If God is omnipotent, can he destroy himself?

[Immanuel Can]

Do you like blue? I do!

Blue is quite nice...an eminently reasonable colour. Normal font is also a nice change.

[SpheresOfBalance]

Do you like blue? I do!

Blue is quite nice...an eminently reasonable colour. Normal font is also a nice change.

WHAT?? I couldn't quite make that out! SAY AGAIN!

[SpheresOfBalance]

Tear this up, shred it!

OK, I'll tell you the truth. The real creator of all the universe told and showed me that all of those religious of the past have lied, that it has never made it self known to humans prior to me. That all of you speak of a false god that was manufactured out of thin air by those that created the lie in the first place. That's my proof that you cannot know of the one true creator. Now what say you? And be honest!

You know you lost!

Admit it!!

[Immanuel Can]

You know you lost!

Admit it!!

Stages to "Win" with a Bad Argument on the PN Board:

1. Stop making propositions, and start insulting the various posters. Allege things you can't prove, and distract from the main issue if you can.

2. Intensify. Use BIG fonts, colours, multiple redundant emoticons and exclamation points. Stay off topic.

3. Swear and use obscenities. Ignore responses, and pretend they never happened.

4. Unilaterally declare victory, then retire the field.

Congratulations. You have now reached stage 4.

[SpheresOfBalance]

You know you lost!

Admit it!!

Stages to "Win" with a Bad Argument on the PN Board:

1. Stop making propositions, and start insulting the various posters. Allege things you can't prove, and distract from the main issue if you can.

2. Intensify. Use BIG fonts, colours, multiple redundant emoticons and exclamation points. Stay off topic.

3. Swear and use obscenities. Ignore responses, and pretend they never happened.

4. Unilaterally declare victory, then retire the field.

Congratulations. You have now reached stage 4.

The liar again lies, what a surprise!

SHRED IT! GO AHEAD SHRED IT!

OK, I'll tell you the truth. The real creator of all the universe told and showed me that all of those religious of the past have lied, that it has never made it self known to humans prior to me. That all of you speak of a false god that was manufactured out of thin air by those that created the lie in the first place. That's my proof that you cannot know of the one true creator. Now what say you? And be honest!

There, it's now easier to read, SHRED IT! TEAR IT APART!

You can't as then you shred your own shit!

COWARD!!!

[Immanuel Can]

There, it's now easier to read, SHRED IT! TEAR IT APART!

You can't as then you shred your own shit!

COWARD!!!
[/size]

Already did. But you didn't notice. You were too busy ranting and screaming.

I wrote:

If you say that has happened, I have no way of knowing if you're lying. I can only say that God has said differently in the Bible and has exhibited things differently in my experience. But I cannot tell you what you saw -- delusion, vision, prophecy or you're being merely ironic, trying to employ reduction ad absurdum fallacy.

I can doubt you and question you, but I cannot disprove. I don't know where you were, and I don't know what really happened to you, if anything. In goodwill, if I take you seriously, I will have to accept that you sincerely believe what you say happened to you.

But I'll bet you know whether or not that's true.

You know. And I have a pretty good guess.

But it's also true that nobody can say what another person knows or does not know, unless the skeptic in question can provide specific reasons for their insight. And you've provided nothing plausible. We have no reason to think that knowledge must begin and end with what you know, no reason to think you know anything about Kampala, or about any other subject any other person knows, or about what the limitations of human knowledge or experience are. If thedoc has had an experience, and if it turns out he has but you haven't, what more can we say about that except it makes you enraged and jealous to think he's getting any opportunity you're not. But your jealousy ain't an argument.

And that's the point. All your nonsense about "there is no evidence" simply boils down to this: that you have no evidence of the existence of God, and you can't stand the thought that anybody else ever would. But there isn't anything we Theists can do to make you feel better, since you're already uninterested in finding out for yourself. So you're really on your own.

Good luck, I suppose. What else can I say?

[Vendetta]

You know you lost!

Admit it!!

Stages to "Win" with a Bad Argument on the PN Board:

1. Stop making propositions, and start insulting the various posters. Allege things you can't prove, and distract from the main issue if you can.

