A nice quiet thread about christianity.

Is there a God? If so, what is She like?

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Walker
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Re: A nice quiet thread about christianity.

Post by Walker »

thedoc wrote:
Walker wrote: Proper interpretation is found in the meaning and context of the words, not opinion.
And proper interpretation is dependent on proper translation.

"To my knowledge Jesus never wrote anything down, he only spoke and others wrote it down. Part of the problem with the ancient languages is that there was no punctuation or spaces between words, either in Aramaic or Greek of the time. Translation was a lot of guesswork and the imposition of the translators beliefs onto the finished work. For example Jesus said to one of the criminals "Itellyoutodayyouwillbewithmeinparadise", where do you put the spaces and punctuation, "I tell you, today you will be with me in paradise." or "I tell you today, you will be with me in paradise." slight difference in the meaning. For myself, I favor the latter as Jesus didn't go to paradise on Fri. when it was spoken.

Also I play the 1st movement of Beethoven's "Moonlight Sonata" on piano, yet Beethoven never wrote a "Moonlight Sonata" he wrote "A Sonata in the form of a Fantasy", the name "Moonlight" wasn't applied till 4 years after Beethoven died. I have been playing the piece for a long time, and to me it has started to sound like a rainstorm with thunder, so that is the way I have been playing it. I can't help wondering how much the playing has been influenced by the name that has been applied, as opposed to how Beethoven originally envisioned the piece. Of course each player must follow their own view of the music, the written work is only a guide, and not a concretely dictated means of how to play the piece.
Viva la holistic, contextual teaching.

People interpret the US Constitution in lots of ways, too.
However, the proper interpretation is in light of the Declaration of Independence.
Walker
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Re: A nice quiet thread about christianity.

Post by Walker »

thedoc wrote: Also I play the 1st movement of Beethoven's "Moonlight Sonata" on piano ...
(Now that you saw the reply, edited out for relevance. And if you didn't, tough T)
Walker
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Re: A nice quiet thread about christianity.

Post by Walker »

This fella could very well convert some folks to Christianity.

Rev. Wright; God Damn America
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ix-AMYos0Js
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Arising_uk
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Re: A nice quiet thread about christianity.

Post by Arising_uk »

Walker wrote:Yes or no; you’re trying to say that Christ taught his disciples to murder?
No, I'm saying that the Bible is slightly ambiguous on the matter and if one is allowed to also interpret the OT then yes many will find such a justification as they'll say it won't be murder and 'God' condones it. I'm also saying that at the end they expect to be slaughtering billions of us if we don't take the reins. I'm saying that Christians appear to have killed and murdered many throughout history and if you say that they weren't Christians then I wonder how the 'Christians' decide this as they clearly believed they were and were doing 'God's' work.
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Arising_uk
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Re: A nice quiet thread about christianity.

Post by Arising_uk »

Walker wrote:This fella could very well convert some folks to Christianity. ...
This bloke can do it quicker -
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W-i_9DOCsEY
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Arising_uk
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Re: A nice quiet thread about christianity.

Post by Arising_uk »

thedoc wrote:The parables were made up stories told to illustrate a point, they were not meant to be taken literally.
And the point?
thedoc
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Re: A nice quiet thread about christianity.

Post by thedoc »

Arising_uk wrote:
thedoc wrote:The parables were made up stories told to illustrate a point, they were not meant to be taken literally.
And the point?
The point is that you were taking the statements in the parables as if they were to be taken literally and arguing that Jesus told his disciples to commit murder, which he did not, he was telling them what others might do under certain circumstances.

You sound like the member of a congregation when confronted with the statement that parables were made up stories, accused the presenter of calling Jesus a liar.
thedoc
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Re: A nice quiet thread about christianity.

Post by thedoc »

thedoc wrote: And proper interpretation is dependent on proper translation.

Part of the problem with the ancient languages is that there was no punctuation or spaces between words, either in Aramaic or Greek of the time. Translation was a lot of guesswork and the imposition of the translators beliefs onto the finished work.

Beethoven never wrote a "Moonlight Sonata" he wrote "A Sonata in the form of a Fantasy", the name "Moonlight" wasn't applied till 4 years after Beethoven died.
That is the relevant part.
Walker
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Re: A nice quiet thread about christianity.

Post by Walker »

Arising_uk wrote:
Walker wrote:This fella could very well convert some folks to Christianity. ...
This bloke can do it quicker -
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W-i_9DOCsEY
Here’s another fooler that doesn’t encourage folks to hate and denigrate, unlike President Obama’s hate-filled, anti-American mentor.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e_Ql_7NCk0o
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Arising_uk
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Re: A nice quiet thread about christianity.

