I am an Islamophobe. If you are not, you might not be a moral person.

Is there a God? If so, what is She like?

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Immanuel Can
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Re: I am an Islamophobe. If you are not, you might not be a moral person.

Post by Immanuel Can »

Greatest I am wrote: Sat Jun 10, 2017 8:46 pm If Atheists are free thinkers, which most I think are, then looking for God within themselves, God described as the best rules and laws to live by, should not be a problem.
And yet, I don't see them roaring in to sign on. I hear dead silence.

I'm not sure they want you as much as you want them.
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Greatest I am
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Re: I am an Islamophobe. If you are not, you might not be a moral person.

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Immanuel Can wrote: Sat Jun 10, 2017 9:50 pm
Greatest I am wrote: Sat Jun 10, 2017 8:46 pm If Atheists are free thinkers, which most I think are, then looking for God within themselves, God described as the best rules and laws to live by, should not be a problem.
And yet, I don't see them roaring in to sign on. I hear dead silence.

I'm not sure they want you as much as you want them.
I do not want atheists. While most are acceptable, I have no want or need of them.

Further, the moment the word God is mentioned, atheists as well as most people generally think of the supernatural Gods and have forgotten that in the old days, God was more often a person like the emperors who declared themselves to be Gods.

God was always a person as most of the ancients, before idol worship reared it's ugly and violent head, well knew.

Look up Divine Council as well as remembering Jesus himself asking, have ye forgotten that ye are Gods?

Most people have, including atheists.

Regards
DL
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Immanuel Can
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Re: I am an Islamophobe. If you are not, you might not be a moral person.

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Greatest I am wrote: Sat Jun 10, 2017 11:05 pmI do not want atheists. While most are acceptable, I have no want or need of them.
Well, that's good...because it looks like it's mutual. It seems Atheists are not all that keen to identify with a guy who thinks there is a god, and it's him.
Further, the moment the word God is mentioned, atheists as well as most people generally think of the supernatural Gods and have forgotten that in the old days, God was more often a person like the emperors who declared themselves to be Gods.
One would suppose you might be aware that that's a different concept. The old "gods" is small-g, really meaning no more than a kind of super-powered, mythical humanoid, but not the Supreme Being. "God" means, by definition the only One.

Claims derived from the first concept have no bearing on the second, and it's a category error to suggest they do. They're not at all the same proposition. You can deny either one, if you want: but blending them is just logically incoherent.
...have ye forgotten that ye are Gods?

Most people have, including atheists.
Yeah, see...this is why they're not going to like you. Their schtick is saying there's no such thing as a "god," and you say you are one. That's not going to work for either side.

The upshot, then, is that you Gnostics, just like some other religions and Atheism, claim exclusive right to speak, and would deny it to everybody else. "Freedom from religion" (and Atheism, presumably), you call it.

But you're more religious and more "out there" than most, since you're the only person in your personal cult, it would seem (nobody else has declared agreement with you that you are a god)...and now more exclusivist as well, since neither the religious nor even the Atheist can make common cause with you.

You'll have to forgive those of us who see no freedom in your proposed "freedom." Your plan just looks to the rest of us like another form of authoritarianism.
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Seleucus
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Re: I am an Islamophobe. If you are not, you might not be a moral person.

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Immanuel Can wrote: Sun Jun 11, 2017 12:38 am...
Just a few notes on the weeks developments.

You idea about resisting sharia seems to have gotten underway with rallies across the US and coming to the UK shortly. As expected leftists turn out to riot and assault concerned citizens. -- Either way, win win -- rightists reject sharia and leftists reform it by saying the stone throwing and FGM, etc isn't the real sharia, it's being misrepresented.

My 16 point proposal that includes closing sharia courts, regulating mosques and madrasahs, internment, segregated prisons, and closing the borders to refugees seems to be being repeated almost point for point online and in media.

My question as to if Ramadan does really have more Muslim terrorist attacks seems to being answered in the affirmative. Estimates for the first two weeks of the holiday month range from 600 to 1000 dead which is more than double the rate for 2016; notwithstanding the possibility that the whole of 2017 will actually see a two to three-fold increase of rate of Muslim carnage.
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Seleucus
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Re: I am an Islamophobe. If you are not, you might not be a moral person.

Post by Seleucus »

Greatest I am wrote: Fri Jun 09, 2017 2:33 pmYou have nothing that would do the right thing I terms of judgements of the Muslim ideology.
Can you lay out your concrete action proposal.
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vegetariantaxidermy
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Re: I am an Islamophobe. If you are not, you might not be a moral person.

