How do Christians Expect to Convert Atheists?

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Science Fan
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How do Christians Expect to Convert Atheists?

Post by Science Fan » Mon Jun 12, 2017 12:38 am

I am an atheist in the sense I do not believe in any God, although I am fully aware that I cannot prove no God of any kind does not exist, and a God may in fact exist. I am, however, confident that Jesus was not God, and have stated this publicly on numerous occasions. This means that according to Christian scripture, I am now headed for hell, regardless of anything I shall do with the rest of my life.

"If anyone sins deliberately by rejecting the Savior after knowing the truth of forgiveness, this sin is not covered by Christ's death; there is no way to get rid of it. There will be nothing to look forward to but the terrible punishment of God's awful anger, which will consume all his enemies." (Hebrews, 10:26-27).

So, why is it that Christians even want to convert me to Christianity, when, according to their own Bible, I can never be saved because I have already committed the alleged unforgiveable sin of denying Jesus? What motive could they possibly have to convert atheists like me, who cannot go to Heaven, and are headed to Hell, even if we were to accept Jesus? Wouldn't it make more sense for Christians to actually completely ignore us atheists, since they consider us doomed anyway?

I would actually enjoy not being bothered by a Christian knocking on my door during my weekends, trying to convert me, which is why I am interested in the answer to this question.

Philosophy Explorer
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Re: How do Christians Expect to Convert Atheists?

Post by Philosophy Explorer » Mon Jun 12, 2017 2:06 am

Science Fan wrote:
Mon Jun 12, 2017 12:38 am
I am an atheist in the sense I do not believe in any God, although I am fully aware that I cannot prove no God of any kind does not exist, and a God may in fact exist. I am, however, confident that Jesus was not God, and have stated this publicly on numerous occasions. This means that according to Christian scripture, I am now headed for hell, regardless of anything I shall do with the rest of my life.

"If anyone sins deliberately by rejecting the Savior after knowing the truth of forgiveness, this sin is not covered by Christ's death; there is no way to get rid of it. There will be nothing to look forward to but the terrible punishment of God's awful anger, which will consume all his enemies." (Hebrews, 10:26-27).

So, why is it that Christians even want to convert me to Christianity, when, according to their own Bible, I can never be saved because I have already committed the alleged unforgiveable sin of denying Jesus? What motive could they possibly have to convert atheists like me, who cannot go to Heaven, and are headed to Hell, even if we were to accept Jesus? Wouldn't it make more sense for Christians to actually completely ignore us atheists, since they consider us doomed anyway?

I would actually enjoy not being bothered by a Christian knocking on my door during my weekends, trying to convert me, which is why I am interested in the answer to this question.
Could it be a form of God's punishment?

PhilX

osgart
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Re: How do Christians Expect to Convert Atheists?

Post by osgart » Mon Jun 12, 2017 2:29 am

Christians are seed planters.

kinda like farming for souls.

the bible says God wants all to be saved.

it's a matter of free will, and buying the Christian carrot.

of course, rejecting the carrot automatically makes you an enemy. and thence forward the command is to love your enemies, and pray for those who persecute you; which I've never witnessed anyone ever doing that. especially Christians.

personally I think Christianity is a business, coverting as a religion.

very few people take the Bible and follow it word for word.

Dontaskme
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Re: How do Christians Expect to Convert Atheists?

Post by Dontaskme » Mon Jun 12, 2017 10:57 am

Science Fan wrote:
Mon Jun 12, 2017 12:38 am
I am an atheist
Who makes this claim?

1: I Am

2: I Am an atheist


Dear Science Fan which of those I Am claims is real ?

Science Fan
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Re: How do Christians Expect to Convert Atheists?

Post by Science Fan » Mon Jun 12, 2017 3:26 pm

Dontaskme: Your comment was nothing more than a personal attack, which is a fallacy, by the way. Do that again, and I'll place you on my "foe" list, which means that I won't have to look at your comments in the future. I'm an adult, and have zero interest in engaging in personal insults on any social media platform. I would also note that I made a specific reference to a specific religious passage to support my argument.