Post by Arising_uk »

thedoc wrote:The point is that you were taking the statements in the parables as if they were to be taken literally and arguing that Jesus told his disciples to commit murder, which he did not, he was telling them what others might do under certain circumstances. ...
No literally a parable is to give you the point and the point was not what others do but what you should do in the situation described as tho' you were the other.
You sound like the member of a congregation when confronted with the statement that parables were made up stories, accused the presenter of calling Jesus a liar.
Doubt I'll ever be a member of a congregation.
thedoc
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Re: A nice quiet thread about christianity.

Post by thedoc »

Arising_uk wrote: No literally a parable is to give you the point and the point was not what others do but what you should do in the situation described as tho' you were the other.

Doubt I'll ever be a member of a congregation.
Then you don't really understand what a parable is.

We can be thankful for small favors, though we can pray for miracles.
Walker
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Re: A nice quiet thread about christianity.

Post by Walker »

thedoc wrote:
thedoc wrote: And proper interpretation is dependent on proper translation.

Part of the problem with the ancient languages is that there was no punctuation or spaces between words, either in Aramaic or Greek of the time. Translation was a lot of guesswork and the imposition of the translators beliefs onto the finished work.

Beethoven never wrote a "Moonlight Sonata" he wrote "A Sonata in the form of a Fantasy", the name "Moonlight" wasn't applied till 4 years after Beethoven died.
That is the relevant part.
Without bothering to surf, I reasoned.
The clues lie in the differentiation.

Jesus would have been revolutionary had he dwarfed the brutality of his times with a message of even greater brutality.
- His teachings of slaughter and cruelty would have transcended cultures and time.
- Folks would yell, "Praise Jesus," as they slaughtered in emulation.

Attila the Hun eclipsed the brutality of his times with more brutality.
- He is known for that sort of thing, and for his slaughtering expansionism.

Had Christ likewise been differentiated via eclipsing the brutality of his times, folks would now reference him instead of Attila, or at least in the same breath as the Hun.
- And if he didn’t eclipse the brutality, he would have been forgotten.
- He would have been just another murdering schlub with a dream.

He wasn’t forgotten, but he was distinctly different from his times.
- He is known for that.
- The differentiation from his times was not greater brutality, but rather, forgiveness.
- Extreme forgiveness, radical and revolutionary for the times.

He gave his followers words, not swords.
- He didn’t even own a sword, let alone name it.

Where’s the flaw in the reasoning?
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Dontaskme
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Re: A nice quiet thread about christianity.

Post by Dontaskme »

Arising_uk wrote:
Walker wrote:Christians interpret the OT in the light of Christ’s teachings.

Jews interpret the OT in the light of Judaism.

If they don’t, they’re wrong.
Whose to say these interpretations are correct or incorrect? And who needs the OT as if Luke 19:27: is correct the loons can kill those they believe are unbelievers and they would be christian in this respect.
A true Christian will follow the teaching of Jesus specifically.

The gospels according to M M L & J - Peter and James are the most accurate historical documents ever recorded reporting the life of Jesus Christ - Authors who claim authenticity to that fact that Jesus was who he said he was. These people were prepared to be heavily persecuted even to die for their true reports...even though they were deemed blasphemers.

And remember that human beings are sinners(metaphorically speaking), they are in no way perfect, some of them are full of trickery.
Jesus never once demanded that we live a life of pure snow ..for he knew the limits of the human condition ..he knew that men of the flesh are weak and are a mix of both good and bad. But he declared that what must be obeyed were the 10 commandments...as long as those were not violated then human life would not descend into barbaric ungodly behaviour which goes against all basic and intrinsic human nature.

As for the trickster that were around at the time...who ordered acts of killing other humans for their beliefs...>

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Walker
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Re: A nice quiet thread about christianity.

Post by Walker »

Dontaskme wrote:...as long as those were not violated then human life would not descend into barbaric ungodly behaviour which goes against all basic and intrinsic human nature.
Many Christians do violate them without becoming barbaric, etc. Right?
Walker
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Re: A nice quiet thread about christianity.

Post by Walker »

Arising_uk wrote:
Walker wrote:This fella could very well convert some folks to Christianity

Rev. Wright; God Damn America
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ix-AMYos0Js
This bloke can do it quicker -
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W-i_9DOCsEY
He's not likely to give Hitler a run for his money in style of delivery, unlike President Obama's spiritual advisor and mentor.
Last edited by Walker on Tue May 09, 2017 7:36 am, edited 1 time in total.
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