2. Intensify. Use BIG fonts, colours, multiple redundant emoticons and exclamation points. Stay off topic.

3. Swear and use obscenities. Ignore responses, and pretend they never happened.

4. Unilaterally declare victory, then retire the field.

Congratulations. You have now reached stage 4.

The liar again lies, what a surprise!

SHRED IT! GO AHEAD SHRED IT!

OK, I'll tell you the truth. The real creator of all the universe told and showed me that all of those religious of the past have lied, that it has never made it self known to humans prior to me. That all of you speak of a false god that was manufactured out of thin air by those that created the lie in the first place. That's my proof that you cannot know of the one true creator. Now what say you? And be honest!

There, it's now easier to read, SHRED IT! TEAR IT APART!

You can't as then you shred your own shit!

COWARD!!!

Hey! Buddy! He's already answered! If you say you win, fine, but he's not going to bite! Stop jumping threads!

Sorry IC, but this is borderline harassment.

[Immanuel Can]

[quote=Vendetta}

Hey! Buddy! He's already answered! If you say you win, fine, but he's not going to bite! Stop jumping threads!

Sorry IC, but this is borderline harassment.

Don't worry, V.

The instrument has yet to be invented that can measure how small the amount of concern he's occasioned me by all his ranting really is. I'm happy to talk with him, because honestly...he doesn't perturb me one bit.

[SpheresOfBalance]

There, it's now easier to read, SHRED IT! TEAR IT APART!

You can't as then you shred your own shit!

COWARD!!!
[/size]

Already did. But you didn't notice. You were too busy ranting and screaming.

I wrote:

If you say that has happened, I have no way of knowing if you're lying.
Exactly, same as your tired old story!

I can only say that God has said differently in the Bible
Incorrect, men wrote the bible not god. You don't even know the facts of your own religion


and has exhibited things differently in my experience.
Yet you fear mentioning these exhibitions, or it surely seems so, as then opponents scrutiny would set it.

But I cannot tell you what you saw -- delusion, vision, prophecy or you're being merely ironic, trying to employ reduction ad absurdum fallacy.
Ditto, my friend ditto!


I can doubt you and question you, but I cannot disprove.
Imagine that!

I don't know where you were, and I don't know what really happened to you, if anything.
Nope you don't.


In goodwill, if I take you seriously, I will have to accept that you sincerely believe what you say happened to you.
'Believe' for me; 'know' for you? I don't think so. I 'know' what it said, and it said you and all yours were phonies! Simply fearful of death, the lot of you!


But I'll bet you know whether or not that's true.

Well that's a no-brainer. And I bet you know if it's 'knowing' or simply 'believing' in your god that is in fact your truth. But then that's a no-brainer too isn't it? So what's the point in stating it?


You know. And I have a pretty good guess.
Ditto, my friend, Ditto!

But it's also true that nobody can say what another person knows or does not know,
They can if someone that knows tells them the truth.

unless the skeptic in question can provide specific reasons for their insight.
I gave you a perfectly good reason, the true creator told and showed me your religion was false.


And you've provided nothing plausible.
Neither have you!

We have no reason to think that knowledge must begin and end with what you know,
Nor you!

no reason to think you know anything about Kampala,
What is your problem? I said I don't know, and that I don't care. There you go seeming daft again! Pay attention. OK, seriously, do you have a problem with your memory? Because I don't want to abuse you for some physical/mental defect you might have.

or about any other subject any other person knows,
True that we are all ignorant of some bits of knowledge others have.

or about what the limitations of human knowledge or experience are.
Sure humans are limited, but that doesn't mean that one can present something unprovable, as if it's fact, and get away with it, especially in a philosophy forum, which is all about knowledge!

If thedoc has had an experience, and if it turns out he has
I never rejected the fact that he had an experience, I just rejected that it was 'conclusive' (certain) 'proof' of his god. No one with half a mind would accept it as such.

but you haven't,
Had his experience?? How could anyone experience, in exactly the same way, any such event! It's impossible! He obviously added his belief to that which could have easily been something else. He branded an event with his flavor! Understand?

what more can we say about that except it makes you enraged and jealous to think he's getting any opportunity you're not. But your jealousy ain't an argument.
No that's a projection of your minds rational, that you are using to try and belittle me. In fact you can't know how I see or feel about his particular experience. You can only ever know how you felt about it. And in so doing, can know at least one way someone might see it. And that's the fullest extent of your ability, other than speculation as to other possibilities! Of course in my case, you're certainly incorrect! There is no reason to be jealous of his experience as it's been disqualified.