Science Fan
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Re: How do Christians Expect to Convert Atheists?

Post by Science Fan » Mon Jun 12, 2017 3:29 pm

Osgart: I'm not sure where the Bible states that God wants us all to be saved. Especially since the Bible contains the passage that I referenced, which states that once a person rejects Jesus as lord and savior, then that person, even if he later accepts Jesus as lord and savior, is still headed for hell. I'm just curious why Christians spend time trying to convert anyone who is already destined for hell, even if they accept Jesus. Seems like a waste of time to me, and also dishonest.

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Re: How do Christians Expect to Convert Atheists?

Post by Science Fan » Mon Jun 12, 2017 3:31 pm

PhilX: Are you referring to the people knocking on my door trying to convert me as punishment? It just seems to me to be a waste of time for any Christian to try to convert someone who is destined for hell even if they do accept Jesus. I also have never seen any Christian missionary point this out to the person they are trying to convert, which adds an element of dishonesty to the conversion process. I doubt that many people would convert if they were told they were going to hell anyone, because they rejected Jesus in the past.

ken
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Re: How do Christians Expect to Convert Atheists?

Post by ken » Mon Jun 12, 2017 4:01 pm

Science Fan wrote:
Mon Jun 12, 2017 12:38 am
I am an atheist in the sense I do not believe in any God, although I am fully aware that I cannot prove no God of any kind does not exist, and a God may in fact exist.
Your saying, and correct Me if I am wrong;

You do not believe in any God. And,
You have no evidence that God does not exist.
Therefore, God may in fact exist.

My question to you is, Why believe in some thing that may actually be false?

(By the way, do not think about what you believe in, just concentrate on answering the question itself.)
Science Fan wrote:
Mon Jun 12, 2017 12:38 am
I am, however, confident that Jesus was not God, and have stated this publicly on numerous occasions.
If you are confident that jesus was not God, then you must be confident about what God IS. So, what IS God?

Or, if you do not know what God is but you only know what God is not as you appear confident about, then what else is God not?
Science Fan wrote:
Mon Jun 12, 2017 12:38 am
This means that according to Christian scripture, I am now headed for hell, regardless of anything I shall do with the rest of my life.
Could your interpretation of christian scripture be wrong?

Could, in fact, you already be in hell?
Science Fan wrote:
Mon Jun 12, 2017 12:38 am
"If anyone sins deliberately by rejecting the Savior after knowing the truth of forgiveness, this sin is not covered by Christ's death; there is no way to get rid of it. There will be nothing to look forward to but the terrible punishment of God's awful anger, which will consume all his enemies." (Hebrews, 10:26-27).
A few questions here;

What is meant by 'sins'?
How exactly do you reject the savior?
If there is a second coming could you become more enlightened to the scriptures then?
Do you know the truth of forgiveness? If so, what is it?
What is the actual 'sin' that will not be covered by christ's death, and how and why it is that there is no way to get rid of that sin?
What do you imagine God's "awful" anger would look like and how that anger would actually consume all of It's enemies?
Could God show anger by consuming It's enemies with love?
Who/what are God's enemies?
By the way I still do not know why human beings persist with calling God a he, so why do you call God a he?

Once the words that are written are fully understood, then answering all these types of questions is really very simple and easy. The answers by the way are just about nothing like that what you assume them to be also. Unless of course you can prove Me wrong here.
Science Fan wrote:
Mon Jun 12, 2017 12:38 am
So, why is it that Christians even want to convert me to Christianity, when, according to their own Bible, I can never be saved because I have already committed the alleged unforgiveable sin of denying Jesus?
Human beings who call themselves, and thus are labelled, as "christians" are no more wiser to the meanings of the words (the scriptures) in the bible as you are. Most just think and say they are wiser.