Post by vegetariantaxidermy »

Seleucus wrote: Sun Jun 11, 2017 3:22 am
Immanuel Can wrote: Sun Jun 11, 2017 12:38 am...
Just a few notes on the weeks developments.

You idea about resisting sharia seems to have gotten underway with rallies across the US and coming to the UK shortly. As expected leftists turn out to riot and assault concerned citizens. -- Either way, win win -- rightists reject sharia and leftists reform it by saying the stone throwing and FGM, etc isn't the real sharia, it's being misrepresented.

My 16 point proposal that includes closing sharia courts, regulating mosques and madrasahs, internment, segregated prisons, and closing the borders to refugees seems to be being repeated almost point for point online and in media.

My question as to if Ramadan does really have more Muslim terrorist attacks seems to being answered in the affirmative. Estimates for the first two weeks of the holiday month range from 600 to 1000 dead which is more than double the rate for 2016; notwithstanding the possibility that the whole of 2017 will actually see a two to three-fold increase of rate of Muslim carnage.
So the UK is the muslim country that you are terrified to criticise for fear of your life because of your 'atheism'?
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Seleucus
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Re: I am an Islamophobe. If you are not, you might not be a moral person.

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Arising_uk wrote: Sat Jun 10, 2017 2:10 amSo we should have given life-sentences to those Irish who used to pass around the collection cups?
The issue isn't Irish, who being Western people require to be treated with a far higher standard. As to those who give material assistance to Muslim terrorist organizations, obviously that is already a serious felony.
So to teach the values of democracy and freedom you'll incarcerate people?
Internment is not incarceration which is a process based on trial and so on.

Freedom and democracy require protective use of force.
So on more helping refugees from war, leave the women and children to die eh!
Tow all migrant ships back. Intern all overland migrants.
Does it ever cross your mind that you and yours may one day be refugees?
I am a refugee.

EDIT: Come to think of it, my family line were also refugees, war refugees, two other times in the last few centuries. I'm not a war refugee, I fled political persecution.
How do you know how much is going on already?
Not enough.
Review all grants to any religious organisation.
No. Spiritual and political organizations can be differentiated.
You appear to ignore that anywhere can be a mosque or centre and the radical imam can just preach there unknown to anyone.
Mosques are known centers of propagation of Islamic ideology.
10. Segregated prisons for radical Muslims.
Thereby allowing them to really get organised and trained.
Together with solitary confinement. Exactly the same tactics used against gangs, which is exactly what Islam is.
You seriously think they aren't using all the drones they've got?
Drones are one of the most effective programs for denying Islamists bases.
Would that include you and yours?
I'm already involved.
What do you think the war in Iraq was in part about? In case you've missed it the yank has this in many Muslim countries already.
Garrisoning in a staple of military tactics. It also importantly provides a base for business and marriage. These cultural bridges are what is required to water-down Islam to the point that North-Africa and the Middle-East can be reintegrated into the neo-Roman Empire.
Doesn't appear to do Americans much good and I seriously doubt they'll put up with others getting a free education when they themselves don't. How about just schools and universities from anywhere around the world, swedes and finns appear to do a good job with their populaces.
This strategy as yet has not been seriously implemented in the way it was for instance following the Philippines-America War. I use American schools as a general term since they are the most common in the developing world, international schools is a closely related term.
16. Philosophy Now online in Arabic.
You subscribe to the mag? As who will pay for this.
Let us begin this project today. It can be sourced by interested parties.
Last edited by Seleucus on Sun Jun 11, 2017 3:58 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Seleucus
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Re: I am an Islamophobe. If you are not, you might not be a moral person.

Post by Seleucus »

vegetariantaxidermy wrote: Sun Jun 11, 2017 3:28 am
Seleucus wrote: Sun Jun 11, 2017 3:22 am Your idea about resisting sharia seems to have gotten underway with rallies across the US and coming to the UK shortly.
So the UK is the muslim country that you are terrified to criticise for fear of your life because of your 'atheism'?
Not sure how you are reading that? I've never been to the UK, no plans to visit.
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vegetariantaxidermy
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Re: I am an Islamophobe. If you are not, you might not be a moral person.