And that's the point.
What point? You've made no point!

All your nonsense about "there is no evidence"
Speak of it then!

simply boils down to this: that you have no evidence of the existence of God,
No not your phony god, as the one true creator has shown and told me that all the claims thus far by humans have been lies. That they've either created them or blindly followed them for over 2000 years!

and you can't stand the thought that anybody else ever would.
Nope, nobody else has!

But there isn't anything we Theists can do to make you feel better,
You so called theists are liars, so you could never make me feel better. Of course you can 'believe' in your "god" but it's impossible for you to 'know' of him. And I take comfort in that.

since you're already uninterested in finding out for yourself.
Yet I have found out, or so I've been told/shown, but I'll still claim to be an agnostic until such time that it makes itself known to all of humanity, it said as much, as it loves all that it created, it has no favorites, it shall make all known to all equally as it loves all! With the current state of humanity if it decides it's necessary it shall make a grand attempt to change mankind's ways for it's own good!

So you're really on your own.
Actually you're on your own for clinging to that lie that you can 'know' your "god" and not simply "believe" in him.


Good luck, I suppose. What else can I say?
Thanks, but no luck is required. I have my impeccable logic and commonsense. It shall quite possibly be clear to you all very soon. The universe shall speak and be seen by all.

[Immanuel Can]

Good luck, I suppose. What else can I say?
Thanks, but no luck is required. I have my impeccable logic and commonsense. It shall quite possibly be clear to you all very soon. The universe shall speak and be seen by all.

"The universe will speak"? Will it wear striped socks too? For the two statements are equally anthropomorphic, and equally implausible, from your own declared worldview. Moreover, according to your view, "all" shall not see anything. "All" shall be dead, long ago, when heat death overtakes the universe and swallows all activity whole forever, according to your view.

But if I'm right then this much of what you say is right: we shall know. And not "the universe," but God Himself will make us to know.

In sum, if we know anything at that point, then you were wrong. If you're right at the moment, then nobody will ever know it.

If we know about it, then I will be shown right. We won't if you are.

I feel in a good position there.

I guess we'll see.

Good luck. You'll actually need all of that...and more.

[SpheresOfBalance]

Stages to "Win" with a Bad Argument on the PN Board:

1. Stop making propositions, and start insulting the various posters. Allege things you can't prove, and distract from the main issue if you can.

2. Intensify. Use BIG fonts, colours, multiple redundant emoticons and exclamation points. Stay off topic.

3. Swear and use obscenities. Ignore responses, and pretend they never happened.

4. Unilaterally declare victory, then retire the field.

Congratulations. You have now reached stage 4.

The liar again lies, what a surprise!

SHRED IT! GO AHEAD SHRED IT!

OK, I'll tell you the truth. The real creator of all the universe told and showed me that all of those religious of the past have lied, that it has never made it self known to humans prior to me. That all of you speak of a false god that was manufactured out of thin air by those that created the lie in the first place. That's my proof that you cannot know of the one true creator. Now what say you? And be honest!

There, it's now easier to read, SHRED IT! TEAR IT APART!

You can't as then you shred your own shit!

COWARD!!!

Hey! Buddy! He's already answered!
Finally!

If you say you win, fine,
Don't take it so hard that you opened mouth and inserted foot, it's no biggie.

but he's not going to bite!
Yet you just said he did. I know this can be confusing to some, slow down and take it easy, you're OK! Confused but OK.

Stop jumping threads!
No jumping! The question of your phony gods existence is pertinent in any thread about said phony god, Right? Logical? You can't run and hide in another thread to pander your phony god. This is a philosophy forum, which deals with truth honesty and the pursuit of actual knowledge, not 2000 plus years of unsubstantiated belief! That crap is cheap indeed!

Sorry IC, but this is borderline harassment.
I an speak on any thread that I want, ask Rick if anyone is excluded from any thread.

