A nice quiet thread about christianity.

Is there a God? If so, what is She like?

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uwot
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A nice quiet thread about christianity.

Post by uwot »

Two and a half thousand years ago, the Greek philosopher Xenophanes made this observation:

But mortals suppose gods are born,
Wear their own clothes and have a voice and body.
The Ethiopians say that their gods are flat-nosed and black,
While Thracians say that theirs have blue eyes and red hair.
Yet if cattle or horses or lions had hands and could draw,
And could sculpt like men, then the horses would draw their gods
Like horses, and cattle like cattle; and each would shape
Bodies of gods in the likeness, each of their own kind.

That is still true today of Jesus Christ.
Christianity is a very broad church. Many of its adherents are good, honest and humble.
But then there are others for whom christianity is the absolute perfection of narcissism, because every such christian believes that Christ thinks exactly as they do; loves them like no other and will be thrilled to spend eternity in their company.
There are also those christians who claim that their interpretation of the bible is the right one. This is not only narcissistic, but dishonest, because few such loudmouths have actually read the bible; even fewer have done with any intention other than confirming their own bias.
And some people who call themselves christians are pitiful, because all they want to hear is that god exists. As long as that is asserted, they switch off their critical faculties and blindly follow the loudmouth.
Walker
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Re: A nice quiet thread about christianity.

Post by Walker »

uwot wrote:Two and a half thousand years ago, the Greek philosopher Xenophanes made this observation:

But mortals suppose gods are born,
Wear their own clothes and have a voice and body.
The Ethiopians say that their gods are flat-nosed and black,
While Thracians say that theirs have blue eyes and red hair.
Yet if cattle or horses or lions had hands and could draw,
And could sculpt like men, then the horses would draw their gods
Like horses, and cattle like cattle; and each would shape
Bodies of gods in the likeness, each of their own kind.

That is still true today of Jesus Christ.
Christianity is a very broad church. Many of its adherents are good, honest and humble.
But then there are others for whom christianity is the absolute perfection of narcissism, because every such christian believes that Christ thinks exactly as they do; loves them like no other and will be thrilled to spend eternity in their company.
There are also those christians who claim that their interpretation of the bible is the right one. This is not only narcissistic, but dishonest, because few such loudmouths have actually read the bible; even fewer have done with any intention other than confirming their own bias.
And some people who call themselves christians are pitiful, because all they want to hear is that god exists. As long as that is asserted, they switch off their critical faculties and blindly follow the loudmouth.
In this scheme of things, do any Christians murder in the name of Jesus?
uwot
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Re: A nice quiet thread about christianity.

Post by uwot »

Walker wrote:In this scheme of things, do any Christians murder in the name of Jesus?
Certainly people murder in the name of Jesus https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_terrorism . The perpetrators would call themselves Christians, and in all likelihood, sincerely believe that they are doing the work of Jesus. As I said, Christianity is a broad church, and as is true of most populations, the majority are decent people, but belief in Jesus demonstrably does not automatically lead to greater moral responsibility.
Walker
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Re: A nice quiet thread about christianity.

Post by Walker »

Then their actions are inconsistent with the teachings of Christ, upon which Christianity is founded.

In other words, an interpretation of Christ's teachings as a moral authority to murder corrupts the teachings.

If those of a religion murder, and their actions are consistent with the teachings of the religion, then the religion is not corrupted.
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Dontaskme
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Re: A nice quiet thread about christianity.

Post by Dontaskme »

uwot wrote: And some people who call themselves christians are pitiful, because all they want to hear is that god exists. As long as that is asserted, they switch off their critical faculties and blindly follow the loudmouth.
So please explain the alternative ?

If Jesus wasn't the God in the form of Man...he said he was...why bother proving that by his selfless sacrifice on the cross...why would he have so gracefully given his life if there was any doubt whatsoever in his mind that what he said was truth or a lie? ...why would he make that sacrifice if it was all a lie?...did he not demonstrate by selfless example a fearless unshakeable faith in his Father's unconditional love and promise.

Which was...

"I am the resurrection and the life; the one believing in Me, even if he should die, he will live.'' ..why would he die for a lie ?

What's the alternative way to live for a human being if not to have a gratitude and a humble obedient heart to a life that has given us life.?


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uwot
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Re: A nice quiet thread about christianity.

Post by uwot »

Walker wrote:Then their actions are inconsistent with the teachings of Christ, upon which Christianity is founded.
If that is something you feel strongly about, then you should take it up with the people calling themselves Christians who are committing acts you think are are incompatible with what they believe.
Walker wrote:In other words, an interpretation of Christ's teachings as a moral authority to murder corrupts the teachings.

If those of a religion murder, and their actions are consistent with the teachings of the religion, then the religion is not corrupted.
The thing is, if you are going to base Christianity solely on the teachings attributed to Christ, you have to reject all of the Old Testament and bits of the New. There is plenty material in the OT which can be interpreted as justification for violence.
Walker
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Re: A nice quiet thread about christianity.

Post by Walker »

Christians interpret the OT in the light of Christ’s teachings.