Post by vegetariantaxidermy »

Seleucus wrote: Sun Jun 11, 2017 3:43 am
vegetariantaxidermy wrote: Sun Jun 11, 2017 3:28 am
Seleucus wrote: Sun Jun 11, 2017 3:22 am Your idea about resisting sharia seems to have gotten underway with rallies across the US and coming to the UK shortly.
So the UK is the muslim country that you are terrified to criticise for fear of your life because of your 'atheism'?
Not sure how you are reading that? I've never been to the UK, no plans to visit.
It's just so plausible that someone would be online begging other countries to bomb their own country. The use of 'coming' in your comment indicates something coming to where you are situated. Not sure why you rigidly stick to 'American spelling and usage' though.
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Immanuel Can
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Re: I am an Islamophobe. If you are not, you might not be a moral person.

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Seleucus wrote: Sun Jun 11, 2017 3:22 am leftists reform it by saying the stone throwing and FGM, etc isn't the real sharia, it's being misrepresented.
Yes. I just saw this demonstrated in an article today. One of the Muslim advocates claimed, when defending Islam against the protests, that "Muslims have no mandate to insist on Sharia in places in which they are in the minority."

"In places in which they are the minority..."? :shock: :shock: :shock: Then that means they DO have a mandate to impose Sharia in places where they DO manage to be the majority.

Well, we knew that.
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Seleucus
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Re: I am an Islamophobe. If you are not, you might not be a moral person.

Post by Seleucus »

Immanuel Can wrote: Sun Jun 11, 2017 4:31 am
Seleucus wrote: Sun Jun 11, 2017 3:22 am leftists reform it by saying the stone throwing and FGM, etc isn't the real sharia, it's being misrepresented.
Yes. I just saw this demonstrated in an article today. One of the Muslim advocates claimed, when defending Islam against the protests, that "Muslims have no mandate to insist on Sharia in places in which they are in the minority."

"In places in which they are the minority..."? :shock: :shock: :shock: Then that means they DO have a mandate to impose Sharia in places where they DO manage to be the majority.

Well, we knew that.
In Egypt the Muslim Brotherhood apparently have a slogan, "give us one election (and there will never be another)".
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Immanuel Can
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Re: I am an Islamophobe. If you are not, you might not be a moral person.

Post by Immanuel Can »

Seleucus wrote: Sun Jun 11, 2017 6:38 am In Egypt the Muslim Brotherhood apparently have a slogan, "give us one election (and there will never be another)".
Wow. Well, you can't put it more plainly than that, can you?
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Greatest I am
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Re: I am an Islamophobe. If you are not, you might not be a moral person.

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Immanuel Can wrote: Sun Jun 11, 2017 12:38 am [
quote="Greatest I am" post_id=316052 time=1497132349 user_id=4303]I do not want atheists. While most are acceptable, I have no want or need of them.
Well, that's good...because it looks like it's mutual. It seems Atheists are not all that keen to identify with a guy who thinks there is a god, and it's him.
Correct, as they are not well versed in the esoteric mysticism of religions. They just think of God as supernatural.


One would suppose you might be aware that that's a different concept. The old "gods" is small-g, really meaning no more than a kind of super-powered, mythical humanoid, but not the Supreme Being. "God" means, by definition the only One.


In one mind, there can only be one God. That God defined as whatever one believes to be the ideal philosophy or ideology.
Claims derived from the first concept have no bearing on the second, and it's a category error to suggest they do. They're not at all the same proposition. You can deny either one, if you want: but blending them is just logically incoherent.
As above so below tells us that theology and philosophy seek the same ends. That being the best rules and laws to live by. To meld the two just shows, in esoteric ecumenist terms, that wisdom can be found anywhere. You migh know that most religionists have found better justice in philosophy as they live under more moral secular laws than their theistic laws.
...have ye forgotten that ye are Gods?

Most people have, including atheists.
Yeah, see...this is why they're not going to like you. Their schtick is saying there's no such thing as a "god," and you say you are one. That's not going to work for either side.
If they keep to a supernatural definition, you are correct.

If they recognize that God was always a person, then you are not correct.
The upshot, then, is that you Gnostics, just like some other religions and Atheism, claim exclusive right to speak, and would deny it to everybody else. "Freedom from religion" (and Atheism, presumably), you call it.
That is not correct.
But you're more religious and more "out there" than most, since you're the only person in your personal cult, it would seem (nobody else has declared agreement with you that you are a god)...and now more exclusivist as well, since neither the religious nor even the Atheist can make common cause with you.
That is not surprising as a Gnostic Christian is a lonely road. All those you mention have hated us because we fight the human control organizations instead of kowtowing to them.