I'll tell you what son, you treat me with respect, and I'll do the same for you. Be a man and argue your own arguments, instead of simply existing in the shadows of your BUDDY! And we all know what that means, right?

Cool?

[SpheresOfBalance]

Good luck, I suppose. What else can I say?
Thanks, but no luck is required. I have my impeccable logic and commonsense. It shall quite possibly be clear to you all very soon. The universe shall speak and be seen by all.

"The universe will speak"? Will it wear striped socks too? For the two statements are equally anthropomorphic, and equally implausible, from your own declared worldview.
Are you familiar with metaphor, apparently not. As it requires at least a high school education.

For the ignorant:
metaphor [met-uh-fawr, -fer]
noun
1. a figure of speech in which a term or phrase is applied to something to which it is not literally applicable in order to suggest a resemblance, as in “A mighty fortress is our God.”.

There, now that I've educated you! Feel better?

Moreover, according to your view, "all" shall not see anything. "All" shall be dead, long ago, when heat death overtakes the universe and swallows all activity whole forever, according to your view.
So now it seems that you've lost it. Speaking in absurdities again!

But if I'm right then this much of what you say is right: we shall know. And not "the universe," but God Himself will make us to know.
And now you profess to speak for your god, which is exactly what I've been saying all this time, he's just a figment of your imagination. Surely, if you believe you can actually speak for him. Sorry, but your god is a lie!

In sum, if we know anything at that point, then you were wrong.
What point? Are you also making up points in it's time? I guess you are your god then, I stand corrected.

If you're right at the moment, then nobody will ever know it.
I can only ever be right or wrong in this moment. While it can be right at any moment.

If we know about it, then I will be shown right. We won't if you are.
Hey don't look at me I'm just the messenger. You'll have to take your problem with time up with the creator.

I feel in a good position there.
It would seem that you're all over the board, but if that makes you somehow feel better go for it!


I guess we'll see.
Actually you seem to be pretty blind so you may have a problem.


Good luck. You'll actually need all of that...and more.
So says he that believes in a false god! better check again!

Now, what's your god going to do? Hear voices in your head much?

[surreptitious57]

You trust your sense of being and your ability to reason and think as real

I do because I have no reason not to. Now that does not automatically mean my sense of being is real just that there is no evidence to
suggest other wise. And that is what informs my decision on the matter. And indeed on all matters of a physical nature. You obviously
think differently but I have no control over how others think only how I think. But even if I am wrong and my sense of being is not real
and is in fact an illusion it is one so convincing that to all intents and purposes may as well be real. So either way I treat it as if it were

[surreptitious57]

A phenomenon genuinely observed by one observer would be sufficient for that one person to have warranted belief that it actually happened

The only difference between personal testimony and scientific testimony is ones faith in scientists and lack of faith in other persons

A phenomenon genuinely observed by one person would indeed be sufficient for them to think it happened. But it would not be sufficient for someone else that in the absence of evidence would be sceptical of it having happened. And also not all observations are genuinely observed Subjective interpretation can compromise the accuracy of the memory of the observer such as an altered mental state due to a psychological disorder or drugs. Or something relatively benign such as confirmation bias. This is why all single person perspectives are scientifically invalid Multiple or inter subjective perspectives are far more reliable for they reduce very significantly if not absolutely all of the above. Specifically those of scientists who are trained to be as bias free as possible

[surreptitious57]

My own philosophy with regard to accepting anything that exists is that there must be evidence for it. And I accept that science is not an absolute discipline but it is the best there is. Now I have no problem with anyone else thinking or believing what they want to whether this be God or Mind
or indeed anything else. But there must be a base line to operate from in order to acquire knowledge and understanding of the universe. And this
base line must be grounded in sound principles so that said knowledge and understanding is as accurate as possible. And for me the principles are evidence and proof and logic and reason. Others here might disagree with this but like I said it is my philosophy. I fully accept in principle I could be wrong and absolutely so too with regard to all of this. That God exists. That minds do not exist. Only Mind. As well as anything else that others here or elsewhere for that matter may think or believe. I only reject what others here think or believe as I see no reason not to think [ I do not do belief ] what they think or believe. Although this is not set in stone as my mind can be changed at any time when there is justification for doing so