Jews interpret the OT in the light of Judaism.

If they don’t, they’re wrong.
Walker
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Re: A nice quiet thread about christianity.

Post by Walker »

uwot wrote:
Walker wrote:Then their actions are inconsistent with the teachings of Christ, upon which Christianity is founded.
If that is something you feel strongly about ...
Keep it honest and you just might have your nice, quiet thread.

This is an intellectual analysis, Bub.

Not yet another opportunity to bait and be an asshole.
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Arising_uk
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Re: A nice quiet thread about christianity.

Post by Arising_uk »

Dontaskme wrote:...

If Jesus wasn't the God in the form of Man...he said he was...why bother proving that by his selfless sacrifice on the cross...why would he have so gracefully given his life if there was any doubt whatsoever in his mind that what he said was truth or a lie? ...why would he make that sacrifice if it was all a lie?...did he not demonstrate by selfless example a fearless unshakeable faith in his Father's unconditional love and promise. ...
Er! No, "Eli, Eli, lema sabachthani?" And he didn't exactly have much of a choice about giving his life as the Romans were quite particular about such things.
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Arising_uk
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Re: A nice quiet thread about christianity.

Post by Arising_uk »

Walker wrote:Christians interpret the OT in the light of Christ’s teachings.

Jews interpret the OT in the light of Judaism.

If they don’t, they’re wrong.
Whose to say these interpretations are correct or incorrect? And who needs the OT as if Luke 19:27: is correct the loons can kill those they believe are unbelievers and they would be christian in this respect.
Walker
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Re: A nice quiet thread about christianity.

Post by Walker »

Arising_uk wrote:
Walker wrote:Christians interpret the OT in the light of Christ’s teachings.

Jews interpret the OT in the light of Judaism.

If they don’t, they’re wrong.
Whose to say these interpretations are correct or incorrect? And who needs the OT as if Luke 19:27: is correct the loons can kill those they believe are unbelievers and they would be christian in this respect.
Did you also find this in your research?

The Mis-interpretation of Luke 19:27
http://theheraldofgrace.blogspot.com/20 ... -1927.html

Proper interpretation is found in the meaning and context of the words, not opinion.

This is why Christianity is not called Old Testamentitty.
(You see, the root word is Christ)
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Arising_uk
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Re: A nice quiet thread about christianity.

Post by Arising_uk »

Walker wrote:...
Proper interpretation is found in the meaning and context of the words, not opinion.

This is why Christianity is not called Old Testamentitty.
(You see, the root word is Christ)
And yet when I read the story and it's context in the Bible it's quite clear that he is talking to his disciples and telling them that unless they repay what they have been given more than they received but only kept what they received and returned it when asked then what they kept would be taken from them and any who do not accept such a reign is to be killed. Interestingly enough he also then got them to go steal him a horse.

To argue that the parables are not commands because the disciples didn't do them can easily be explained by the fact that they were not in power and the subsequent history of Christianity shows quite clearly that when Christians have the power they are quite happy slaughtering those who do not accept the reins.

And we also have this to look forward to in the future -
"And he that overcometh, and keepth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations:
And he shall rule them with a rod of iron; as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers: even as I received of my Father."

Of course that's after a vast amount of slaughtering and torturing.
Walker
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Re: A nice quiet thread about christianity.

Post by Walker »

Yes or no; you’re trying to say that Christ taught his disciples to murder?
thedoc
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Re: A nice quiet thread about christianity.

Post by thedoc »

Walker wrote: Proper interpretation is found in the meaning and context of the words, not opinion.
And proper interpretation is dependent on proper translation.

"To my knowledge Jesus never wrote anything down, he only spoke and others wrote it down. Part of the problem with the ancient languages is that there was no punctuation or spaces between words, either in Aramaic or Greek of the time. Translation was a lot of guesswork and the imposition of the translators beliefs onto the finished work. For example Jesus said to one of the criminals "Itellyoutodayyouwillbewithmeinparadise", where do you put the spaces and punctuation, "I tell you, today you will be with me in paradise." or "I tell you today, you will be with me in paradise." slight difference in the meaning. For myself, I favor the latter as Jesus didn't go to paradise on Fri. when it was spoken.

Also I play the 1st movement of Beethoven's "Moonlight Sonata" on piano, yet Beethoven never wrote a "Moonlight Sonata" he wrote "A Sonata in the form of a Fantasy", the name "Moonlight" wasn't applied till 4 years after Beethoven died. I have been playing the piece for a long time, and to me it has started to sound like a rainstorm with thunder, so that is the way I have been playing it. I can't help wondering how much the playing has been influenced by the name that has been applied, as opposed to how Beethoven originally envisioned the piece. Of course each player must follow their own view of the music, the written work is only a guide, and not a concretely dictated means of how to play the piece.
thedoc
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Re: A nice quiet thread about christianity.

Post by thedoc »

Arising_uk wrote: To argue that the parables are not commands
The parables were made up stories told to illustrate a point, they were not meant to be taken literally.
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