spirituality is based on subjective experience, science has no evidence against it

Is there a God? If so, what is She like?

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osgart
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spirituality is based on subjective experience, science has no evidence against it

Post by osgart »

what you can infer from science is that a spiritual reality does exist . but it's not necessary to enjoy the benefits of spirituality.

It's a way of believing that is healthy and emotionally sound.

whether we emerge into existence or are created makes little difference.

It's the way of the heart and not just the mind.

it says that we are eternal.

aspiration and inspiration flow from it.
surreptitious57
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Re: spirituality is based on subjective experience, science has no evidence against it

Post by surreptitious57 »


How exactly does science infer the existence of a spiritual reality

osgart
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Re: spirituality is based on subjective experience, science has no evidence against it

Post by osgart »

it don't have too, but it can't refute one being
osgart
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Re: spirituality is based on subjective experience, science has no evidence against it

Post by osgart »

you can infer it from quantum entanglement, whether or not it is, it's still a strong possibility.

by spirit I mean a highly qualitative non physical reality.

simply put we are meanings more than body.

I wish science had more qualitative investigation more than quantitative.
surreptitious57
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Re: spirituality is based on subjective experience, science has no evidence against it

Post by surreptitious57 »

How exactly does one demonstrate the existence of a non physical reality? Any truth
claims with zero evidence to support them must be treated with extreme scepticism
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Dontaskme
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Re: spirituality is based on subjective experience, science has no evidence against it

Post by Dontaskme »

surreptitious57 wrote: Thu May 18, 2017 6:09 am How exactly does one demonstrate the existence of a non physical reality?
How exactly does one demonstrate the existence of a physical reality?
uwot
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Re: spirituality is based on subjective experience, science has no evidence against it

Post by uwot »

Dontaskme wrote: Thu May 18, 2017 11:56 amHow exactly does one demonstrate the existence of a physical reality?
By observation. Physical reality is not what people think. For example, the phenomena all confirm that the 'physical reality' is that if you drop something, it falls. You can make up any story you like to explain the phenomena, none of which are as 'real' as the phenomena. Don't confuse 'physical' with 'material'.
Skip
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Re: spirituality is based on subjective experience, science has no evidence against it

Post by Skip »

osgart wrote: Sun May 07, 2017 12:48 pm what you can infer from science is that a spiritual reality does exist .
From what part of which science do you infer this?
If no science deals with the subject, either to study or to test, either to prove or disprove, then why do you
require the validation of science?
More to the point, why do you need to make any reference to science in relation to spirituality?
I wish science had more qualitative investigation more than quantitative.
Why? Science is doing fine, doing what science is supposed to do.
Religion is doing what it's supposed to do.
Spirituality - which isn't the same as religion - is doing what it does.
Don't you think that mixing their functions would take something away from each jurisdiction?
uwot
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Re: spirituality is based on subjective experience, science has no evidence against it

Post by uwot »

Skip wrote: Thu May 18, 2017 3:20 pm
osgart wrote: Sun May 07, 2017 12:48 pm I wish science had more qualitative investigation more than quantitative.
Why?
Long story short: science is a mishmash of observation, measurement and hypothesis. It is a brilliantly successful, but flawed enterprise, that people confuse with 'Truth'. Some people think that science is in the business of disproving what they happen to believe. It isn't, unless what you believe is demonstrably untrue. The fact that the world doesn't work the way some people wish it would is not the fault of science.
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SpheresOfBalance
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Re: spirituality is based on subjective experience, science has no evidence against it

Post by SpheresOfBalance »

osgart wrote: Sun May 07, 2017 12:48 pm what you can infer from science is that a spiritual reality does exist . but it's not necessary to enjoy the benefits of spirituality.
It's bad to start an argument with lies, the very first sentence in fact.

It's a way of believing that is healthy and emotionally sound.
I would say it's unhealthy and unsound!

whether we emerge into existence or are created makes little difference.
They don't necessarily disagree, only the current standard christian model disagrees, maybe some of the other religions, I'm not sure. My hypothetical creationist model totally agrees with science!

It's the way of the heart and not just the mind.
Not true! This heart thing you believe in, if it be true to itself, is always in agreement with the mind. Lest one be crazy!

it says that we are eternal.
It doesn't say anything of the sort. Of course anyone can find contained within it, anything they want!

aspiration and inspiration flow from it.
Everything that man has ever done, has always been due to his mind, including this thing you refer to as heart.
My two cents. Sorry that it's in opposition, but that's the way I see it!
Reflex
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Re: spirituality is based on subjective experience, science has no evidence against it

Post by Reflex »

