting to talk about here and wanting 'you', human beings, to understand? Because when you stop being closed and become open and honest, then you will see the truth of things for "yourself". I do NOT want to tell what is true or not. I want all of you to see this by, and for, "yourself". (By the way I only use the word "yourself" as it is, although incorrect, a word that you recognize and generally have a rough idea what it means already).

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