The reason these human beings want to convert you to what they believe is for the exact same reason you want to convert others to what you believe. ALL adult human beings (mis)behave this way. You all think you are wiser than you really are.
Science Fan wrote:
Mon Jun 12, 2017 12:38 am
What motive could they possibly have to convert atheists like me, who cannot go to Heaven, and are headed to Hell, even if we were to accept Jesus? Wouldn't it make more sense for Christians to actually completely ignore us atheists, since they consider us doomed anyway?
What motive could you possibly have to convert "others" not like you, who cannot go to where you are going, and who are naturally headed on another path from you, even if they were to accept you (your word)? Would it not make more sense for others to actually completely ignore you, since they consider you (partly or mostly) wrong anyway?
Science Fan wrote:
Mon Jun 12, 2017 12:38 am
I would actually enjoy not being bothered by a Christian knocking on my door during my weekends, trying to convert me, which is why I am interested in the answer to this question.
Well answer the question of why you do it, openly and honestly, then you will KNOW why they do it.

Have you ever considered that others would also actually enjoy not being bothered by you, who has your own distorted beliefs,"knocking on their door" (or in other words talking to them) during any day, trying to convert them?

Have you not noticed any resemblance between you on here, in this forum, in how you try to convert others, to your way of thinking, from how others try to convert you, to their way of thinking?

I see the exact same thing going on with all of you. You, all, believe in things, and to maintain those beliefs you, all, try to convert "others" to see the same way as you do.

If instead of functioning this way, with a very narrow field of view to see things, and you opened up the way you looked at things, then you would see things for what they truly are. The more open you are the more you can see. So, if you are fully open, then ALL is revealed and seen.

Science Fan
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Re: How do Christians Expect to Convert Atheists?

Post by Science Fan » Mon Jun 12, 2017 4:42 pm

Why believe in something that may actually be false? Since everything a person believes in "may" be false, that implied argument would rule out any and all beliefs, right? That's so impractical, that as a practical matter, I cannot live my life that way.
Moreover, if your claim is that I should believe in a god because I cannot prove a god does not exist, I don't see things that way. Since I see no credible evidence for a god, it is more rational to not believe in one, than to do so given the absence of evidence.
Last edited by Science Fan on Mon Jun 12, 2017 4:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Philosophy Explorer
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Re: How do Christians Expect to Convert Atheists?

Post by Philosophy Explorer » Mon Jun 12, 2017 4:45 pm

Science Fan wrote:
Mon Jun 12, 2017 4:42 pm
Why believe in something that may actually be false? Since everything a person believes in "may" be false, that implied argument would rule out any and all beliefs, right? That's so impractical, that as a practical matter, I cannot live my life that way.
Moreover, if your claim is that I should believe in a god because I cannot prove a god exists, I don't see things that way. Since I see no credible evidence for a god, it is more rational to not believe in one, than to do so given the absence of evidence.
Because the other side is it may actually be true, no matter what you believe.

PhilX

Science Fan
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Re: How do Christians Expect to Convert Atheists?

Post by Science Fan » Mon Jun 12, 2017 4:56 pm

That's Pascal's Wager argument. If you want to go that route, then no Christian should believe in God because they can most definitely be wrong, but I doubt Christians would go around making that argument as part of Christian dogma.

Pascal's Wager does not provide a rational reason for any belief in God, because, by its own terms, it tells us that a person who picks the wrong god could end up in hell, and it provides nothing to tell anyone which specific god-claim to believe in.

It's rational to believe in god if there is credible evidence for god. I personally see no such evidence, so it makes no more sense for me to believe in a god than it does for me to believe in unicorns, or trolls who live under bridges.

osgart
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Re: How do Christians Expect to Convert Atheists?

Post by osgart » Tue Jun 13, 2017 12:04 am

first Timothy 2:4. science fan.

and also Paul was an enemy of Christians, before he became an apostle.

that's why they say love your enemies, pray for those who persecute you. that is Matthew 5:44

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Immanuel Can
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Re: How do Christians Expect to Convert Atheists?