To become a Gnostic Christian is to shed all control yokes and follow our internal God.
You'll have to forgive those of us who see no freedom in your proposed "freedom." Your plan just looks to the rest of us like another form of authoritarianism.
[/
quote]

It is, but it is yourself that become the authority. That is what most people are afraid of and that is why they are sheeple while Gnostic Christians are goats.

All scripture represent what happens in our minds and that is why literal reading is foolish.

There is no supernatural content in our minds and that is why all are wrong who believe and define God as a supernatural entity.

Regards
DL
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Greatest I am
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Re: I am an Islamophobe. If you are not, you might not be a moral person.

Post by Greatest I am »

Seleucus wrote: Sun Jun 11, 2017 3:23 am
Greatest I am wrote: Fri Jun 09, 2017 2:33 pmYou have nothing that would do the right thing I terms of judgements of the Muslim ideology.
Can you lay out your concrete action proposal.
Religions are given respect they do not deserve.

Governments should convene a conference to analyse all the religions and declare which they think more worthy and only support the worthiest.

Over time the populations will be able to analyse what such a commission would find and hopefully act on it.

We cannot rid ourselves of religions. We can only hope to reform the worst, which today is Islam.

The war needs to be a war of words and ideologies, not bodies.

Regards
DL
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Immanuel Can
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Re: I am an Islamophobe. If you are not, you might not be a moral person.

Post by Immanuel Can »

Greatest I am wrote: Sun Jun 11, 2017 3:14 pm
Immanuel Can wrote: Sun Jun 11, 2017 12:38 am Well, that's good...because it looks like it's mutual. It seems Atheists are not all that keen to identify with a guy who thinks there is a god, and it's him.
Correct, as they are not well versed in the esoteric mysticism of religions. They just think of God as supernatural.
Yes. And so does everybody but you, apparently. When one refers to a concept (presumably to communicate something), it's a good idea to use the same concept as everybody else in the world is using. Otherwise, you're likely to be misunderstood, and it won't be their fault...it'll be the speaker's. After all, people have no obligation to understand you if what you're using is not a language they can even recognize. And when you change their words to mean something "esoteric," then you've simply misled them.
In one mind, there can only be one God. That God defined as whatever one believes to be the ideal philosophy or ideology.
This is what I mean. Nobody else thinks that this is what "God" means. Only you do. So to whom are you able to speak, so long as you abuse the concept? :shock:
As above so below tells us that theology and philosophy seek the same ends. That being the best rules and laws to live by.
Nope. That's called "Ethics," and it's only one department of either discipline. Moreover, it's a second-level department, one that can only derive answers from things like Metaphysics (in philosophy), and The Nature of God (in theology), but which cannot produce any rational answers without those first-level concerns being addressed first.
If they recognize that God was always a person, then you are not correct.
They don't. Atheists don't believe in gods, wherever you try to tuck them away. That's the problem. You tried to "call them over" to your side, and then failed to notice that they weren't coming.
That is not correct.
It would have to be. You declared that only people of your kind deserve "freedom of religion." That rules out the Atheists, along with everybody else. They are not your kind. And they won't like you rewriting their script for them, saying that they secretly believe that they ARE gods.
Gnostic Christian is a lonely road.
There's no such thing as a "Gnostic Christian," anymore than there's a legless quadruped: the noun in your phrase is a contradiction of the adjective. I've pointed that out before, but you seem to have missed it. This is what I mean by you needing to use language in ways that normal usage recognizes. Without it, you'll just miscommunicate constantly.
All those you mention have hated us because we fight the human control organizations instead of kowtowing to them.
Actually, if you ask me, your view seems rather unthreatening to Western consumerism. The worship of self is the stock in trade in the modern West, I would say. I doubt anybody's soon going to be knocking down your door to arrest you, on the one hand, or awarding you medals for philosophical daring on the other. Everybody wants to believe that they are the centre of the universe.

The problem, of course, is that the universe simply can't have a plurality of centres. There can only be one. Thus, an awful lot of people will turn out to be wrong about being as important as they think they are.

It is, but it is yourself that become the authority. That is what most people are afraid of and that is why they are sheeple while Gnostic Christians are goats.
Well, you can be a goat if you wish. But if you had really read the Bible, you'd know what happens to the metaphorical "goats." :shock: (Matt. 25:46)
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