SpheresOfBalance wrote: Thu May 18, 2017 6:50 pm
osgart wrote: Sun May 07, 2017 12:48 pm what you can infer from science is that a spiritual reality does exist . but it's not necessary to enjoy the benefits of spirituality.
It's bad to start an argument with lies, the very first sentence in fact.
So, are you calling some physicists liars?
It's a way of believing that is healthy and emotionally sound.
I would say it's unhealthy and unsound!
So, are you saying it is healthy and sound to close your mind to all possibilities except those your physical senses can detect?
whether we emerge into existence or are created makes little difference.
They don't necessarily disagree, only the current standard christian model disagrees, maybe some of the other religions, I'm not sure. My hypothetical creationist model totally agrees with science!
There's a "standard model"? And even if there is, so what?
It's the way of the heart and not just the mind.
Not true! This heart thing you believe in, if it be true to itself, is always in agreement with the mind. Lest one be crazy!
Yes, but the heart excluded from the mind is also crazy.
it says that we are eternal.
It doesn't say anything of the sort. Of course anyone can find contained within it, anything they want!
That's the way your mind works, too.
aspiration and inspiration flow from it.
Everything that man has ever done, has always been due to his mind, including this thing you refer to as heart.
And imagination.
My two cents. Sorry that it's in opposition, but that's the way I see it!
That's cool. Deal with it.
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SpheresOfBalance
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Re: spirituality is based on subjective experience, science has no evidence against it

Post by SpheresOfBalance »

Reflex wrote: Thu May 18, 2017 7:45 pm
SpheresOfBalance wrote: Thu May 18, 2017 6:50 pm
osgart wrote: Sun May 07, 2017 12:48 pm what you can infer from science is that a spiritual reality does exist . but it's not necessary to enjoy the benefits of spirituality.
It's bad to start an argument with lies, the very first sentence in fact.
So, are you calling some physicists liars?
Show me their dialog!

It's a way of believing that is healthy and emotionally sound.
I would say it's unhealthy and unsound!
So, are you saying it is healthy and sound to close your mind to all possibilities except those your physical senses can detect?
He said "believing" not "possibilities." I suggest you read more and type less! But to believe in that which ones physical senses can't detect, as if true, without scientific method or logic that indicates that it might be true, is harmful, yes!
whether we emerge into existence or are created makes little difference.
They don't necessarily disagree, only the current standard christian model disagrees, maybe some of the other religions, I'm not sure. My hypothetical creationist model totally agrees with science!
There's a "standard model"? And even if there is, so what?
You conveniently left out Christian, and that says much about your lack of honesty! So, a liar you are! Glad we got that straight!
So what??? Can't you comprehend anything? Here let me take you by the hand: 'then they disagree.' See how easy that was! Sheesh, some peoples kids.

It's the way of the heart and not just the mind.
Not true! This heart thing you believe in, if it be true to itself, is always in agreement with the mind. Lest one be crazy!
Yes, but the heart excluded from the mind is also crazy.
You do indeed have a comprehension problem huh? Just ask if the logic is too hard to follow! Sheesh!
it says that we are eternal.
It doesn't say anything of the sort. Of course anyone can find contained within it, anything they want!
That's the way your mind works, too.
Now you believe you can actually speak for me, as if you could know how I handle such things. And now you know why I say it's harmful!
aspiration and inspiration flow from it.
Everything that man has ever done, has always been due to his mind, including this thing you refer to as heart.
And imagination.
That's the mind idiot! I don't care what anyone says, the mind, brain, gray matter, knoggin' etc is responsible for all that mankind has done, understood, learned, knows, fears, etc, everything!
My two cents. Sorry that it's in opposition, but that's the way I see it!
That's cool. Deal with it.
I don't have to deal with anything said here, but it would surely seem you have to! ;-)
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Greta
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Re: spirituality is based on subjective experience, science has no evidence against it

Post by Greta »

osgart wrote: Sun May 07, 2017 12:48 pm what you can infer from science is that a spiritual reality does exist . but it's not necessary to enjoy the benefits of spirituality.

It's a way of believing that is healthy and emotionally sound.

whether we emerge into existence or are created makes little difference.

It's the way of the heart and not just the mind.

it says that we are eternal.

aspiration and inspiration flow from it.
I can see no logical reason to set science and spirituality up as antagonists. Enjoy science and its fruits, enjoy your spirituality and its fruits. No drama. What upsets me most is theistic denial of evolution and the ruining of biology as a subject of joy and fascination for people through politicisation. Evolution is part of the most fundamental aspect of reality and it's insane to deny it.

Evolution, gestation and maturation, geological change, planet and star formation - they are all just the same thing, reality changing over time. It's both beautiful and dangerous, whether viewed through the lens of science or that of personal spirituality.
osgart
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Re: spirituality is based on subjective experience, science has no evidence against it

Post by osgart »

non locality struck me as something emanating from an omnipresent non physical reality, two particles instantly affected by one another regardless of distance and with no attachment. through the wormhole was the show I watched. and it to me indicates a non physical reality.

I'm willing to bet it is intelligent as well.
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Greta
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Re: spirituality is based on subjective experience, science has no evidence against it

Post by Greta »

osgart wrote: Fri May 19, 2017 4:51 am non locality struck me as something emanating from an omnipresent non physical reality, two particles instantly affected by one another regardless of distance and with no attachment. through the wormhole was the show I watched. and it to me indicates a non physical reality.

I'm willing to bet it is intelligent as well.
There's plenty of speculative ideas about possible timeless sub-space or hyperspace, allowing for instantaneous action through entanglement. Why should it be intelligent, though? Order emerges in chaos as a probability. Most options in reality are chaotic but eventually ordered states must occur simply by weight of numbers (along with all the variously disordered ones). If we are to talk about anything underlying this, maybe it's the relentless push of energy that drives all this activity? If that's the case, then this energy would manifest in us human animals as the urge to grow and develop - to achieve maximal equilibrium, very broadly speaking.
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