Post by Immanuel Can » Tue Jun 13, 2017 3:11 am

Science Fan wrote:
Mon Jun 12, 2017 3:29 pm
...the Bible contains the passage that I referenced, which states that once a person rejects Jesus as lord and savior, then that person, even if he later accepts Jesus as lord and savior, is still headed for hell.
You're misreading, I'm afraid. That's the danger of not reading the whole book, but just pinching a little segment out of it.

Read around, and you'll see it's not a one-and-done proposition. If it had been, the Apostle Paul would never have become a Christian...he made the same choice you did. But later, he reversed his position and became an apostle. Likewise, you still would have time to make a different choice, should you decide to do so.

However, you are correct in this: determined and unrelenting rejection of Jesus Christ is indeed fatal, if practiced all the way until death.

So the answer to your question...
I'm just curious why Christians spend time trying to convert anyone who is already destined for hell, even if they accept Jesus.
...is based on a wrong assumption. The Hebrews passage you quote is taken out of context. Here's the stuff around it:

For if we go on sinning willfully after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, 27 but a terrifying expectation of judgment and the fury of a fire which will consume the adversaries. 28 Anyone who has set aside the Law of Moses dies without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. 29 How much severer punishment do you think he will deserve who has trampled under foot the Son of God, and has regarded as unclean the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified, and has insulted the Spirit of grace?

This passage is addressing Hebrew (Jewish) people who, having once realized Messiah has come, might be tempted to retreat into keeping the Law of Moses in hopes of being saved that way. The instruction in the passage is that the Law of Moses will not longer save such person, since they already know better.

Thus, unless you are a First-Century Jew emerging from the Old Covenant, and who is tempted to return to it, you're not in view in this passage. There are others that are more applicable to your situation, but this isn't one of them.

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Immanuel Can
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Re: How do Christians Expect to Convert Atheists?

Post by Immanuel Can » Tue Jun 13, 2017 3:16 am

Science Fan wrote:
Mon Jun 12, 2017 12:38 am
...a Christian knocking on my door during my weekends, trying to convert me...
In most cases, that's not "Christians" per se.

Usually, that's either the Jehovah's Witness sect or the Mormons...neither of which are "Christians" in any generally-accepted sense. Neither recognizes the other, and neither is recognized by the larger Christian community, due to essentially antithetical or heretical beliefs they hold. The Book of Mormon (Mormons) and the New World Translation (JW's) are rejected by the larger Christian community as well, since they fail to conform to any manuscript traditions any Christian theology in any reasonable measure.

Just so you know.

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Immanuel Can
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Re: How do Christians Expect to Convert Atheists?

Post by Immanuel Can » Tue Jun 13, 2017 3:24 am

Science Fan wrote:
Mon Jun 12, 2017 4:56 pm
Pascal's Wager does not provide a rational reason for any belief in God, because, by its own terms, it tells us that a person who picks the wrong god could end up in hell, and it provides nothing to tell anyone which specific god-claim to believe in.
That's a poor argument against the Wager. It misunderstands the Wager itself.

The Wager is not designed to exposit the specific nature of God, just to show the inadvisability of remaining an Atheist. The question of which kind of God is not being answered there; and you can't really fault a first-level argument for failing to resolve a second-level question that it was not even trying to address.

Now, that doesn't mean the second-level question isn't a good one, or that once one understands the Wager one wouldn't want to go on to it. I think that's perfectly reasonable. But it doesn't point to any fault in the Wager itself, only to the fact that the Wager is only the first step in a chain of reasoning that a person will need to do.

Now, that second-level question can be resolved, I would say; but that's not the function of the Wager itself. The Wager is perfectly good for the limited purpose it proposes to serve. It simply shows that Atheism is inevitably a bad proposition.

And that's fair enough.

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